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  #81  
Old 21.05.2010, 15:20
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

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My guess about half a million give or take 450k, now stop asking stupid questions, you're only worth what somebody is willing to pay you and if you're not happy with it, don't take the job and find something else !

Waiter for instance although this takes some level of inteligence
Hmm, I always thought there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. No exception here.

You know how much they pay for chemist after graduation in my country. 350 CHF/month (gross) for the first 3 months, after 560 CHF (+/- 20% depending on the city). That's ridiculous misunderstanding not money. On a PhD you can get circa 400 CHF, and on European projects 1400 CHF/month (net). You can survive here for 350 CHF living on the edge of poverty. As you see, you won't save here much.
I've made first decision - I move out from my country at least for few years.


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...you're only worth what somebody is willing to pay you and if you're not happy with it, don't take the job and find something else !
So I did, as you've read above. I didn't event bother to fight for that job. Maybe you're not the right person to ask, cause you sound like you've never heard word "negotiation". I don't have exact salary I want to have. I just want to get as much as I can. Currently, there are 2 possibilities and both I wound accept to do with smile on my face.
If I say on the interview 80 k, which might be way to much for them, they can look at me like I came from Mars and say "we will call you back, thank you". If the average minimum for someone like me in such company is like 60 k CHF, even in the worst scenario company is better that PhD (with 40 k CHF) in my situation. And what I want to avoid is to suggest salary lower than this assumed average minimum. They would be probably thrilled to hire me if I would suggest 50 k CHF in the case described above.

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Waiter for instance although this takes some level of inteligence
I leave this with no comment:|

Ehh, I wanted to be polite, but unfortunately I have allergy to human stupidity and I don't like when someone offends me.
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  #82  
Old 22.05.2010, 17:04
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

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Hmm, I always thought there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. No exception here.

You know how much they pay for chemist after graduation in my country. 350 CHF/month (gross) for the first 3 months, after 560 CHF (+/- 20% depending on the city). That's ridiculous misunderstanding not money. On a PhD you can get circa 400 CHF, and on European projects 1400 CHF/month (net). You can survive here for 350 CHF living on the edge of poverty. As you see, you won't save here much.
I've made first decision - I move out from my country at least for few years.




So I did, as you've read above. I didn't event bother to fight for that job. Maybe you're not the right person to ask, cause you sound like you've never heard word "negotiation". I don't have exact salary I want to have. I just want to get as much as I can. Currently, there are 2 possibilities and both I wound accept to do with smile on my face.
If I say on the interview 80 k, which might be way to much for them, they can look at me like I came from Mars and say "we will call you back, thank you". If the average minimum for someone like me in such company is like 60 k CHF, even in the worst scenario company is better that PhD (with 40 k CHF) in my situation. And what I want to avoid is to suggest salary lower than this assumed average minimum. They would be probably thrilled to hire me if I would suggest 50 k CHF in the case described above.



I leave this with no comment:|

Ehh, I wanted to be polite, but unfortunately I have allergy to human stupidity and I don't like when someone offends me.
What are you taking for your allergy Baseltown ?
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  #83  
Old 22.05.2010, 18:46
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

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What are you taking for your allergy Baseltown ?
What's the betting they are French, and the only cure for that is nuking from orbit..... it's the only way to be sure
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Old 22.05.2010, 20:04
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

A PhD is not a ticket to riches. For example, in pharma companies staff with MBAs generally earn more than staff with PhDs. Whilst advanced degrees are not to be sneered at, business (making money) is best learnt in the School of Hard Knocks.

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That's not a fair question. The more appropriate question would be if someone chooses to take a job in one's field as opposed to doing a PhD in this field and then entering the job market, who wins out. Usually, it is the former. Of course this is moot if one REQUIRES a PhD for one's career (Academia, sometimes research, ...)

Regardless, some people do PhDs for the intellectual achievement and not for future salary considerations.
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  #85  
Old 22.05.2010, 23:58
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

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What's the betting they are French, and the only cure for that is nuking from orbit..... it's the only way to be sure
I'm not very fond of French either. They could spare some time to learn English, yet I think you're exaggerating a bit

Hope, this will be the last offtopic for other user's sake.
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  #86  
Old 26.05.2010, 21:26
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

I have been living in CH for 5 months, comparing the 40K a year to my friends salaries whom work in different fields and none of them has a PhD or Masters that offer is a slap in the face. Even if you would be desperate, you could not live well on that. If you value your years of studying. Do not take it. Almost anyone can walk into a retail store get a job an earn as much, why would you sell yourself so low?

Now, if I was offered 40K right now, I would probably go for it. But my wife has a job too so that wouldn't be the only paycheck coming in.
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Old 27.05.2010, 00:05
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

Science graduates (without PhD) may earn up to CHF 80,000 as a starting salary in a full-time job in Basel. CHF 40,000 p.a. sounds more like a stipend than a salary - welfare benefits are almost accessible at that salary level (at least below CHF 35,000 p.a.)

Of course, once the OP has the PhD award the OP will have access to financially rewarding jobs. Hopefully, the University assists the OP with things like housing (2 rooms are enough for a single person and is achievable in Basel for CHF 1000 per month) or health insurance (the other big fixed expense in Switzerland).

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I have been living in CH for 5 months, comparing the 40K a year to my friends salaries whom work in different fields and none of them has a PhD or Masters that offer is a slap in the face. Even if you would be desperate, you could not live well on that. If you value your years of studying. Do not take it. Almost anyone can walk into a retail store get a job an earn as much, why would you sell yourself so low?

Now, if I was offered 40K right now, I would probably go for it. But my wife has a job too so that wouldn't be the only paycheck coming in.
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Old 27.05.2010, 02:19
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

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I have been living in CH for 5 months, comparing the 40K a year to my friends salaries whom work in different fields and none of them has a PhD or Masters that offer is a slap in the face. Even if you would be desperate, you could not live well on that. If you value your years of studying. Do not take it. Almost anyone can walk into a retail store get a job an earn as much, why would you sell yourself so low?

Now, if I was offered 40K right now, I would probably go for it. But my wife has a job too so that wouldn't be the only paycheck coming in.
You need to understand earning potential.

You also need to understand people not doing everything for money. You can only get so far with just a bachelors or a masters degree in a lot of research fields in science. Some people are an exception to the rule, but most companies would like their scientists to have 'Dr.' on their business cards. And in academia you won't get passed technician with only a bachelors. If you are happy with that then fine, I'm not judging.
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  #89  
Old 27.05.2010, 02:33
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

Chrisvega, this salary is for someone WHILE STUDYING to get their PhD, not someone looking for work who already has that qualification.
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Old 27.05.2010, 09:18
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

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Hmm, I always thought there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. ...
And a whole load of inquisitive idiots.
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  #91  
Old 27.05.2010, 09:39
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

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A PhD is 60% not for your convenience and not because it's part-time but rather because you are being trained and you will come away from it with a doctoral qualification and supposedly, much greater marketability and potential. You "guess" you will be expected to work 100%. You guess right. And beyond.

I was a 72% postdoc, and I think it worked out at something like 6 hours 2 minutes per day. Do you think research can just stop? Think again.
The question is do you want your degree.

You are right, if you do then you don't stop working just because the time card is "full."

Hell, I even worked some hours on my wife's research and thesis, when she was doing her PhD and they certainly weren't paying me.

Still 20 years later, it has paid off.

Of course the answer to the original question is NO. But, then again, that salary is for getting a PhD, not for making a living.
I would think at least 2X would be necessary for meeting the OP's "requirements."

Good Luck. A useful PhD is easily worth it's weight in gold.
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Old 27.05.2010, 10:17
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

I think the OP implied he has other sources of revenue? he probably is just looking to balance his budget.
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  #93  
Old 27.05.2010, 10:51
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

1. A PhD student "salary" is shown as 50-60% because you are in training. a PhD student will attend courses, seminars etc as part of training and will not work on the project full time.

2. Students will initially spend most of his/her time on learning to do things rather than actually doing something.

3. Students get exactly what we get from SNF etc to pay them, currently CHF 40K in first year to CHF 48K in third year. Anything more needs to come from external sources. It is rare to pay a student more than SNF scale, simply because during a 4 year PhD program, students generally do the work in last two years, rest is on their training.

4. There are about 50 people applying for each post. So last thing people like me need is a student who wants the salary of a professor before actually doing anything! In that case position is usually given to another candidates who wants to do research and knows that PhD is a training position and not a job, and payment is "stipend" not salary.
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Old 27.05.2010, 11:29
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

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4. There are about 50 people applying for each post. So last thing people like me need is a student who wants the salary of a professor before actually doing anything! In that case position is usually given to another candidates who wants to do research and knows that PhD is a training position and not a job, and payment is "stipend" not salary.
Actually, you got that backwards.

That is exactly what you need. People who want to be paid like a professor whilst they are still learning their trade, craft, what have you, are going to self select out of the program. Which is probably good as they are not likely to be serious enough to actually do any work if they spend all of their time "having a good life." Plus people that "already know it all" aren't really useful as students in a PhD program as they don't think they have anything to learn and are disruptive to everyone involved. I have seen this first hand.

Hopefully, this means that all of your other applicants actually want to learn something and are, maybe, even happy to be there.

If it was easy and paid well, then everyone would want to do it.
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Old 27.05.2010, 11:32
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

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1. A PhD student "salary" is shown as 50-60% because you are in training. a PhD student will attend courses, seminars etc as part of training and will not work on the project full time.

2. Students will initially spend most of his/her time on learning to do things rather than actually doing something.

3. Students get exactly what we get from SNF etc to pay them, currently CHF 40K in first year to CHF 48K in third year. Anything more needs to come from external sources. It is rare to pay a student more than SNF scale, simply because during a 4 year PhD program, students generally do the work in last two years, rest is on their training.

4. There are about 50 people applying for each post. So last thing people like me need is a student who wants the salary of a professor before actually doing anything! In that case position is usually given to another candidates who wants to do research and knows that PhD is a training position and not a job, and payment is "stipend" not salary.
hear hear!
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Old 28.05.2010, 22:08
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

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1. A PhD student "salary" is shown as 50-60% because you are in training. a PhD student will attend courses, seminars etc as part of training and will not work on the project full time.

2. Students will initially spend most of his/her time on learning to do things rather than actually doing something.

3. Students get exactly what we get from SNF etc to pay them, currently CHF 40K in first year to CHF 48K in third year. Anything more needs to come from external sources. It is rare to pay a student more than SNF scale, simply because during a 4 year PhD program, students generally do the work in last two years, rest is on their training.

4. There are about 50 people applying for each post. So last thing people like me need is a student who wants the salary of a professor before actually doing anything! In that case position is usually given to another candidates who wants to do research and knows that PhD is a training position and not a job, and payment is "stipend" not salary.
The statement is really solid from all perspective. But there are students who already have got a good knowledge and experience on the problem they will work during the PhD. So for them I can agree that they will just work for last two years of their PhD degree. For them I am sure it feels bad to be so underpaid. And why in ETH starting PhD salary is 70000 CHF? Not a general statement but I know of students in ETH who are not some Sir Issac Newtons and do quite mediocre research to be awarded a PhD. Only reason they got the admission in ETH is because they mugged up exceptionally well during their master studies and got excellent grades. SNF must restructure the pay scale soon. Switzerland will prosper and attract better researchers once a uniform pay-scale prevails in all cantons.
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Old 28.05.2010, 22:27
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

Err... it's prospering now, if you hadn't noticed. Hence the ability to recruit people from outside.

For what it's worth, the PhD students I know here don't generally regard themselves as underpaid. Overworked, yes*, but underpaid, no. We're able to live a good student life here - which is generally regarded as enough, seeing as how we are, after all, you know, students.

Perhaps if you have your sights set financially higher, a PhD program isn't the place for you right now? Just a thought...

*OK, we're not really that overworked - not in my department anyway - but we have to moan about it anyway. Them's the rules.
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Old 29.05.2010, 03:08
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

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Err... it's prospering now, if you hadn't noticed. Hence the ability to recruit people from outside.

For what it's worth, the PhD students I know here don't generally regard themselves as underpaid. Overworked, yes*, but underpaid, no. We're able to live a good student life here - which is generally regarded as enough, seeing as how we are, after all, you know, students.

Perhaps if you have your sights set financially higher, a PhD program isn't the place for you right now? Just a thought...

*OK, we're not really that overworked - not in my department anyway - but we have to moan about it anyway. Them's the rules.
You seem to have misunderstood me and did not address the point I raised. May be as a PhD u can tell how you describe the difference in salary in different institutions across Switzerland. On the other hand I want to do the PhD because I prefer to pursue the field of research. I don't have any problem with 40000 CHF. But what I expect is uniformity and equality in the way graduate students are treated. Thats all....Thanks that you wrote about your thought.
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Old 19.02.2021, 17:49
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Re: "40000 CHF in Basel for PhD"-Is it enough for a good life?

Hi I am from the UK and moving to Zurich. I made price sheet that may be of use to you. This is based on my UZH salary:

https://imgur.com/wTwYBN1

Last edited by Guest; 19.02.2021 at 19:23. Reason: Fixing link
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