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Old 12.07.2010, 19:45
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Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

I'm seeing widely disparate salary listings for comparable jobs in Holland and Switzerland.

For example, IT positions that would pay at least 90k CHF in Switzerland often seem to pay only about 45k Euro in Holland.

Does does mean that IT people are better off here than in Holland or is it just much cheaper to live in Holland than in Switzerland?
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Old 12.07.2010, 19:55
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

please look at my topic about switzerland being expensive and how good it is to earn in Switzerland

Why is Switzerland so pricey?

on the other hand, Holland with 45k eur might not be actually better. more like 'similar'.
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Old 12.07.2010, 19:58
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

The Luftsteuer is much less in Holland, owing to the freshness of the air blowing in from the North Sea.

Switzerland, on the other hand, has to manually process all its air as it blows in from such filthy countries as France, Italy and Germany. It is only able to pay the highly skilled air cleaners by charging a much higher Air Tax, meaning that employers are obliged to pay their staff more to compensate.

Air Tax is lowest in the Hebrides, which explains why salaries are so low there.

I hope that makes things clear for you.
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Old 12.07.2010, 20:15
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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I'm seeing widely disparate salary listings for comparable jobs in Holland and Switzerland.

For example, IT positions that would pay at least 90k CHF in Switzerland often seem to pay only about 45k Euro in Holland.

Does does mean that IT people are better off here than in Holland or is it just much cheaper to live in Holland than in Switzerland?
Skilled salaries are shockingly low in Holland.

Go to Germany. Forget CH. Especially if you have a family.


/GD
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Old 12.07.2010, 20:37
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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Skilled salaries are shockingly low in Holland.

Go to Germany. Forget CH. Especially if you have a family.


/GD
"Go to Germany." Despite the high taxes?

I have a wife who doesn't work but no children. If the decision were purely financial, where would I be better off? Germany still? With higher taxes and lower salaries (from what I can tell), I don't agree that Germany would be the better bet. Maybe you mean that the social welfare benefits are higher - but are only worth it if you have kids and would benefit from the free schooling and other benefits that are given to people with kids?
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Old 12.07.2010, 20:57
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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For example, IT positions that would pay at least 90k CHF in Switzerland often seem to pay only about 45k Euro in Holland.
The difference is not that big in real life.
My personal mathematics: 45k euro is 60k CHF, add 20% overprice for anything Swiss, that gives 80k and keep in mind that 1.000 euro a month gets you a flat worth at least 1.500 euro in Zürich.

I would say 90k CHF will give you the same level of life as 50k euro in Amsterdam. But nothing scientifically proven, it is just my feeling about it after I left Amsterdam for Basel four years ago.

But most important question: NL and CH is not the same life style at all. It is not all about monay.
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Old 12.07.2010, 21:03
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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The difference is not that big in real life.
My personal mathematics: 45k euro is 60k CHF, add 20% overprice for anything Swiss, that gives 80k and keep in mind that 1.000 euro a month gets you a flat worth at least 1.500 euro in Zürich.

I would say 90k CHF will give you the same level of life as 50k euro in Amsterdam. But nothing scientifically proven, it is just my feeling about it after I left Amsterdam for Basel four years ago.

But most important question: NL and CH is not the same life style at all. It is not all about monay.
Thanks. It's good to hear from someone who has been in both places and to know that you think the difference is not as much as it seems.

In terms of lifestyle difference, how would you characterize the difference between Basel and Amsterdam? I'm guessing they are as different as night and day. Do you miss Amsterdam since moving to Basel?
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Old 12.07.2010, 21:13
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

This is why: Cost Of Living Comparison

The upshot is they have to pay 90k CHF to attract IT folks. It's the market...
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Old 12.07.2010, 21:17
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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"Go to Germany." Despite the high taxes?

I have a wife who doesn't work but no children. If the decision were purely financial, where would I be better off? Germany still? With higher taxes and lower salaries (from what I can tell), I don't agree that Germany would be the better bet. Maybe you mean that the social welfare benefits are higher - but are only worth it if you have kids and would benefit from the free schooling and other benefits that are given to people with kids?
In Germany, you can file joint taxes, if you're married.

Furthermore, if you are a contractor/consultant and therefore register as a Freiberufler, you can even work for just 1 client for 2 years, before you have to pay social security (in Germany, ~20% cf CH's AHV @ ~9.5%).

From a post-tax salary point of view, the breakpoint will be EUR100k-140k/yr (assuming Freiberufler in DE against living in ZH - but note that cost of living and income taxes vary widely in CH, even within any Kanton)

http://www.nettolohn.de/ gives a more accurate calculation.

Then comes the interesting bit.

Excluding rent, our cost of living has increased by 50% since moving from DE to CH (Duesseldorf -> Zurich). Our rent has increased by 300% (we now pay EUR2500/mo. cf EUR800/mo.) in both cases for a 4.5 dachwohnung.

Probably, we have the same amount of money left over at the end of the month...


/GD
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Old 12.07.2010, 21:22
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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Do you miss Amsterdam since moving to Basel?
If Amsterdam is your dream city, stay there. There is nothing like it anywhere in CH (anywhere at all, to be honnest).
Many other reasons to like CH, including surprizing espects (Zurich night life is good and Swiss are sexually as liberated as Dutch allthough less talkative about it).

At that point, I would need to know if you are man or woman, staight or gay in order to compare relevant points to you.
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Old 12.07.2010, 21:25
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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In Germany, you can file joint taxes, if you're married.

Furthermore, if you are a contractor/consultant and therefore register as a Freiberufler, you can even work for just 1 client for 2 years, before you have to pay social security (in Germany, ~20% cf CH's AHV @ ~9.5%).

From a post-tax salary point of view, the breakpoint will be EUR100k-140k/yr (assuming Freiberufler in DE against living in ZH - but note that cost of living and income taxes vary widely in CH, even within any Kanton)

http://www.nettolohn.de/ gives a more accurate calculation.

Then comes the interesting bit.

Excluding rent, our cost of living has increased by 50% since moving from DE to CH (Duesseldorf -> Zurich). Our rent has increased by 300% (we now pay EUR2500/mo. cf EUR800/mo.) in both cases for a 4.5 dachwohnung.

Probably, we have the same amount of money left over at the end of the month...


/GD
100k EUR post tax salary is a stupid example to give for IT as it covers perhaps the top 4% of the pay scale.
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Old 12.07.2010, 21:28
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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I'm seeing widely disparate salary listings for comparable jobs in Holland and Switzerland.

For example, IT positions that would pay at least 90k CHF in Switzerland often seem to pay only about 45k Euro in Holland.

Does does mean that IT people are better off here than in Holland or is it just much cheaper to live in Holland than in Switzerland?
It depends how much you smoke and whether your into the hard stuff. If you and your wife just like an occasional toke then both countries have advantage - coffee shops in holland is largely mirrored in switzerland where you will not get stopped for possessing small amounts.

If your a heavy user or a large scale dealer though then I think the Netherlands is your best bet. There is the odd mountain based acid house event but nothing compared to the euro hardcore trance scene in the middle of amsterdam.

We need more info basically. What is your monthly spend on Ketamine for example ?
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Old 12.07.2010, 21:28
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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100k EUR post tax salary is a stupid example to give for IT as it covers perhaps the top 4% of the pay scale.
Not around Zurich. I've mentioned this before but the range is 85 to 135k CHF give or take a few thousand.

See 2 previous salary polls as well...

Salaries (gross monthly)

Salary Survey (net annual)
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Old 12.07.2010, 21:30
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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Not around Zurich. I've mentioned this before but the range is 85 to 135k CHF give or take a few thousand.

See 2 previous salary polls as well...

Salaries (gross monthly)

Salary Survey (net annual)
yes but this is euro net and the field is IT. your going to get 100k plus euro salaries for financial IT at investment banking and not really loads of other places. i'd put it in single figures as a percentage of the whole salary scale.
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Old 12.07.2010, 21:31
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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yes but this is euro net and the field is IT. your going to get 100k plus euro salaries for financial IT at investment banking and not really loads of other places. i'd put it in single figures as a percentage of the whole salary scale.
sorry, I missed "post tax"
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Old 12.07.2010, 21:37
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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100k EUR post tax salary is a stupid example to give for IT as it covers perhaps the top 4% of the pay scale.
I don't think it is a stupid example.

The adjective 'stupid' would be more appropriately aimed at people who do, or would, work for less than EUR100k/yr - let alone do it in CH.

/GD
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Old 12.07.2010, 21:38
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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In Germany, you can file joint taxes, if you're married.

Furthermore, if you are a contractor/consultant and therefore register as a Freiberufler, you can even work for just 1 client for 2 years, before you have to pay social security (in Germany, ~20% cf CH's AHV @ ~9.5%).

From a post-tax salary point of view, the breakpoint will be EUR100k-140k/yr (assuming Freiberufler in DE against living in ZH - but note that cost of living and income taxes vary widely in CH, even within any Kanton)

http://www.nettolohn.de/ gives a more accurate calculation.

Then comes the interesting bit.

Excluding rent, our cost of living has increased by 50% since moving from DE to CH (Duesseldorf -> Zurich). Our rent has increased by 300% (we now pay EUR2500/mo. cf EUR800/mo.) in both cases for a 4.5 dachwohnung.

Probably, we have the same amount of money left over at the end of the month...


/GD
Great information. Thanks. Not too surprising that there's such a huge rent disparity between Dusseldorf and Zurich for the same accomodation but it is interesting that you end up with the same money left over at the end of the month. Wow. Not what I expected to hear.

Wasn't sure what you meant by this, though:

From a post-tax salary point of view, the breakpoint will be EUR100k-140k/yr (assuming Freiberufler in DE against living in ZH).

What do you mean by "the breakpoint will be"?
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Old 12.07.2010, 21:38
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

Doesn't NL still have the 30% (was 35%) tax rule for skilled workers?

Cheers,
Nick
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Old 12.07.2010, 21:41
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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Doesn't NL still have the 30% (was 35%) tax rule for skilled workers?

Cheers,
Nick
It did in 2006...

(For the wider audience: the 30% ruling allows non-Dutch skilled workers, migrating to Holland, to receive 30% of their salary tax free for 5 years - perhaps more interestingly, to opt to receive their worldwide income, completely Dutch-tax free)

/GD
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Old 12.07.2010, 21:42
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Re: Are IT people better off in Switzerland (salary-wise) than in Holland?

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At that point, I would need to know if you are man or woman, staight or gay in order to compare relevant points to you.
Married, no children, find Switzerland a little culturally dull. Wondering whether Amsterdam would be a more vibrant place to live even if, as an IT person, I end up with less money in the bank. After all, if you're not happy, it doesn't matter how much you're making, right?
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