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Old 20.09.2010, 09:43
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Banking work.....rank?

Hi all,

So I have my final interview next week at UBS.

I was talking with a friend recently and he mentioned there is a certain rank within a bank. i.e. IT associate, Associate Director etc

I see some blurb on the forum related to this, but I am still unsure. This is my first experience of banking work, therefore I am a little unsure.

I think I have my salary expectations in my mind, but I am unsure as to what to discuss re the rank. Will the rank have any benefits/restrictions etc? I have 7 years finance/analyst/IT experience if that helps?

Cheers
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Old 20.09.2010, 09:45
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

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Hi all,

So I have my final interview next week at UBS.

I was talking with a friend recently and he mentioned there is a certain rank within a bank. i.e. IT associate, Associate Director etc

I see some blurb on the forum related to this, but I am still unsure. This is my first experience of banking work, therefore I am a little unsure.

I think I have my salary expectations in my mind, but I am unsure as to what to discuss re the rank. Will the rank have any benefits/restrictions etc? I have 7 years finance/analyst/IT experience if that helps?

Cheers
yes it will, of course, and your bonus, and even what resturant you can eat in (at least when I was there)

seriously, if you have to ask then your obviously not at director level.
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Old 20.09.2010, 09:52
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

There are more like nicknames. You do not need one.
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Old 20.09.2010, 09:53
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

I obviously have to ask, that's why I am asking. As I mentioned I have never worked at a bank, therefore I was after a little more helpful reply, I don't remember saying I was a director level.
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Old 20.09.2010, 09:58
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

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I obviously have to ask, that's why I am asking. As I mentioned I have never worked at a bank, therefore I was after a little more helpful reply, I don't remember saying I was a director level.
The serious answer is that it probably isn't negotiable for somebody that has no banking experience.....suggest that you apply, see what happens and go from there. Not sure that building an expectation in your mind that if you send a letter saying - I have worked for 7 years therefore the minimum I will accept is an assistant director position - will help you.

What I would say is that banking industry seems to be more "liberal" with regard to senior job titles.....for example, the guy that looks after my meagre savings in CS here is a Vice President, but is about 25 years old....they seem to do it to make customers feel that they are being looked after by somebody special, rather than for any real meaning. Hence the comment above - "They are nicknames"
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Old 20.09.2010, 09:58
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

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I obviously have to ask, that's why I am asking. As I mentioned I have never worked at a bank, therefore I was after a little more helpful reply, I don't remember saying I was a director level.
I can't speak for IT positions, but for other jobs in the bank, the rankings are usually: analyst, associate, AVP, VP, Director, managing director. or some variation of the above.
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Old 20.09.2010, 10:00
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

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I obviously have to ask, that's why I am asking. As I mentioned I have never worked at a bank, therefore I was after a little more helpful reply, I don't remember saying I was a director level.
Ok. Titles are nothing banking specific. I never worked for a bank, but every company with more than hundred people I have seen has the same concept. Your organisation looks like a tree and every level has a "badge"... the names can vary widely, I happen to know that director in one Swiss bank is by far not the same as a director in another.

In the non-banking environments it is pretty straight forward to see what title you get: How many people are under you, where is your position in the org chart? Easy. In banking it tends to be pretty unclear as a single trader can be more important for the bank than a larger support organization. The title reflects your status - not just emotional but an entire paackage of fringe benefits - how large is your bonus (wich does make a signifcant part of your income...), do you fly business class?...

In short: Yes, they are important, but there is no general rule which title means what in banking. Ask your HR for the documentation... they have it and will explain it to you.
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Old 20.09.2010, 10:05
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

OK guys, thanks for your help.

It makes a little more sense now, but it also seems it's nothing to worry about. If I am happy with the package, then I don't think this "rank" should matter for the short term.

Cheers
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Old 20.09.2010, 10:07
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

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I can't speak for IT positions, but for other jobs in the bank, the rankings are usually: analyst, associate, AVP, VP, Director, managing director. or some variation of the above.
I am not sure but I don't think you get these for IT positions unless they are genuine. i.e. a Director in IT really IS the IT Director and there will only be one. I thought VP, AVP etc was in the financial markets disciplines within the bank ?
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Old 20.09.2010, 10:10
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

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I am not sure but I don't think you get these for IT positions unless they are genuine. i.e. a Director in IT really IS the IT Director and there will only be one. I thought VP, AVP etc was in the financial markets disciplines within the bank ?
I don't know about UBS or any other banks but at CS even the IT guys get a title. And the title DOES mean something in the form of better benefits. Lower interest rates on mortgages, fleet discount on vehicle purchases etc etc... The list gets longer as you go up.
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Old 20.09.2010, 10:10
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

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I am not sure but I don't think you get these for IT positions unless they are genuine. i.e. a Director in IT really IS the IT Director and there will only be one. I thought VP, AVP etc was in the financial markets disciplines within the bank ?

well at ubs at least it was more the benefits that came with the rank, you could be a director but have no staff under you, but you still got the benefits of director. And of course you got more of the bonus pot.
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Old 20.09.2010, 10:12
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

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I don't know about UBS or any other banks but at CS even the IT guys get a title. And the title DOES mean something in the form of better benefits. Lower interest rates on mortgages, fleet discount on vehicle purchases etc etc... The list gets longer as you go up.
I stand corrected, thanks. Ive always been a contractor so have had the rank "contractor" throughout my career.
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Old 20.09.2010, 10:14
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

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I stand corrected, thanks. Ive always been a contractor so have had the rank "contractor" throughout my career.
lol

Ah, the responsible one. Anything goes wrong and guess what? YOU are responsible. The internals always have somebody (read contractor) to blame. I wish to thank you for your services.
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Old 20.09.2010, 10:24
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

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I can't speak for IT positions, but for other jobs in the bank, the rankings are usually: analyst, associate, AVP, VP, Director, managing director. or some variation of the above.
The titles don't work like that at UBS or Credit Suisse. Not to sure about the lower titles at UBS, but their equivalent of an AVP is associate director, then director, executive director and managing director. At CS the back/middle office (in Switzerland) goes staff, AVP, VP, D, MD. In the front office it is analyst, associate, VP, D, MD.

OP do not listen to the others, especially those who haven't worked in banking. Your title matters a great deal, as it determines:
Your salary banding
At higher levels your fringe benefits
Your potential bonus
How seriously people who don't know you take you. Obviously less of an issue once you have a reputation.

You need to get your title right when you begin, as it can hamper your career and earning power. Once you have a title it is typically a 3 year cycle before you can be promoted (again) and you cab only go one step at a time.
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Old 20.09.2010, 10:26
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

Just my 2 penneth from the inside....

Fringe benefits don't really exist at UBS at any level after the crisis. The only status benefit left is the tax free expenses you get at each level. Which are obviously higher with each rank. EDIT: and obviously your share of the bonus pot increases dramatically with each level.

In my opinion you should fight for the highest rank possible. At UBS the ranking system is: non-officer, associate officer, associate director, director, managing director, GMD.

There are competencies required for each level and you will need to demonstrate that you have the compentencies for each level. Depending on whether you are a specialist or a manager.

They will also associate the rank offered with your salary requirements at the interview and then see if the salary/rank/competencies match. You should be able to find some good information about this on websites such as glass door. (I am not telling you )

Also, this is still a tricky time so you would have to be an exceptional candidate. I would obviously do more research about the company, and markets etc, and specifically the banking sector (you have to have at least an interest in the field you are working in and demonstrate that)

With a non-banking experience, concentrate on behavioural and compentency questions practice to make the most of the experience you have had and they can link it to the position. You cannot prepare too much.

And finally, good luck.

Last edited by CS_owns_Zurich_n_me; 20.09.2010 at 10:34. Reason: clarification
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Old 20.09.2010, 10:36
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

Your "rank" will be commensurate with your responsibility

If you're not a line manager, BSD project manager or super-analyst, you won't the the "management" titlw ot Vice President (CS) or Director (UBS)

In IT at least, there has been an alignment between responsibility and title at CS.
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Old 20.09.2010, 10:59
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

Hi All,

I was just hired by UBS as AD and I'm 25 but also a specialist.
I think depending on what your job description is they have to give you a title or not. I was pretty shocked, and very pleased

@country_mouse: Good luck with the interview!

Cheers
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Old 21.03.2018, 01:57
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

Posting a question similar to what is being discussed here. I have 11+ years of experience in IT and have been offered by UBS India. The designation I am getting offered is 'Associate Director'. Can you guys help me in understanding if this is fine? Shall I fight for 'Director' level? Is AD fine for a 11+ years experienced guy? I came to know from various online posts that anyone having 3+ experience gets offered the AD designation (similar to AVP in Barclays). Is this true? Please help. Thanks in advance!
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Old 21.03.2018, 05:29
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

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Posting a question similar to what is being discussed here. I have 11+ years of experience in IT and have been offered by UBS India. The designation I am getting offered is 'Associate Director'. Can you guys help me in understanding if this is fine? Shall I fight for 'Director' level? Is AD fine for a 11+ years experienced guy? I came to know from various online posts that anyone having 3+ experience gets offered the AD designation (similar to AVP in Barclays). Is this true? Please help. Thanks in advance!
Impossible to answer. I knew AVPs (which I think is the CS equivalent of AD) with 30 years of experience.

Quantity of experience has very little (which is not to say nothing) to do with capability and qualifications.
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Old 21.03.2018, 08:41
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Re: Banking work.....rank?

reminds me when i first started working, i was working more back office and had the title of 'trainee' and other client facing trainees had the title 'associate'. some other trainees in my group got all bent out of shape with that difference.

i had to do an internal eye-roll and silently told them to get over themselves.
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