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Old 22.10.2010, 19:13
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Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

Hi All
After much frustration and many dead end searches and attemps Im wondering if anyone here has had a similar experience, can give me some concrete info or advice or put me in the direction of where I can find some accurate information.

Im a non EU national been here for 2.5 years on a B permit
As far as I can tell the B permit is linked to my employer and is renewable yearly
For the past 2.5 years I have been paying unemployment insurance.

As far as I understand one is eligible for unemployment insurance if you have a valid work permit and have been paying unemployment insurance for at least 12 months of the last two years

However here seems to be a catch
If I am no longer employed with my employer does my B permit automatically cease before the current renewal date because it is linked to my employer?

Does this mean Im not eligible for unemployment insurance, despite the fact ive been paying for it the last 2.5 years?

Or, can my B permit be extended whilst Im looking for work?

My employer has for the last 2.5 years told me Im eligible for unemployment insurance and has been making the deductions direct from my salary.
However, some recent enquiries Ive made indiate that Im not because of the apparent B permit issue.
Help...Im so confused!
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Old 22.10.2010, 19:48
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

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Hi All
After much frustration and many dead end searches and attemps Im wondering if anyone here has had a similar experience, can give me some concrete info or advice or put me in the direction of where I can find some accurate information.

Im a non EU national been here for 2.5 years on a B permit
As far as I can tell the B permit is linked to my employer and is renewable yearly
For the past 2.5 years I have been paying unemployment insurance.

As far as I understand one is eligible for unemployment insurance if you have a valid work permit and have been paying unemployment insurance for at least 12 months of the last two years

However here seems to be a catch
If I am no longer employed with my employer does my B permit automatically cease before the current renewal date because it is linked to my employer?

Does this mean Im not eligible for unemployment insurance, despite the fact ive been paying for it the last 2.5 years?

Or, can my B permit be extended whilst Im looking for work?

My employer has for the last 2.5 years told me Im eligible for unemployment insurance and has been making the deductions direct from my salary.
However, some recent enquiries Ive made indiate that Im not because of the apparent B permit issue.
Help...Im so confused!


No permot = no work, they are unlikely to give you a permit while you look for work, sorry doesn't work this way. If you are non EU then you permit is well and truely dependant on your employer.
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Old 22.10.2010, 19:57
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

Thanks for the response!
This is what I dont understand. There is no literature anywhere that i can find which says that non EU nationals, or 1 yr B permit holders arent eligible for unemployment insurance.
There are quite a few of us around, and those that Ive asked are all paying for unemployment insurance.
Even my company was/is under the impression that we are eligible. I know payment of the insurance is compulsory, but how can you pay for something that you arent entitled to?
I also keep getting conflicting advice, so hence the reason Im trying to find something concrete.
Thanks again!
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Old 22.10.2010, 20:03
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

I think it depends on how the employer-employee relationship is terminated:
did you quit, were you made redundant or were you fired because of something bad you did? If you quit or were fired, I really doubt that you will be collecting unemployment benefits if your permit runs out in the 3 months after you were fired.

If you are/were made redundant AND you are in a "preferred" skill set type of job, you may have a chance for unemployment benefits and therefore should immediately apply once you suspect that you will be made redundant (like lost big funding or grant money).

Also, please beware, it depends on who you speak to at the RAV and in what language the local one preferrably!! With some luck, you can collect benefits and look for job while still living in Switzerland. They may also issue you a temporary extension of your permit if you meet all their requirements. There are no guarantees unfortunately for non-EUs, it depends on so much "subjective" things.

It is possible, and in principle, you should receive benefits if you are made redundant, but the issue for you seems to be how close is your B permit expiring to your last day of work. This is a touchy issue and Bern only decides case-by-case (I think!!!)
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Old 27.10.2010, 02:15
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

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Hi All
However here seems to be a catch
If I am no longer employed with my employer does my B permit automatically cease before the current renewal date because it is linked to my employer?
I had never heard about that before... so after I left my job I went to RAV and I have been receiving unemployment benefits since. (Im Non-EU w/ B permit also renewed every year and i think it has 3 years limit)

As for the permit being renewed, I have no idea and actually Im looking for the same kind of information . I have heard we could but I have also heard the total opposite, i.e. migration has told me I can stay till my permit expires but w/o renewal, today I was told I was supposed to leave immediately

I read this in FOM (which is only adding up to the confusion)

"In practice, an annual permit is normally renewed as long as its holder is able to draw a daily allowance from the unemployment insurance. In such cases, however, the holder is not actually entitled to a renewal of the permit."
http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/...willigung.html

ALSO read the following forum
Is RAV support extending your Work Permit ?

please keep me posted...
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Old 27.10.2010, 03:38
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

I am most certain that this is NOT correct.

There are several threads about unemployment and RAV. If you have paid in for a certain amount of time, you will be eligible for benefits. And even if your permit will expire, I believe you are still eligible for benefits for a certain amount of time (iirc maybe 24 months).

Anyway, search on the EF and you will find the info. But RAV can also tell you.

fduvall

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No permot = no work, they are unlikely to give you a permit while you look for work, sorry doesn't work this way. If you are non EU then you permit is well and truely dependant on your employer.
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Old 27.10.2010, 07:51
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

I am no expert by all means but the same week we moved from US to Kuesnacht I met a fellow from Chicago. He was let go by his employer after 2 years in Switzerland. Basically we chatted for a while and he told me that you are elligible for 12 months extension on your permit if you are let go from the company.

This gives you a chance to find another position or possibly start you own business if you have enough cash to invest into Switzerland.

I would suggest you go first to your local "gemeinde" before contacting the immigration services...

Cheers!
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Old 27.10.2010, 17:50
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

From my knowledge, there are two types of B-permits. One attached directly to your employer, one that is not. If you have the one that is not, then immigration will extend your B permit as long as you are elible for RAV payments. This I know from experience, unfortunately it was from 2003, so perhaps things has changed since then though it does not make any sense if you are eligble for RAV benefits but are not allowed to stay and receive it.

Regarding the other type of B - I can not help as I am not so sure how that goes. I agree that RAV will be the best place to get the correct answers and will recommend you reach out to them before going to immigration.
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Old 06.12.2010, 01:59
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

Hi All

Just an update on this matter as I think there are probably a lot of us who are on 1 year renewable b permits that are linked to their employers, and who arent EU citizens.

I cant get a straight answer on this from any source, not the immigrations people, not the RAV, nor senior people within either department. No body knows which I find very confusing.

To me its straight forward, either a non EU citizen with a B permit linked to their employment is either eligible for benfits or not. If yes, of course their must be certain criteria that is met, such as the required time limits of paying insurance etc. Despite posing this question many times, the answer is We dont know.

In my case I have applied for the insurance, yet it seems that there is no criteria that I am awaer of against which this will be assesssed. And if there is, no body can seem to tell me what it is.

I find this quite disturbing that one can contribute to the unemployment insurance for the otherwise required time, yet not ever actually be ever entitled to claim such uninsurance. In essence, it isnt then an insurance, but a social security tax. This is fine, but it would be helpful to be told that with certain types of permits that you arent ever actually entitled to claim uninsurance benefits - even if you meet the other criteria - and that you are simply contributing compulsorily to the Swiss social security system.

If anyone has ever been in this situation, or knows something that might help me, Im all ears. I think getting a straight answer on this is something that is important for many of us.

Also, to answer the question that was posed before, I resigned from my job and my 1 year B permit expires in August 2011.

If my situation would be different if I was made redundant or was fired it would also be helpful to know, but even the authorities do not seem to know this. Even the two lawyers I have spoken to on this subject do not seem to know the answer. Hence my exterme confusion, and frustration.

This is one of those times that being an expat is very lonely and daunting and one just doesnt know where to turn or what to do, and cant help but feeling helpless.
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Old 06.12.2010, 02:09
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

I do not know in Zurich after having resigned if you are eligible for unemployment insurance. I would guess that you are.

My friend in Geneva was on a one year permit and was let go. The company closed. He was given unemployment benefits and his permit was extended. He eventually went back to the US before his benefits ended.

Have you already applied at the RAV? Usually you will be fined 1-3 months for having resigned.

As to those who say you can collect unemployment and start your own business. Be careful. You get three months unemployment after you start your business and that's it.
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Old 07.12.2010, 19:07
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

I have heard about those cases. So some got unemployment, others were refused basically by the same office (same Regio, not sure if the same office).
So second complained, pointing out the example of the first. The answer was "They were lucky and schould be happy".

So being you, I would just go to RAV, register yourself without too much questioning and excitment and see what happens. "No" you already have, "yes" is still possible. Stay confident.

My idea about permit is - yes, it is attached to your employer (maybe he carries oon some sort of guarantee for you or whatsoever). But it is issued and it is valid untill it expires. Try to search maybe terms like "when permit B expires". If you find nothing about automatic expiration after loosing job, then probably, it does not expire automatically and is valid untill the end date.
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Old 07.12.2010, 20:02
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

I totally understand your situation, Actually I am quite at the same situation, 2,5 years in CH, non-EU with permi B. My Company will go for downsizing next year.
So they will lay me off.

One of The most frustruating thing is after 2,5 years, you can not just collect your things and get on the plane, go back to your country. You must have many things to do and you need TIME which means you need PERMIT to be extended.

IF not? Then I will ask for my contribution for the last 2,5 years. But I assume you already talked this issue with lawyers

I did a small search, it is not so clear situation, because it is not defined properly.
Please let me know if you get a clear answer to your question.
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Old 09.12.2010, 17:04
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

i stumbled upon this thread searching the forum with a similar situation.

I'm a non-eu, working in Switzerland for almost 5 years with B permit linked to my contract. now my contract is up at the end of February, and since our lab is closing, my boss cannot renew my contract. I need to stay in Switzerland for an extra 1-2 months, I'll try to apply for chomage and try to temporarily extend my permit.

But I doubt that Swiss authorities would be helpful.

Anyone has any idea how these things work in Lausanne, and the name of office that I should go in Lausanne?
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Old 09.12.2010, 17:06
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

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No permot = no work, they are unlikely to give you a permit while you look for work, sorry doesn't work this way. If you are non EU then you permit is well and truely dependant on your employer.
I am non-EU and was laid off, and my permit was renewed and is not tied to any particular employer
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Old 09.12.2010, 21:43
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

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i stumbled upon this thread searching the forum with a similar situation.

I'm a non-eu, working in Switzerland for almost 5 years with B permit linked to my contract. now my contract is up at the end of February, and since our lab is closing, my boss cannot renew my contract. I need to stay in Switzerland for an extra 1-2 months, I'll try to apply for chomage and try to temporarily extend my permit.

But I doubt that Swiss authorities would be helpful.

Anyone has any idea how these things work in Lausanne, and the name of office that I should go in Lausanne?
There are two offices you need to deal with, the unemployement people & the permit people.

When does your permit expire? Usually they will let you stay until your permit has expired and sometimes they will extend your permit to the end of your benefits. That's what happened to a friend of mine when his company closed.

You need to go here and talk to these people first. You can do this even now. Telling them that they are closing your office in February.

Office régional de placement ORP
Place Chauderon 9
3e étage
Case postale 5032
1002 Lausanne
Phone +41 21 315 78 99
Fax +41 21 315 70 30

lundi-vendredi
07h30-12h00
13h00-17h00

They should be able to tell you what to do.
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Old 12.04.2011, 16:48
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Re: Non EU on 1 yr renewable B Permit eligible for unemployment insurance

Hello All, I m new here n this is my first post.

Im a non EU national been here for 9.5 years on a B permit (mit Erwerbstaetigkeit) expiring Aug . Since Jan.2010 I was made redundant by my company and my RAV payment will end Dec at age 59. It is very difficult for me to find alternative employment because of my age and my professional told to me by my officer at RAV. My questions are:

1. Will the authority renew my permit to a C permit which I qualified with 10 year of residence in August. or will they not renew my permit and ask me & family to leave Switzerland after RAV payment runs out.

2. My RAV officer told me after RAV payment run out in Dec I will be refer to my gemeinde for helps with funding from the socialamt inorder to live in Switzerland. Is this correct ?

3. Any ideas what my situation will be after Dec, deeply appreciate all response .
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