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  #21  
Old 04.09.2011, 22:36
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

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No, no "private establishment" can set rules outside its premises
i meant be smoking inside its premises
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  #22  
Old 04.09.2011, 22:38
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

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Not in every case: establishments under a certain size are exempt from the blanket ban.

Anyway, to answer your question, I'm not aware of anywhere that forbids smoking outside.

what you say above is part of the federal law, but in all the Cantons (like Zurich) who have their Cantonal Law about the smoking-ban, there is NO allowance for establishments under a certain size
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  #23  
Old 04.09.2011, 22:44
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

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Wollishofener, would you be so kind as to not post on this thread any longer?
Wolli kindly explained why what you are looking for does not and probably can not exist in Zurich.

Shoot the messenger... huh?
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  #24  
Old 04.09.2011, 22:50
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

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I'm talking about the patios of the establishments themselves. Almost every restaurant seems to have its own patio outside.
THE most positive thing about the smoking ban is that it forced the cafés, bars, pubs and restaurants to upgrade their patios I only too well remember the pre-ban times when the too lazy folks told you "oh, it is too cold" or "oh, it is too windy today" and ordered you inside to their smoke filled inside-places.

Sorry, you cannot have it both ways and everything at once. I clearly LOVE the status-quo ! I for ages hated it to be told "oh sorry ..... inside ..." and so love it to be outside even if some smokers are around
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Old 04.09.2011, 22:51
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

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A) nobody is ordered to place ashtrays anywhere !
B) you cannot place signs outside of your premises about saying what things are not allowed
C) it is not up to you to allow something outside of your premises
D) you now speak about Barcelona. Before you make comparisons, please start to check up on laws of the City of Barcelona and of Catalunya
That's also true of other "anti-social" behaviour - many restaurants have notices outside requesting that guests leave quietly late at night to respect the surrounding residents but cannot enforce it.

I guess smoking also falls into this category.
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  #26  
Old 04.09.2011, 22:51
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

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i meant be smoking inside its premises
Sorry, but smoking inside its premises IS prohibited !!
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  #27  
Old 05.09.2011, 23:14
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

Hi Sandgrounder - Are there really restaurants that ask you to leave at a certain hour for noise reasons? You're right, this does seem to be like my idea for smoking at restaurants.
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Old 06.09.2011, 00:38
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

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[...]
B) you cannot place signs outside of your premises about saying what things are not allowed
C) it is not up to you to allow something outside of your premises
[...]
I disagree with this. If the outside places are part of the property of the café/restaurant the can of course introduce a smoking ban there (they have the "Haurecht"). If the outside sitting area is on public ground this is possibly different. But if the restaurant owns the outside places it can prohibit smoking there, just as you may prohibit smoking on your own property.
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  #29  
Old 06.09.2011, 00:44
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

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Ok, well please anyone else list places that might have no smoking rules. Surely, there are some place that don't like cancer.
How about a Vegetarian restaurant..? .. They also don`t like cancer.

There is a large one in Zurich, hold on a minute while I drag out my copy of VgT magazine and look it up .......

Aahhh here it is .... "Samses" - Vegetarisch Geniessen ..... Restaurant and Take Away. Langstrasse 231 (beim Limmatplatz) Zurich.
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  #30  
Old 06.09.2011, 07:08
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

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Hi Sandgrounder - Are there really restaurants that ask you to leave at a certain hour for noise reasons? You're right, this does seem to be like my idea for smoking at restaurants.
No, often you see a notice asking guests to consider the nearby residents when leaving late at night (i.e. keep the noise levels down).

The difference is that restaurants can "politely request" that you do or don't do something outside of their premises but cannot actually enforce it. Personally, I've never seen a notice up anywhere in Switzerland preventing anyone from smoking in the fresh air . They can, however, enforce the rule of no smoking inside their premises and are obliged to do so by law.

You asked the question of whether any restaurants forbid smoking outside and it seems that the general consensus is that there aren't any.
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  #31  
Old 07.09.2011, 11:12
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

Sandgrounder,

You are right. It does seem like the general consensus is that there aren't any. This seems very odd to me that no one has thought to do this, but maybe it really is a death sentence for business here in Lung Cancer land.
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  #32  
Old 07.09.2011, 11:19
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

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Sandgrounder,

You are right. It does seem like the general consensus is that there aren't any. This seems very odd to me that no one has thought to do this, but maybe it really is a death sentence for business here in Lung Cancer land.
OK, let's turn it around then. Exactly how would you implement it and then police it?

What kind of radius around the premises would you make it unlawful to light up in?

How do they do it in Barcelona (your previous example) where you say they ban smoking outside as well as inside?

How are the lung cancer rates there compared to, say, Switzerland?
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  #33  
Old 07.09.2011, 11:32
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

In some European countries the smoking ban is extended to all public areas which includes bus stops, train platforms and other outside areas and is enforceable simply because it is the law of the land, so there are fines if you break the law or as an owner if you permit smoking on your premises.
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  #34  
Old 07.09.2011, 11:32
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

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Does anyone out there have a list of restaurants and coffee shops in Zurich that are totally non smoking? I know that its legal to smoke outside and generally accepted here in Zurich, but I would suppose that a private establishment could set its own rules, right? So, list those places here. I want to go to them.

I don't want to start any sort of long series of rants with this post. I've stopped using this site as much because of all of the ranting and name calling. Please, just offer useful advice if you have some.

Move to Canada ? Smoking in parks, on beaches and on restaurant patios/terraces has been banned in Vancouver, British Columbia.

I suspect this won't happen here for a long time though, if ever.
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  #35  
Old 07.09.2011, 11:34
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

Hang on a mo - smoking laws in Barcelona are:

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Spain's zero tolerance smoking legislation came into effect on 2 January 2011, tightening the restrictions on smoking (cigarettes, cigars and pipes) in public places first put in place in 2006.

No Smoking in Public Places
Smoking is banned in all restaurants, bars, cafés and other enclosed public places, as well as on television broadcasts.

Smoking outdoors is prohibited in places which provide access to hospitals and schools, and on all playgrounds.

The ban also includes the use of sealed cubicles for smokers and smoking areas in casinos.

These come in addition to the 2006 restrictions which are:

Ban on smoking in all workplaces, on any public transport, in public offices, shops, schools, hospitals and theatres
Ban on the sale of cigarettes to people under the age of 18
Ban on tobacco advertising across Spain
Nothing that says you can't smoke OUTside of restaurants or bars.
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  #36  
Old 07.09.2011, 11:48
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

If it is a workplace!
But usually terrasses are where smokers still smoke, not sure how legal it is but stops bars from losing their customers.
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  #37  
Old 07.09.2011, 13:35
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

I live in Barcelona since more than 3 months, I never saw a terrasse smoke free.

OP, can you tell me where you saw this?
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  #38  
Old 07.09.2011, 21:20
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

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Move to Canada ? Smoking in parks, on beaches and on restaurant patios/terraces has been banned in Vancouver, British Columbia.

I suspect this won't happen here for a long time though, if ever.
A simple question. Did the people of Vancouver or the people of British Columbia directly VOTE about this law ?
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  #39  
Old 07.09.2011, 21:53
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

I think there are likely to be more places that don't like you.

AYB

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Ok, well please anyone else list places that might have no smoking rules. Surely, there are some place that don't like cancer.
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Wollishofener, would you be so kind as to not post on this thread any longer?
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  #40  
Old 08.09.2011, 13:04
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Re: Non Smoking Restaurants/Coffee Shops in Zurich

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A simple question. Did the people of Vancouver or the people of British Columbia directly VOTE about this law ?


No, it was the city council, the park boards, etc which voted and passed the bylaw. The citizens were informed afterwards; it is an unenforceable law though, especially on the beaches and in parks!
I hope that kind of stupidity never happens here
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