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View Poll Results: Should a Subway open?
Yes, we need fresh made sandwiches. 67 88.16%
No, I'll take my plastic factory bun. 9 11.84%
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  #161  
Old 04.05.2007, 11:49
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

I think it would be nice to have delis or sandwich shops or people at least willing to make you a sandwich from scratch. Some people have high cholesterol and need a sandwich without a ton of mayo or butter.
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  #162  
Old 04.05.2007, 11:55
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

Does anyone else see the link between most people's pleasure with mall culture driving out the small, family run deli's and stores, and the lack of finding a decent deli to make fresh sandwiches to order? Weird.
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  #163  
Old 04.05.2007, 12:06
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

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Does anyone else see the link between most people's pleasure with mall culture driving out the small, family run deli's and stores, and the lack of finding a decent deli to make fresh sandwiches to order? Weird.
No, I don't see a link. I said this months ago in this very same thread. In the United States it is relatively easy to find a decent, family-run deli / meat provider or a small, family-run Italian restaurant that will make you fresh sandwiches to go. As for here in Switzerland, there is, for example, an award-winning "Metzgerei" (butcher's shop) in Baden. There is also an excellent producer of sausages and other meats in the Freiamt region of Aargau -- they make the best sausages that I have ever had.

I think that you might be referring to the fact that delis, a la New York, are not normal in Switzerland. The sandwiches are all generally pre-made, have very little in them, and are on baguettes. All one usually even seems to taste is the bread. It think that it might be because, and this is only a guess, sandwiches are not really something native to this region. This could very well be why Subway flopped the first time.
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  #164  
Old 04.05.2007, 12:22
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

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No, I don't see a link. I said this months ago in this very same thread. In the United States it is relatively easy to find a decent, family-run deli / meat provider or a small, family-run Italian restaurant that will make you fresh sandwiches to go. As for here in Switzerland, there is, for example, an award-winning "Metzgerei" (butcher's shop) in Baden. There is also an excellent producer of sausages and other meats in the Freiamt region of Aargau -- they make the best sausages that I have ever had.

I think that you might be referring to the fact that delis, a la New York, are not normal in Switzerland. The sandwiches are all generally pre-made, have very little in them, and are on baguettes. All one usually even seems to taste is the bread. It think that it might be because, and this is only a guess, sandwiches are not really something native to this region. This could very well be why Subway flopped the first time.
I agree sandwiches are not 'native' to this region as people seem to have a pretty healthy approach to mealtimes, meaning sitting at a table, warm food etc. That's not to discount a good sandwich. However, the few deli's which do make sandwiches to order are becoming less and less frequent. Whether this is a direct link to large shopping centres squeezing the margins, bad business models or just local proclivities against fast food in general, I don't know.

However, one thing for certain in my eyes is the propensity of consumers to favour large shopping centres and chains having a detrimental effect on those who try to create local, independent business catering to a neighbourhood. Why should Coop be bothered to inquire whether you want rye or poppyseed rolls?

Those deli's of which we write do still exist. There're just few and far between or - surprise surprise - in wealthy neighbourhoods, where the customers can afford the admittedly high prices charged. If you're going to pay CHF11 for a sandwich, you may as well pay CHF15 for a bowl of pasta, right? Perhaps it's a perceived value for money problem.
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  #165  
Old 04.05.2007, 12:22
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

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I think that you might be referring to the fact that delis, a la New York, are not normal in Switzerland. The sandwiches are all generally pre-made, have very little in them, and are on baguettes. All one usually even seems to taste is the bread. It think that it might be because, and this is only a guess, sandwiches are not really something native to this region. This could very well be why Subway flopped the first time.
While I haven't seen traditional US- style deli sandwiches, I've been to a few great paninotecas that make panini to order with ingredients I choose. It isn't all "bland grocery story sandwich blah blah GHERKINS oh god kill it with fire" type stuff as this thread, and the poll attached to it implies.

Like you said, this is a different country. They eat different things. It's far less of a hurry-up-and-eat type of culture than the US is for instance. I've never had more than a half hour lunch break there, so one can understand the popularity of the sandwich. That being said, I'd be happy to see someone open a deli sandwich shop, I'd eat there in a heartbeat. But that's a far, far cry from Subway. If I wanted to be surrounded by sub-par American chain restaurants, I'd have moved to London.
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  #166  
Old 04.05.2007, 12:22
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

Subway in Zurich have now taken down all the signs and it looks as dead as a roadkill dingo in there. Looks like we'll have to wait... it was soooo close to where I work too.
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  #167  
Old 04.05.2007, 12:31
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

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Very nice, Subway's really coming back to Zurich! Opening will be in the beginning of May 2007....
I go past this place every day; the posters in the widows advertising that Subway is coming ‘soon’ have been up since last December or November.
And they were just taken down last week with no apparent change in constructive progress (still white covering the windows though).
So who knows…
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  #168  
Old 04.05.2007, 12:42
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

I don't know if it's the same in the German part but when I'm in Geneva, I can pick and choose between 80% of my mates, which one(s) I'll meet up for lunch at a cafe-restaurant, just a few make their own sandwiches.
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  #169  
Old 04.05.2007, 13:24
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

ah, I was so happy to see it opens in May but now the delay.. I'm getting hungry!

(as for the antiglobalization ppl, they are not very tolerant. most of these ppl speak about having a lot of choices (in forms of small shops and restaurants and local things) but only want to have those choices that _they like. when someone wants something else, like a big tasty burger, then there should be no such option...things should work the way they want, forcing everyone. Switzerland is big, lotsa green fields, anyone can grow their own carrots...)
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  #170  
Old 04.05.2007, 13:38
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

No one is banning you to have a nice, juicy burger.

What the anti-globalisation crowd is against is to see the same bland chains replace everything in sight, in the name of "choice". When you see the tactics of places like Subway or Starbucks, you understand pretty quickly that their idea of choice is to spread like a cancer and kill off any competition...

Anyhow, it's pretty simple to make a Subway sandwich, buy third rate frozen bread, reconstituted cold meats, processed cheese and douse in sweet sauces...bingo, you got a Subway sandwich.
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  #171  
Old 04.05.2007, 13:41
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

Then why doesn't anyone do it ???? SUbway sandwiches actually taste fresher than any sandwich I've had in Zürich. In fact if I flew to London, picked it up and brought it back, it would still be fresher than a locally bought sandwich.

re: the sweet sauces : you design the sandwich as you like it.

dave

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Anyhow, it's pretty simple to make a Subway sandwich, buy third rate frozen bread, reconstituted cold meats, processed cheese and douse in sweet sauces...bingo, you got a Subway sandwich.
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  #172  
Old 04.05.2007, 13:43
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

LOL...tell us how you really feel...


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the last thing we need is yet another scourge of american franchise to blemish and scar the face of the earth, M*donalds, Star*ucks etc. There is nothing wrong with a unique and non-standardised coffee shop, or a pretzel filled cheese and ham albeit from coop... I wish I could smash the mould of these brainless and degenerate clones that masquerade as choice. I'm so glad this place is at least free of KFC, Burger King, Pizza Hut, Wendy's, Taco Bell, Wimpy, Nero's, Costa's... the list goes on. The sight of Starbucks cropping up all over the place makes me sick.
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  #173  
Old 04.05.2007, 13:45
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

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However, one thing for certain in my eyes is the propensity of consumers to favour large shopping centres and chains having a detrimental effect on those who try to create local, independent business catering to a neighbourhood. Why should Coop be bothered to inquire whether you want rye or poppyseed rolls?
I still think the bread here at Coop / Migros is far better than anything I'd be able to get in the States. I am always shocked at their selection.

The small grocery store here in town -- we're so small that we don't even have a Volg -- sells some excellent bread. I am not sure which bakery makes it, but it is delivered fresh every morning. The selection, though, is not as large as by the chains. A large portion of their cheese selection is made a few houses over, with a few specialities named after the town itself. The wurst I talked about are made to the south in Wohlen and are absolutely amazing -- plus they're not that expensive. My favorite kebab shop in Baden also uses their meat, which is why it is by far the best quality kebab around.

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Those deli's of which we write do still exist. There're just few and far between or - surprise surprise - in wealthy neighbourhoods, where the customers can afford the admittedly high prices charged. If you're going to pay CHF11 for a sandwich, you may as well pay CHF15 for a bowl of pasta, right? Perhaps it's a perceived value for money problem.
The one in Baden is in the middle of the Altstadt, which is not really a wealthy neighborhood. They've won a lot of awards as well.

I think the difference might be that many of the communities in Aargau have maintained their traditional shops, while this might not be the case in Zürich itself. I know that in most medium-sized towns in Aargau to which I've been you'll find an independent butcher.

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But that's a far, far cry from Subway. If I wanted to be surrounded by sub-par American chain restaurants, I'd have moved to London.
Once upon a time, before Subway expanded as much as it did, it was a chain concentrated in the Northeast (maybe even New England -- it comes from Connecticut). They used to make very good grinders / subs. In the 1990s they suddenly changed, the bread became worse, and they cut down drastically on the amount of meat, veggies, etc. I agree entirely -- Subway is not that good.

There is a general trend in the US to "upgrade" chains and try to make them more upscale -- like the ice cream chain Cold Stone. If you're willing to pay Swiss prices in the US, you'll get a damn good ice cream there. There is also the chain Quiznos, which now competes against Subway. I've never been, but a lot of my friends used to love to go there.

I don't tend to do fast food chains myself. However, I don't think that is kills off all of the local stores, nor do I necessarily think that they are all that terrible. Then again, I am an American, and I can understand non-Americans growing hostile to American chains in their own countries. If they didn't have customers, though, they would fold, just like Subway in Switzerland did before. If they expand, they must be meeting the demands of some local consumers. After all, there are not that many American expatriates around.
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  #174  
Old 04.05.2007, 13:59
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

Well - the reason McD's went to Europe and Asia, is that they needed to keep growing and the US was not only full of their restaurants but sales in the US are going down due to changing tastes and better alternatives available. Starbucks saturated the US in record time, and is doing the same globally.

I have not been to a McD;s in the US for years, but will admit to going in Europe often in the summertime just to get a large coke with ice! Starbucks i still go to get my fix of "iced Americano..."

Too bad that In-N-Out hasn't reached that point or maybe they would be in Zurich, too. Pete's coffee, too! Then people would at least get to sample some of the "better" chains.

fduvall

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I just blame them for the sanitization (and I don't mean cleanliness) and lack of character in the world. Everywhere is starting to look the same, with the same awful starbucks and mcdonalds in every town in every country and more or less on every continent. The Americanization of the world

Bring back the mom and pop places, the ones with character.

And we won't even get into working conditions and living wages.

I've been boycotting both starbucks and mcdonalds for quite some time, and encourage others not to feed the globalization machine.
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  #175  
Old 04.05.2007, 14:16
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

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ah, I was so happy to see it opens in May but now the delay.. I'm getting hungry!

(as for the antiglobalization ppl, they are not very tolerant. most of these ppl speak about having a lot of choices (in forms of small shops and restaurants and local things) but only want to have those choices that _they like. when someone wants something else, like a big tasty burger, then there should be no such option...things should work the way they want, forcing everyone. Switzerland is big, lotsa green fields, anyone can grow their own carrots...)
You're totally right! "The" antiglobalisation people are intolerant! Thank goodness someone is. They may also be your best friends; you can be sure Mickey (Don't with the) Mouse, Ronald the Clown and company really aren't.

Come back Hamburgler, all is forgiven...
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  #176  
Old 04.05.2007, 14:18
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

Man - I would kill for a place like this in Zurich. Especially if you could get lunch for 10 CHF. There is a place I like in Niederdorf that does pan-asian fast food (can't remember name), but it can't compete with McD's on price...

fduvall

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As an antipodean, one thing I miss here is international (or rather, asian) foodcourts. A place with about 20 small food stalls, each from somewhere different: korea, malaysia, thailand, japan, etc..., and a common seating area. A place where I can get my kimchi / stirfry squid / sashimi / crispy duck fix. And all meals are under chf 10. I guess that would need a critical mass of people to do all the cooking...

I wouldn't really mind if there was a subway or scottish (mcdonalds) there, so long as they help pay the rent...
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  #177  
Old 04.05.2007, 14:25
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

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No one is banning you to have a nice, juicy burger.

What the anti-globalisation crowd is against is to see the same bland chains replace everything in sight, in the name of "choice". When you see the tactics of places like Subway or Starbucks, you understand pretty quickly that their idea of choice is to spread like a cancer and kill off any competition...

Anyhow, it's pretty simple to make a Subway sandwich, buy third rate frozen bread, reconstituted cold meats, processed cheese and douse in sweet sauces...bingo, you got a Subway sandwich.
the main point is to have a sandwich that is 1. quickly done 2. by someone else 3. somewhere near....
so in case you can make any other kind of sandwich for me that tastes at least that good as subways and you charge the same price or about that, you are also free to spread like cancer and get rich. noones stopping you.
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  #178  
Old 04.05.2007, 15:03
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

As mentioned earlier, kebabs are everywhere and of good quality in most places. One may also find tasty veggie options such as falafels, pide, stuffed vine-leaves etc. and are of great value Someone else will gladly make them for you, too!
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  #179  
Old 04.05.2007, 15:09
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

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As mentioned earlier, kebabs are everywhere and of good quality in most places. One may also find tasty veggie options such as falafels, pide, stuffed vine-leaves etc. and are of great value Someone else will gladly make them for you, too!
The quality of the kebabs that I've had seem to vary. Either way, rather have a kebab than a sub from Subway!
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  #180  
Old 04.05.2007, 15:16
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Re: Subway Sandwiches

Dave, you're being a drama queen if you say that in a city the size of Zurich you can't find a bakery selling decent sandwiches. It might not have been made right in front of you by some gurning youth but it was mae in the morning by the bakery assistant, that's fresh.

Anyhow, another tip, the prawns toasts and smoked salmon toasts at the Migros deli counter, proper 70's style party food but FOR LUNCH. That's decadence...
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