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Old 12.12.2010, 15:46
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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I know a number of people going through this now. I am susceptible to this. These people desperately need a change of outlook, because this kind of depression is caused by outlook. I'm not so sure medication is appropriate for this kinds of depression, unless it is medication that opens a new door to a new and different perspective.
Ok...so now I understand your perspective. I agree with you given that one experiences the sort of depression outlined above. Although, rather than talk about self-esteem, I think self-efficacy is a better term. It's the perception that one can achieve a goal, the ability to be flexible, resilient to change. Serial killers have high self-esteem. It's an empty concept of western society, IMHO.

Just as DB outlined a few posts ago, we do have perhaps two groups of people here. ....the people who experience crises of adjustment or change, often brought on via new environments and these crises can result in depression and anxiety. Many of these cases do indeed resolve with time, with exercise, proper nutrition and so on. A new perspective is a wonderful thing.

Still others have repetitive bouts of depression and anxiety, almost clinical, if you will, where it seriously undermines the ability to function independently and on a daily basis. This latter group may require more intensive treatment, and perhaps medication, although some of the same treatments and perspectives work for either group.

ETA: One thing I wanted to mention. 30 years ago, if a British psychiatrist and a US psychiatrist would diagnose the same patient one would be more likely to say "schizophrenia" and the other "Bipolar". I can't remember which. The DSM (Diagnostic Statistical Manual) was developed as a list of standard symptoms to better organize psychiatric diagnoses. But still they are difficult and subjective. Psychosis, bipolar, schizophrenia blah blah blah. So I think it's hard sometimes to put a label on it. And, because there's a lot of comorbidity - people with anxiety often end up with depression, young women with anxorexia are often bulimic as well, and depressed and anxious and so on. So the labels we use are mostly for convenience sake and for insurance reimbursement, but may not really capture the illness.
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Old 12.12.2010, 15:56
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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I've found the Tao te Ching to be helpful in difficult times, kind of just to make things clear a bit when things are seemingly not so clear.

Also recommended to me (but I haven't read it yet): http://soilandhealth.org/03sov/0304s...030403toc.html - How To Live Quietly.
Yes, a regular read for me too- the Tao te Ching, as well as Tai-chi/Ji gung practice. But I have to say that I have been enormously lucky never to suffer from true depression, just had the blues because of difficulties encountered along the way, like all of us. My heart goes to all those who are suffering the 'real' thing. And I guess one is unable to truly empathise and understand unless it has been experienced, as many of you here have. It is heart warming to read that some of you have been at the deepest and darkest corners of depression, and have come out somehow, to tell the tale and live the life. Hope.
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  #203  
Old 12.12.2010, 22:25
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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I've found the Tao te Ching to be helpful in difficult times, kind of just to make things clear a bit when things are seemingly not so clear.

Also recommended to me (but I haven't read it yet): http://soilandhealth.org/03sov/0304s...030403toc.html - How To Live Quietly.

During these states of depression, people are susceptible to all kinds of influences promising "the answer"; fortune tellers, religions, and even political ideologies.

For me, I found personal prayers to be the most effective during the lowest times of depression. I have received answers to prayers. This can be done solely between an individual and God, without the involvement of any kind of church or religion. If you feel like you are at the end of your ropes' end and see no hope in sight, I recommend you try calling on God to see if you will get a response. You can do this with no obligation to no man or to any religious organization.

I admit that it is hard for me to justify being depressed with the knowledge of God's nature and a sense of his presence.
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  #204  
Old 17.12.2010, 15:35
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Re: Depression Sufferers

Thanks everyone for your posts, it's good to see that there others out there having to go through this difficult and sometimes long journey.

For what it's worth here are a couple of resources that helped me

http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk...overy-program/
if you want to try it out it can also be found as a torrent

and
David Servan Schrieber's Book Healing without Freud and Prozac
(there are great chapter called Enhancing Emotional Communication for anyone who is in a stressful relationship, I would recommend it to everyone though really)


Although doctors can often be quick to prescribe antidepressants (which can provide quick relief but will not help in the long term unless you change something in your life, or your surrounding circumstances change), I don't think there is anything wrong with using them as an extra support to get you through difficult situations (just my opinion, from my experiences)

I've had the added complication of having some trauma based issues, I found EMDR

and this book, Trauma and the Body, to be quite useful


Finally I highly recommend Biodanza for anyone who has difficulty connecting with other people or has some physical symptoms from depression.

I still have a little bit to go on the journey, but I'll get there :-)
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  #205  
Old 17.12.2010, 18:47
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Re: Depression Sufferers

For those in Romandie, 2 very interesting articles in the current Migros magazine.
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  #206  
Old 18.12.2010, 12:19
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Re: Depression Sufferers

Just a heads up

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...aspx?aid=CD945
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  #207  
Old 18.12.2010, 13:35
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Re: Depression Sufferers

and worth pointing out the link you provided is an unashamed direct marketing push you to but their book which they mention further down. http://products.mercola.com/take-control/

Given that the whole article is about brainwashing then they try to brainwash you into buying their complete unproven rubbish I would just ignore the whole thing really.

It is also referring to the US health system, not the CH one.

Mike
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  #208  
Old 18.12.2010, 13:39
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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and worth pointing out the link you provided is an unashamed direct marketing push you to but their book which they mention further down. http://products.mercola.com/take-control/

Given that the whole article is about brainwashing then they try to brainwash you into buying their complete unproven rubbish I would just ignore the whole thing really.

It is also referring to the US health system, not the CH one.

Mike
Did I not mention that it was some what commercial. It is a known fact that the big pharmas pay Drs. to promote medications.

So what's the difference between the US and CH regarding medication
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  #209  
Old 18.12.2010, 17:16
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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Did I not mention that it was some what commercial.
No, you didn't. You simply said "Just a heads up".

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It is a known fact that the big pharmas pay Drs. to promote medications.
Not in Switzerland, with the exception of a very small number of so-called "key opinion leaders". The ordinary GP/family doctor is not paid to promote medications and the practice is illeagal in most countries.

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So what's the difference between the US and CH regarding medication
Different prescribing information. Different clinical trial data requirements for approval, possibly leading to different dosing regimens. Different product names and packaging. Some products that are available in the US are not approved in CH, and vice versa

That's just for starters.
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Old 18.12.2010, 20:44
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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So what's the difference between the US and CH regarding medication
I believe there are tighter controls on meds, and fortunately, that extends to generics. In the US, generics, come from a wide range of manufacturers and generic medications can vary in terms of efficacy based upon batch and manufacturer. I think I said this before, but you have, maybe 2 manufacturers of generics - mepha and sandoz - at least in german speaking switzerland.

I think patients are far too passive sometimes. If you're considering an anti-depressant or anti anxiety drug or pretty much anything, you can ask your physician why he/she wants you to take this particular drug. I know it can be hard - you're sick and often you're frightened. You can ask these questions without being rude, and I mean, it is your body. When academics write papers they have to include their funding sources, and your doctor should tell you the same. But there is that stupid white coat that puts you at a different level. I like that most psychiatrists (that I know, anyway) don't wear white coats.

I read Mercola's stuff on Huffington Post. Some of what he says is reasonable. What I don't like is the fear mongering. I think his stuff is framed dramatically to the point that if you follow conventional medicine you are doomed, and that's where he looses my trust. I like what he says about particular vitamins and some nutritional elements, but this stuff works in concert with conventional meds. But there is no quick fix for anything.

What I also dislike is the subtle stigma heaped on people with mental illnesses. You're not strong enough, or you're being led by the nose by psychiatrists, or there's a character flaw - if you were a little different, you wouldn't need to see a doctor, you'd work it out on your own. Doesn't always happen though.
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  #211  
Old 17.01.2011, 16:28
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Re: Depression Sufferers

How do you cope with days where you feel so listless that you can't find the energy to go and see your therapist? I've already missed work because I can't face people (I'm paid hourly, so the loss is all mine) and I just want to stay in bed, not go out... Vicious circle, I know.
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  #212  
Old 17.01.2011, 16:36
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Re: Depression Sufferers

Poor you!

I have some days where I don't feel like going out, but so far managed to win myself over and get going. Somehow the strength comes from somewhere, so I guess I'm lucky.

It is horrible to be like this and my sympathies are with you.
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  #213  
Old 17.01.2011, 16:42
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Re: Depression Sufferers

I used to know well that feeling.....

even stayed three days without eating because I was just "go nowhere" and I ate everything I could ate at home...

gosh, I'm so happy that this time is behind me now....
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Old 17.01.2011, 16:53
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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I used to know well that feeling.....

even stayed three days without eating because I was just "go nowhere" and I ate everything I could ate at home...

gosh, I'm so happy that this time is behind me now....
Good to hear, Bertrand.

I've been here before and I "know" it goes away again but in a sense right now that knowledge makes it worse - the same sh*t again and again.
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  #215  
Old 17.01.2011, 17:02
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Re: Depression Sufferers

Did you try EFT ? it's something I find very usefull and still use it on several things as laziness.....
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Old 17.01.2011, 17:20
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Yeah, it really sucks. I wish there was a magic wand to make it go away, but as you know.... It just has to work its way out. I do find that distractions help a bit. Walking around the flat, finding a silly tv program or movie to watch, even a segment on YouTube, even staring out of the window.

Make sure you're taking care of yourself and eating properly. And sleep. I had three days last month where I felt so bad, all I did was sleep. Do you know if something triggered this? Something to keep in mind when you do feel like talking to your therapist. And try not to be too hard on yourself.

No magic wand or earth shattering advice, just a lot of empathy. Take care.
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  #217  
Old 17.01.2011, 17:23
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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What I also dislike is the subtle stigma heaped on people with mental illnesses. You're not strong enough, or you're being led by the nose by psychiatrists, or there's a character flaw - if you were a little different, you wouldn't need to see a doctor, you'd work it out on your own. Doesn't always happen though.
I can agree very much with you about the subelt stigma with such labels as ADD(attention deficit "disorder") etc. Unknowingly you are even attaching a stigma by using the word mental illness. I do not know anyone who does not or has not had some issues in their lives. I try to avoid usinmg thses terms as much as possible. often people just lack the skills on how to deal with life, It had nothing to do with how good or bad how smart or not, etc you are.

Many people eventzually workj through their issues and yes, it helps to have some one to guide us through the process. But not some one to fix us.

With social stigma we often see ourslevbes as broken . In the case of depression we feel that ^there is something wrong with us. we thinbk we should be happy and we fight our depression. When we do not become happy then we get more depressed because we are niot happy.

I have had depression but I worked through it. I am not always up and that is okay. I accept it and most often when I accept it it goes away. I know it is hard and demotivating. You do not have to be happy and energetic. Stop putting pressure on yourself to be otherwise.
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Old 17.01.2011, 17:57
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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Good to hear, Bertrand.

I've been here before and I "know" it goes away again but in a sense right now that knowledge makes it worse - the same sh*t again and again.
Hi Kittster,

Give yourself some time, be indulgent and give you this chance to do it a bit. Sometimes we do need it.

When we came back from the US after, Christmas I had a week down where I didn't put my nose outside of the flat for a whole week. I didn't feel like it and it was let say a little protesto from me against the weather, against being back here, etc....

After that week, I went out and I felt good again. (not great, but good)

Could you possibly have some lack of vitamin D because of the non existing sun? Maybe you should take multi-vitamins in the morning and at least one glass of orange juice. And look into those lamp therapy, my friend can't live without it.

Nil
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  #219  
Old 17.01.2011, 18:00
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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Hi Kittster,


Could you possibly have some lack of vitamin D because of the non existing sun?
Nil
Actually many people are now taking vitamin D regularly and seems to help.
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  #220  
Old 17.01.2011, 21:05
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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How do you cope with days where you feel so listless that you can't find the energy to go and see your therapist? I've already missed work because I can't face people (I'm paid hourly, so the loss is all mine) and I just want to stay in bed, not go out... Vicious circle, I know.
I hear you kittster, i think these are the days when i just have to kick myself in the butt, take a shower and at least do the minimum!! Now that I have a child i can`t crawl under the covers and close my eyes and hope that tomorrow will be better! Take it 30min at a time, get up, take a shower, play music, sing to it, see your first client, take a deep breath etc. I know it sucks, you are not alone, I feel for you!!
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