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  #121  
Old 09.12.2010, 09:40
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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Perhaps the most difficult one is when the illusion that collapses happens to be one's ego. The darkest depressions are the death of the ego. Pain and suffering occurs as the ego struggles against its death.

But there is a vaster reality beyond the ego. The death of one's ego allows one to get in touch with this vaster reality. By preventing this death, the growth of the person is stunted. It's quite possible to go through depression without the struggle, minimizing pain and suffering. And it is possible to get to the other side of depression as a whole new person, enlightened by the vaster reality.

One of my favorite prose from Goethe:

Und so lang du das nicht hast,
Dieses: stirb und werde,
Bist du nur ein trüber Gast
Auf der dunklen Erde.

"As long as you do not know how to die and come to life again,you are but a sorry traveler on this dark earth".

-Goethe
Which is, of course, the mystery behind the crucifixion story in christianity.
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  #122  
Old 09.12.2010, 16:36
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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Which is, of course, the mystery behind the crucifixion story in christianity.

Yes, exactly, the same resurrecting power for those who accept it.


Even Monty Python got it right:

And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life...

So always look on the bright side of death
Just before you draw your terminal breath






Last edited by Phos; 10.12.2010 at 02:07.
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  #123  
Old 09.12.2010, 17:20
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Re: Depression Sufferers

Depression and anxiety are often linked but can be separate.
Anxiety is the nervous feeling and always worrying. Constantly thinking or ruminating about what one should do.
Depression is usually a state of hopelessness and can be accompanied by aggression.
Many people are low and then think about what they should or should not be doing. Often fighting the depression and telling themselves they should not be depressed. This is depression with anxiety
A couple of years ago I met a couple of woman from Africa who told me that they were not aware of depression until they came to Europe. We in the Western world have beliefs of what we should be or have to have (material) to be happy or okay. If we do not meet those expectations then we become low.
In another case I was with a man who expressed his depression. People started to tell him what he needed to be and how to be. He said that is not what he needed. All he needed was some understanding and compassion about his difficult situation. He knew what he was suppose to do or should do but could not. This made him more depressed because he was not meeting expectations.
I do not agree with the advice telling people that they should be happy. That makes the problem worse. You need to stop focusing on your depression and fighting it. Accept it and befriend it and it will go away. We can only focus on one thing at a time. If we focus on our depression then and fight it then this creates anxiety.
We do not need to be happy every day
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  #124  
Old 09.12.2010, 17:53
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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One of my favorite prose from Goethe:

Und so lang du das nicht hast,
Dieses: stirb und werde,
Bist du nur ein trüber Gast
Auf der dunklen Erde.

"As long as you do not know how to die and come to life again,you are but a sorry traveler on this dark earth".

-Goethe
I'm only just learning German so this is an actual question rather than criticism. Isn't "come to life again" adding rather a lot to the original poem? Isn't it more like, "Die and become". It's more ambiguous and less theologically loaded that way.
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  #125  
Old 09.12.2010, 17:54
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Re: Depression Sufferers

I would suggest caution when considering taking medication for depression or anxiety. They both can have very serious side effects and can be very addictive. You check out the web to search for side effects. Also there have been books out recently about explaining the effects of medications and what they can do. A very good one is called
The Anatomy of an Epidemic
http://www.madinamerica.com/madinamerica.com/Anatomy%20of%20an%20Epidemic.html
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  #126  
Old 09.12.2010, 18:07
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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I would suggest caution when considering taking medication for depression or anxiety. They both can have very serious side effects and can be very addictive. You check out the web to search for side effects. Also there have been books out recently about explaining the effects of medications and what they can do. A very good one is called
The Anatomy of an Epidemic
http://www.madinamerica.com/madinamerica.com/Anatomy%20of%20an%20Epidemic.html
I believe you. Boy, that's a big font you're using.
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  #127  
Old 09.12.2010, 18:17
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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I believe you. Boy, that's a big font you're using.
Sorry about the font. I sometimes write the message in word and then cut and paste.
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  #128  
Old 09.12.2010, 18:28
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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Hey people,

I'm sure this thread has come up numerous times now, but I just wanted to through it back out there. I'm a Kiwi by birth right and moved to Switzerland in November of 2002. The reason being, ofcourse, my Swiss wife. The first 3 years I absolutely loved, (accept for the slightly anal culture and confining laws), and it wasn't until about the 4 year that I started having mild panic attacks. Over the next 2-3 years things became worse and the Social Phobia and Anxiety attacks so extreme that I wouldn't answer the phone, door, meet friends and dreaded going outside incase I were to be confronted by someone. This eventually became all too much for me to continue to hide and I had a brake down during work hours. I have since been seeing a Psychiatrist, (Psychologist just wasted my time at the start), and have been a Guinea Pig for medications for the last 18months now. It's funny, before I began my regime of hundreds of tablets I had a clearish head and my memory and thought processes seemed to be on an okay level. Now I suffer from very mild and not too often panic attacs() but my brain is mush. I wonder if this is a side affect from the dosage of tabs, or that the depression has now had a chance to expose itself as the panic blanket has been lifted ??

Anyway, just got back from a 2 month holiday in NZ. Met a Psych there and he made 2 changes to my medication and suggested a book "mind over mood", (very good), dealing with cognitive therapy and also suggested that I too begin meeting with a cognitive behavioural therapist. I think that it really helped me being able to speak with some one af my own culture and b:the same mother tongue. We just clicked from day 1 and it was obvious to me that he really understood me from our sessions and what I got out of them. Hence the fact that I am now seeking an english speaking, (having lived in an english culture and the language being their mother tongue), Cognitive Behavioural Therapist.

So my post was really to hear from other people who are or have been in a similar situation. Would love to hear from you.......Thanks.
My shrink advised me to go to a workout centre where they do excercise of every type & get one of the instructors to give me a goal which was just above my capabilities. The idea was a saver. But I'm over 50 so ...............
Whatever, as long as you are fighting you are going up not down. Wish you every success & you have my admiration
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  #129  
Old 09.12.2010, 18:30
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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Depression and anxiety are often linked but can be separate.
Anxiety is the nervous feeling and always worrying. Constantly thinking or ruminating about what one should do.
Depression is usually a state of hopelessness and can be accompanied by aggression.
Many people are low and then think about what they should or should not be doing. Often fighting the depression and telling themselves they should not be depressed. This is depression with anxiety
A couple of years ago I met a couple of woman from Africa who told me that they were not aware of depression until they came to Europe. We in the Western world have beliefs of what we should be or have to have (material) to be happy or okay. If we do not meet those expectations then we become low.
In another case I was with a man who expressed his depression. People started to tell him what he needed to be and how to be. He said that is not what he needed. All he needed was some understanding and compassion about his difficult situation. He knew what he was suppose to do or should do but could not. This made him more depressed because he was not meeting expectations.
I do not agree with the advice telling people that they should be happy. That makes the problem worse. You need to stop focusing on your depression and fighting it. Accept it and befriend it and it will go away. We can only focus on one thing at a time. If we focus on our depression then and fight it then this creates anxiety.
We do not need to be happy every day
Clear, short, & to the point!
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  #130  
Old 09.12.2010, 18:32
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Re: Depression Sufferers

I just want to add that, sometimes, if you don't take care, you can go down quite quickly..... even if you're taking drugs....

I say that because it's happening right now to me since yesterday
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  #131  
Old 09.12.2010, 18:37
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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i just want to add that, sometimes, if you don't take care, you can go down quite quickly..... Even if you're taking drugs....

I say that because it's happening right now to me since yesterday
please care!!!!!
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  #132  
Old 09.12.2010, 18:54
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Re: Depression Sufferers

I only quickly scanned the other responses just to see if anyone else has suggested this already...

I studied natural health back home in Canada after personally being quite sick and generally interested in the area of health and living as opposed to living with disease and treatment, I thought I would share this information with you.

one of the number main signs of vitamin D deficiency is depression. Taking vitamin D3 drops are pretty cheap and effective. The hospitals here in Switzerland actually give you the drops to give your baby for the first year of life.

"Vitamin D deficiency symptoms Vitamin D deficiency may be characterized by muscle pain, weak bones/fractures, low energy and fatigue, lowered immunity, symptoms of depression and mood swings, and sleep irregularities. Women with renal problems or intestinal concerns (such as IBS or Crohn’s disease) may be vitamin D deficient because they can neither absorb nor adequately convert the nutrient."
http://www.womentowomen.com/healthyn.../vitamind.aspx

There are many wonderful resources online if you would like to learn more about vitamin D or natural approaches to depression in general.

My favorite sites are:
http://www.mercola.com/
http://www.naturalnews.com/index.html
http://curezone.com/

Hope this helps. Write to me if you have any questions
LG Jennifer
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  #133  
Old 09.12.2010, 20:05
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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I'm only just learning German so this is an actual question rather than criticism. Isn't "come to life again" adding rather a lot to the original poem? Isn't it more like, "Die and become". It's more ambiguous and less theologically loaded that way.

In the case of Goethe, and his poems, it is "die and live again". As Enaj pointed out, it is about the mystery of the crucifixion and resurrection in Christianity expressed in everyday life, without the religiousity.
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  #134  
Old 09.12.2010, 20:12
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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I just want to add that, sometimes, if you don't take care, you can go down quite quickly..... even if you're taking drugs....

I say that because it's happening right now to me since yesterday
I hope you are finding some help?
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  #135  
Old 09.12.2010, 20:17
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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In the case of Goethe, and his poems, it is "die and live again". As Enaj pointed out, it is about the mystery of the crucifixion and resurrection in Christianity expressed in everyday life, without the religiousity.
I understand that's one of the meanings . . . but that's not the words. The translator shouldn't make more assumptions than necessary for the reader.

Here's someone else's translation:

And so long as you have not attained it,
this, "Die and become!",
you will only be a gloomy guest
on this dark earth.

http://www.recmusic.org/lieder/get_t...ml?TextId=6619
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  #136  
Old 09.12.2010, 20:36
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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I just want to add that, sometimes, if you don't take care, you can go down quite quickly..... even if you're taking drugs....

I say that because it's happening right now to me since yesterday
Sorry to hear that Bertrand - could it be because you are alone at the moment - you did mention that your mother had gone away. Take good care and be kind to yourself at this time.
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  #137  
Old 09.12.2010, 20:48
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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I just want to add that, sometimes, if you don't take care, you can go down quite quickly..... even if you're taking drugs....

I say that because it's happening right now to me since yesterday
Do you have somewhere safe you can go? Like a crisis intervention centre? I know the feeling and am fighting not to give in to it, as long as my mind is entertained with something else, it's fine, but that makes the cracks that show all the more disturbing.
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  #138  
Old 09.12.2010, 21:18
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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I just want to add that, sometimes, if you don't take care, you can go down quite quickly..... even if you're taking drugs....

I say that because it's happening right now to me since yesterday
I know how it is and I sympathise. Take good care of yourself.
I work a lot right now and I know that has saved me from dark feelings.
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  #139  
Old 09.12.2010, 21:19
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Re: Depression Sufferers

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I just want to add that, sometimes, if you don't take care, you can go down quite quickly..... even if you're taking drugs....

I say that because it's happening right now to me since yesterday
Oh Bertrand, please take care. I've always found this to be a difficult time of year, myself. Do you have someone you can call, somewhere to go? Hope you will have some better days ahead.
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  #140  
Old 09.12.2010, 22:02
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Re: Depression Sufferers

Thanks guys. it's warming a lot

I'm used to that now, had a lot of talks about it with my psychiatrist.
It's related to my loneliness, the fact I need to have somebody to love.
It has always been.

It will become more and more painful these next days until I can "crack in tears" and things will get better from there.
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