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  #21  
Old 26.01.2011, 14:18
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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You're not suggesting that an alternative medicine practitioner could actually behaving in an unethical fashion - I thought that was the sole preserve of big pharma.
The important word there is "big", the natural health industry has not reached the magical and unknown value that turns a good industry into a bad one.

Pharma is heavily regulated and held to account, further proof that they are evil, while the natural health industry is completely unregulated and unnaccountable, wholly beffitting their innocent and plucky status.
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  #22  
Old 26.01.2011, 14:47
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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The important word there is "big", the natural health industry has not reached the magical and unknown value that turns a good industry into a bad one.

Pharma is heavily regulated and held to account, further proof that they are evil, while the natural health industry is completely unregulated and unnaccountable, wholly beffitting their innocent and plucky underdog status.
Fixed that for you.
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  #23  
Old 26.01.2011, 15:52
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

You all know my thoughts on the vaccine issue, but I always wonder why anti-vaccine posts are always so long? Are they trying too hard to convince us?
Go to www.aegis.ch and read the anti-vaccine diatribes there, I bet you won't read to the end. Interestingly, one of the prime anti-vaccine campaigners in Switzerland recently died from an "illness". The illness itself wasn't specified, but wouldn't it be ironic if it were something that was preventable by vaccination?
Just saying, that's all
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  #24  
Old 26.01.2011, 16:39
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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So what do you think mercola's vested or conflict of interests(or any other alternative health website for that matter) might be in writing articles telling people about the possible side effects of HPV vaccines? I'd be genuinely interested to know. How do you think they are benefiting by spreading that information?
I wouldn't give a vaccine made by Merck to a corpse. Their reputation is terrible. Especially after the Vioxx scandal they need another drug to recuperate their losses. HPV vaccine my ass...
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  #25  
Old 26.01.2011, 16:51
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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I wouldn't give a vaccine made by Merck to a corpse. Their reputation is terrible. Especially after the Vioxx scandal they need another drug to recuperate their losses. HPV vaccine my ass...
You must have trouble buying anything if you refuse to buy anything from a company that cocked things up once.

Interesting that you completely distrust an industry that shows time and time again that it is held to account when it makes a mistake. It's almost as if big pharma doesn't have the grip on the world that anti pharma claim it does. It's very confusing. Why didn't they just use all their lobbyists, politicians and control of the medical industry to just hush it up? They obviously have the resources.
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Old 26.01.2011, 17:10
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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You must have trouble buying anything if you refuse to buy anything from a company that cocked things up once.

Interesting that you completely distrust an industry that shows time and time again that it is held to account when it makes a mistake. It's almost as if big pharma doesn't have the grip on the world that anti pharma claim it does. It's very confusing. Why didn't they just use all their lobbyists, politicians and control of the medical industry to just hush it up? They obviously have the resources.
Who wrote anything about "completely distrusting?" Did I write that in my post?..NO... Plus Merck couldn't "hush it up" if they tried they were being sued by too many people, and the people won. If you love drugs thats your business, but don't twist my words...
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Old 26.01.2011, 17:19
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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Who wrote anything about "completely distrusting?" Did I write that in my post?..NO... Plus Merck couldn't "hush it up" if they tried they were being sued by too many people, and the people won. If you love drugs thats your business, but don't twist my words...
It was the "HPV Vaccine my ass". Are you saying the vaccine doesn't work or is just dangerous?

It would seem to me that a vaccination program carries considerably more risk of litigation than a medicine for specific disorders.

I don't love drugs, nor am I a particular fan of what Pharma does, this does not mean that I think a well established company would be prepared to commit fraud on a multi national level.
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Old 26.01.2011, 18:12
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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It was the "HPV Vaccine my ass". Are you saying the vaccine doesn't work or is just dangerous? #1

It would seem to me that a vaccination program carries considerably more risk of litigation than a medicine for specific disorders. #2

I don't love drugs, nor am I a particular fan of what Pharma does, this does not mean that I think a well established company would be prepared to commit fraud on a multi national level.#3
#1. Both
#2 Says who? Your personal opinion doesn't hold water here.
#3 Established companies are willing to commit fraud quite often. You
can't be that naive, or maybe you are.

You're only going to make yourself look silly here, so I advise you to quit while your're behind...honestly
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  #29  
Old 26.01.2011, 18:36
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

Certainly there's a lot of gaming, fleecing and paper fraud, but killing people is a little more than white collar crime.

Letting people die through inaction and disinformation still seems acceptable in some circles.
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  #30  
Old 26.01.2011, 18:43
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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...You're only going to make yourself look silly here, so I advise you to quit while your're behind...honestly
You do know what you're talking about on that score. That's so rich. Thank-you for making my day.
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  #31  
Old 26.01.2011, 21:07
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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I wouldn't give a vaccine made by Merck to a corpse. Their reputation is terrible. Especially after the Vioxx scandal they need another drug to recuperate their losses. HPV vaccine my ass...
Interesting you should mention your arse, Gardisil's other two targets are HPV strains that cause anal warts and cancers.
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  #32  
Old 26.01.2011, 21:24
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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#1. Both
So Cyrus, in fact, wasn't putting words into your mouth?

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#2 Says who? Your personal opinion doesn't hold water here.
Right back at'ya...

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You're only going to make yourself look silly here, so I advise you to quit while your're behind...honestly
The old saying about people complaining about the splinter in your eye, while not being able to see the plank in theirs springs to mind... Honestly

Are you one of those Americans who understands "irony"?
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  #33  
Old 26.01.2011, 21:55
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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So Cyrus, in fact, wasn't putting words into your mouth?



Right back at'ya...



The old saying about people complaining about the splinter in your eye, while not being able to see the plank in theirs springs to mind... Honestly

Are you one of those Americans who understands "irony"?
-You're boring, and who asked you anyways? So narrow minded and limited. Go to bed!
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  #34  
Old 27.01.2011, 00:49
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

Gee this all kicked off. Actually I was more interested in the fact that I high proportion of straight men are getting throat cancer from this, which leads me to a conclusion, but I guess that's just the way my mind works

Nothing in life is risk-free not even safe-sex it seems, they should rename it safer-sex.

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HPV can be passed by skin to skin and genital contact.
It is most often passed during vaginal and anal sex. However, as HPV can live in your mouth, anus and genital areas it can be passed through oral sex.
There are two types or strains of HPV which are most likely to cause cancer - HPV-16 and HPV-18.
HPV-16 is thought to be responsible for around 60% of cervical cancers, 80% of cancers in the anus and 60% of oral cancers.
Doctors cannot control the virus and can't predict if people will get the virus.
However, if you have a lot of sexual partners you are more likely to be infected with HPV and if your immune system cannot naturally get rid of the virus it can put you at risk.
How do you prevent it?

By having the HPV vaccine or changing your sexual behaviour.
Realistically doctors acknowledge that people will have oral sex.
If you have a normal amount of partners the risk of HPV developing into something like cancer would not be as high as someone who had an extremely large number of partners.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/12132990

Explicit BBC 3


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Old 27.01.2011, 07:42
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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-You're boring, and who asked you anyways? So narrow minded and limited. Go to bed!
Is that the best you can come up with?
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  #36  
Old 27.01.2011, 08:47
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

I wrote a lengthy post about how Adverse Events are reported and treatedwith regards to vaccines, only to get a server error. Oh well. Anyway, to put it simply, without using any irony whatsoever, just because someone dies in the days following a vaccination does not mean the vaccine was the cause of death; up to 2008, 23 million doses of Gardasil were administered, and there were 32 deaths REPORTED on the VAERS database. This does not mean the 2 are linked, simply that they were REPORTED (I've emphasised that again, just in case you're not clear). If there was a pattern in the cause of death, or individuals affected, the authorities would leap on it. Do you just think that that any medication is put on the market just willy-nilly? Have you seen the amount of resources, man-hours, and cold hard cash goes into product development and registration?
It always amazes me how some people jump on the anti-vaccine bandwagon without having a frigging clue about the science or the regulatory background behind it. It's not just ignorant, it's downright dangerous.
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Old 27.01.2011, 09:03
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

Look! LOOK! Here's the evidence that people are lying about it, right here in this post! Fraudster!

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...up to 2008, 23 million doses of Gardasil were administered, and there were 32 deaths REPORTED on the VAERS database. This does not mean the 2 are linked, simply that they were REPORTED...
What happened to the other 30 that mysteriously disapeared, hey? Answer me!

Caught red-handed!

Oh...no...wait. I don't understand what you are writing about.
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Old 27.01.2011, 09:16
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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...Nothing in life is risk-free not even safe-sex it seems, they should rename it safer-sex...
That was one of the criticisms of the government's AIDS awareness campaign in the 80s.

Do try and keep up.
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Old 27.01.2011, 11:14
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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Look! LOOK! Here's the evidence that people are lying about it, right here in this post! Fraudster!



What happened to the other 30 that mysteriously disapeared, hey? Answer me!

Caught red-handed!

Oh...no...wait. I don't understand what you are writing about.
Foiled again!
I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids.
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Old 27.01.2011, 14:21
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Re: Mothers immunize your sons!

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That was one of the criticisms of the government's AIDS awareness campaign in the 80s.

Do try and keep up.
OK I'll rename it 'No practice 100% safe sex' I will write a book about self-pleasuring techniques and sell it. I just feel really sorry for young people nowadays. AIDS has really messed everything up.

I took my daughter to have the vaccine, she refused. She said that she had read upon it- wasn't that impressed, didn't like the sound of the side-affects and in any case informed me that she had no intention of being sexually active for the foreseeable future. So after a while I had the doctor 'talk to her'. My daughter asked why boys didn't have to have it. Buut relented had the first two- has refused the third. She had a team meet right after the first shot. That didn't go down well.
She is now 18 so able to make her own choices. She had no problem choosing to get the meningitis shot.

Pharmaceutical companies are businesses and there have been enough cases to show that ethics is not always their main focus- share prices are.
Scientists have ethics (usually), but marketing people ?
So I remain skeptical.


My problem is that I did not get my son immunized (or vaccinated?) against measles. He had some allergies. There was a scare out at the time about the measles shot, many avoided the shot. I had measles when I was a baby had to have gamma globulin but survived. Then a wave of measles started. I took my son to get the shot, but I was too late he got the disease anyway. He had very high temperatures it was extremely worrying. So now I believe that unless your children have serious reasons not to get the shots- then get them vaccinated/immunized.

But, yes, there are a lot of questions about the vaccine
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