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  #21  
Old 30.01.2011, 09:31
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

You are right to follow your instinct , I don't see why it is so difficult to have a blood test done. With my healthcare , i would have to pay it myself anyways, the franchise is so high.

Anyways, this is why i never go to doctors because most of the time they just say it's viral so i'm not going to pay a consultation for that. There is a very bad epidemy of stomach flu in france at the moment. Lots of my friends ' kids have the same symptoms as your little one. My husband got the same sickness last week end and me, who is never ever sick, got hit with a virus that lasted a month. This winter seems to be quite terrible, i know more people sick than healthy at the moment. Saying that and to put your mind at rest . they could do a simple test to see if it's viral or bacterial and as mentionned above, do a full blood test.

They could also take a bit more time talking to you as it seems to be a big part of the problem. You should be given more info like what to do against dehydratation for instance or not giving dairy product as mentionned by another poster. But here, they don't take the time to speak to patients and will charge you extra money if the consultation exceeds a certain time. crazy !

HAve you ever tried to call a doctor on line? Two times I called them on a weekend. One time because I was not able to put down my daughter's temperature. The doctor was very nice and took the time to reassure me and give me the instructions to follow.

Also remember than each time you take your little girl to a doctor or the hospital she is exposed to more germs and viruses.

Start a thread here or do some research on the forum to see if EF members in your area has a good kids doctor to recommand you.

Good luck and keep us informed about the situation. I wish your little girl a speedy recovery too.
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  #22  
Old 30.01.2011, 09:38
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

Please let us know what will happen.

Like I said earlier, I am very happy with our doctors. They are the bests that I ever had in all countries I lived in. And this will be a very bad thing to lose them when we will move.

But it takes time to find a good one. Sometimes it is by luck and sometimes you have to look hard.

But don't forget, doctors are just human with diploma in a specialisation. It doesn't make them competents nor skilled in human relationship.
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  #23  
Old 30.01.2011, 11:12
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

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Was something wrong with your pediatrician that you had to go to the hospital?

In any case, change your pediatrician if you do not trust your current one. It is very difficult to know the professional competence of a pediatrician, however, you immediately know whether you have trust or not.

Martin
well the problem with the pediatrician; i was there last week with my little girl and the doctor say will be fine in a few days that was the 17 of january (i wait before to that like 4 days if the fever go down.. but no so the fever start the 12 of january) after that she was fine for 3 days, and again start with fever. (this is since november... many time at the doctor and always the same)
at weekends i cant contact the doktor, so i take her direct to the kinderspital because the fever was 41° and y little one was looking really bad.
Today my little girl still with fever 39° and sleep really bad, but now is drinking some tee, so i will not take her to the kinderspital today...
i wait until Tuesday when i will make the appointment with the pediatrician of my little girl and ask her directly to send some blood complete test .
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Old 30.01.2011, 12:35
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

Just an idea but it might be easier finding an english speaking doctor than a spanish one, hope your little one feels better soon.
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  #25  
Old 30.01.2011, 13:20
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

One of my girls was constantly sick and always reacted with a fever to the slightest germ until she turned 4, when it started being less frequent. My ped did some blood test (can't remember exactly what) that indicated that she just happened to be a child that is prone to being sick (wish I could remember the name of it).
Do you have other children? Is there any possible way you could just stay home with her for atleast a couple weeks so she has as little contact with other kids, grocery stores, shopping centers, doctor's offices (yuck- germs, germs, germs) as possible? Maybe this way she could get her strength back a little.
I wish you all the best, especially your little girl.
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Old 30.01.2011, 13:31
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

Just wanted to say that we also didn't have the greatest experience at Kinderspital Zurich, and had to take our son to Winterthur. They treated him immediately and literally saved his life. He was severly dehydrated, and our pediatrician had told us to get him an inusion asap. Kinderspital refused, gave us absolutely ridiculous advice, and even told us that whatever he had wasn't contagious, and he spent another night without hydration before getting to Winterthur. His veins had become so tight, they had to call a specialist in to get the IV going. We spent three days in an isloation room. Folow your instinct and go elsewhere!
We have also had good experiences at Kinderspital by the way, but when you have to go elsewhere, you have to go.
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Old 30.01.2011, 15:16
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

No Makita, do not wait.
If you child is listless, whimpering and crying (apático y lloriqeando, llorando) with a constant fever, and is no longer drinking or sleeping:

go to the hospital

Seriously, don't hesitate.
It is best to have her in the right place being monitored by doctors.

Where are you ?
I can't speak German but I can translate the words you would like to say in French, English or Italian.
If you need German there's enough of us here that can help you with the right words.



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well the problem with the pediatrician; i was there last week with my little girl and the doctor say will be fine in a few days that was the 17 of january (i wait before to that like 4 days if the fever go down.. but no so the fever start the 12 of january) after that she was fine for 3 days, and again start with fever. (this is since november... many time at the doctor and always the same)
at weekends i cant contact the doktor, so i take her direct to the kinderspital because the fever was 41° and y little one was looking really bad.
Today my little girl still with fever 39° and sleep really bad, but now is drinking some tee, so i will not take her to the kinderspital today...
i wait until Tuesday when i will make the appointment with the pediatrician of my little girl and ask her directly to send some blood complete test .
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  #28  
Old 30.01.2011, 15:29
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

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No Makita, do not wait.
If you child is listless, whimpering and crying (apático y lloriqeando, llorando) with a constant fever, and is no longer drinking or sleeping:

go to the hospital

Seriously, don't hesitate.
It is best to have her in the right place being monitored by doctors.

Where are you ?
I can't speak German but I can translate the words you would like to say in French, English or Italian.
If you need German there's enough of us here that can help you with the right words.
hi! well thanks for your advice, but like i told before, that was the reason i taker her to the kinderspital yesterday, and what they do?? just put a paracetamol 300 (that i was doing normally in my house) and wait for see how she react, the fever go donw, bur after a few hours the fever go up, i ask for the urine exam, the put the bag, but my little one dont make, so no urine at that moment.
so i was 4 hours at the kinderspital and only take the fever.., and heart info, nothing more, after looking again like always ears, mouth, listen heart and lungs... again is just a viral infection
And when i explain that is already for long time like this, she say " well right now is a viral infection i cant tell you about the other times because am not her doctor"
I dont wanna give paracetamol for life, i wanna found the WHY my little girl is like that now.

pd: i understand german but is dificult to me for speak (give aswers ) , i speak english (better than the way i write...just learn with tv), and spanish, and my husband is german, so he also explain to the doctor yesterday .
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Old 30.01.2011, 15:32
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

I understand your deep frustration (and I have been there too).
Just with small children, symptoms can change very quickly, so if you see a change do not hesitate to return and insist on seeing the ober-arzt (chief doctor)
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Old 30.01.2011, 16:44
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

Just wanted to add that you can also call the Notarzt who will come to your house. This saves the hours of waiting at the hospital (and exposure to other bugs), you also will be getting a doctor who is not closer in age to your child than yourself, and if your child needs to go to hospital, a call from him/her will get you past the lineups. (arztphon: 044 421 21 21).
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Old 30.01.2011, 17:36
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

Is Winterthur too far to go? Another poster mentioned to go there, I would if I was OP. I wouldn't wait a few days with a really high fever, although we did have a virus that repeated itself and fevers were coming and going, still popped into ER to check. You can never check too often. i second the advice to keep your child outside of a kid group, for a week, to get her recovered first before another infection has a chance to threaten her immune system. Keep her on a couch or in a bed, snug and drinking (sweet drinks, to make sure she drinks, formula works well, too, chocolate milk, too), not have her exhaust herself walking, I wouldn't take her outside even, for a week, eventhough it is a major biatch to keep them calm, at this stage. I would also look into strengthening her immune system (kids multivits - there is a syrup and chewy candy, massive doses of vit C, then complete set of vit Bs, that's what I do when we are fighting repetivive infestions and it seems to always work for a few months, and honey helps, too).
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Old 31.01.2011, 00:09
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

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And when i explain that is already for long time like this, she say " well right now is a viral infection i cant tell you about the other times because am not her doctor"
I would request a copy of your girl's medical records from the pediatrician as a prove this has been going on since November, and then consult another pediatrician.

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I would also look into strengthening her immune system (kids multivits - there is a syrup and chewy candy, massive doses of vit C, then complete set of vit Bs, that's what I do when we are fighting repetivive infestions and it seems to always work for a few months, and honey helps, too).
Yep, several grams of Vit C to tolerance dosis, and some Probiotics to stimulate her immune defence.


Hope your little girl is feeling better soon.
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  #33  
Old 31.01.2011, 11:22
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

Hello MaKita,

I don't provide any practical advice because I'm not a doctor and don't want to interfere with them. Anyway I understand your concerns because we have felt the same way.
Coming from Italy, we probably share with Chile and other latin countries the same attitude, as far as the doctors are concerned, regarding the way to behave with patients.
In Italy doctors take time to listen to the little patient and their parents, to explain the real and potential threats, and to reassure about any rational and irrational fears that every parent has about the health of their children.
In other words, doctors cure both the body and the soul, because they have been taught that those are two aspects of the same human being, and so influence each other.
Here in Switzerland doctors tend to act differently, they are concerned about the measurable effect of a certain disease, and what is the action (if any) that, based on statistic, would lead to cease the undesired symptoms.
Most of the time, according to their statistics, the most successful action with minimum investment (of time and drugs) would be doing...nothing, because our body has a lot of powerful ways to repair itself.
So what normaly happens is that the doctor identify the specific case (10 cases would account for 99% of all situations) and then follow the protocol (e.g. checking ears, spikes of fever, get the blue pill, goodbye).

Just like you, I don't like this system, it is rather superficial (even though statistically very efficient), because when you are in the misfortunate 1% of umprobable case, they are almost unable to help (in my family they are all doctors, and they told me that Switzerland, which is an excellent country in many aspects, is practically unknown for its contribution in the medical field - pharma companies not counting

So I would follow the advice from Nil: look and look around until you find one of the rare "real" doctor and not just a "drug dispensers" who has seen two otitis in his career.
And don't be intimidated: if you feel they are just bullshi----g, go to another place, and another again: you are the mother, you know much better than them if the symptoms of your child are serious or not.

Last but not least: it might be worthy to subscribe a full healthcare plan, where you have the right to choose your doctor, otherwise you might get stuck to the general practitioner described above. I know, healthcare plan are expensive, but if I have to be ripped off by several hundreds a month to be cured by an unexperienced veterinary, I'd prefer to add few hundreds more and visit my real doctor wherever and how often I feel I need.

And best recovery to your little one!
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  #34  
Old 01.02.2011, 18:07
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

So i finally explote today crying in the parking place outside from the doktor.
The thing was...at sunday when we supposed to go again to the kinderspital, we cancel the appointment because the doctor say is not necesary put the infusion if she start drinking, the problem she drink so little .
at monday i try to force my little girl to drink, she dont drink nothing in the day, so at 10:30 in the night i decided to take her to the kinderspital Winterthur, after wait 2 hours they saw my little one and make one blood exam, the doctor say look "almost " normal, and the bacteriologie look a little hig, but nothing to get worried still, and my Kinderartz should continue a study. So ahver i arrive home 03:00 am i, get up today and make and appointment.
the doktor cant see me today so other from the same praxis will see her.
I told myself ok, i will ask for more exams and more.
I arrive there and first thing he told me she dont look so bad now, after she look her , he told me "is a viral infeccion bla bla bla" i told him ok, but can i ask you i need you make some exams like a blood count and more , and he told me no, is not necesary, they i reply but the doctor yesterday told me i can ask you to make more studys on my girl, he say no., we dont make that.
At that moment i start to panic , and again i told him, i dont care how much cost i wanna you start to look for example the Immune system and more, so after like 3 times , i told him, so were i can found a doctor who can make it, he say nobody... what ? i told him so i can go and ask for some exams or something to any doctor , he told me no, and i HOPE nobody make it.
after that i was close to hit him (the only thing put me again in my chair was i dont wanna be in jail or kicked out from the country and put in a unconfortable situation to my husband.
then he told me , look in april this thing will be gonne , again What?? i told him but you dont understand , we dont sleep anymore together with my husband, we sleep so bad, and she cant be sick until april!!!!!!!!!!!
then i just get up, say thanks and take my little girl out from there
Then in the car i just call my husband and cry for a few minutes and screaming how much i hate this fxxxxxxxxxx country .
so i have to wait for a miracle or move form this country i dont know...
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  #35  
Old 01.02.2011, 18:34
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

If your little girls' liquid intake is a problem - if she can't keep it down, this could be a real dehydration problem.

We had something similar with our eldest daughter, years back, when she was about 4 (it was just a bad stomach bug). Our normal house doctor was concerned so sent us to the Kantonalspital, where they connected her to a drip to get her hydration levels up. Unfortunately at the time we went, they were junior doctors only in Notfall/walk-in, and they set the flow rate of the drip too high (too much pressure in here small veins). Didn't do any real damage - just a nasty experience for her.

Next time we saw her kinderartz/paediatrician, he said that for cases where children can't keep anything down (especially liquids), to try giving normal Coke-cola in small amounts, plus there is a product available from the pharmacy (without prescription), in powder sachets (just add boiled, but not boiling water), called Ges 45. Again give small amounts regularly, but when a sachet is mixed with water, it should be kept in the fridge.

http://ch.oddb.org/en/gcc/resolve/pointer/:!patinfo,2906.

(sorry link is in DE, despite it supposedly giving English as an option. If content is not clear use Google translate or similar).

Last edited by TiMow; 01.02.2011 at 18:49. Reason: addition to clarify
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Old 01.02.2011, 18:34
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

Querida.. I am so sorry you are going through this.

You are free Makita, you do not have to follow anybody's rules. Your English is good enough to find a doctor who speaks English (since you can not find a doctor who speaks Spanish).

You are doing the right thing, looking for a medical help for your child. Does your husband speak German ? Perhaps he can take some time off to go to the doctor with you and explain the history of what has been going on ?

Perhaps people here know an English speaking paediatrician who can help you ?

Otherwise I would suggest you contact the American Womens Club of Zurich for information about "Living in Zurich" when you speak English
http://www.awczurich.org/index.php?o...d=15&Itemid=54

There's also the New Stork Times for pregnant mamas and needed help.
If I remember, your other thread mentioned that you're expecting a baby. The New Stork group has professional nurses and midwives, they could perhaps help you with what you are going through now and also with finding a doctor for your little girl.
http://www.thestork.ch/

Here is their English speaking doctor list
http://www.thestork.ch/html/docsped.html

It's going to be ok. It's so hard to live in a new country when you can't speak the language. You are a lot stronger than you think and doing what you think is right is the road to follow.

Do get some sleep and let your husband take over for a little while so that you can rest.
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Old 01.02.2011, 18:51
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

Makita I am so sorry you are feeling like this. Just do not know how to say this- but a Forum is really not the place to get medical help, let alone for a little one. Would you really feel better if the doctor told you there is really something seriously wrong with your little boy? Surely not. If several doctors have examined him and come to the conclusion that nothing is seriously wrong, and it is one of those nasty long lasting viral lurgy - however frustrating, surely it is good news. Please try and find a doctor you can communicate well and discuss your anxiety and worries. Being a new mum in a foreign country can be really hard, away from family and support - I can remember this only too well. Sadly though, your anxiety and anger is perhaps not helping your little one get better- so you need to find support too. My very best wishes.
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Old 01.02.2011, 19:03
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

mmmmm Odile... every mother wants to be wrong when she's worried out of her mind. I think Makita is quite right to want to find an answer. Several weeks of fever and a toddler who is not drinking or sleeping is a valid reason to stay very attentive to the situation.
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Old 01.02.2011, 19:05
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

Hi,

Please give our Pediatrician a call - I will PM you my name for a referral - we travel all the way from Schwyz to ZH - he is wonderful, hope he will be able to help you and your little one.

Dr. med. Harald Schütze, Feldeggstrasse 32, 8008 Zürich
Tel.: 044 387 58 00
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Old 01.02.2011, 19:11
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Re: I hate this health system!!!!

Quote:
Makita I am so sorry you are feeling like this. Just do not know how to say this- but a Forum is really not the place to get medical help, let alone for a little one. Would you really feel better if the doctor told you there is really something seriously wrong with your little boy? Surely not. If several doctors have examined him and come to the conclusion that nothing is seriously wrong, and it is one of those nasty long lasting viral lurgy - however frustrating, surely it is good news. Please try and find a doctor you can communicate well and discuss your anxiety and worries. Being a new mum in a foreign country can be really hard, away from family and support - I can remember this only too well. Sadly though, your anxiety and anger is perhaps not helping your little one get better- so you need to find support too. My very best wishes.
hi , and thanks, i know this is not the place for search medical help, but i least i feel better when i put the things out somewere.
I know already the doctors told me is a viral infection but.
Why have to be so long?
how i know is her Immune system after several viral infeccions?
why if the doctor yesterday told me the bacteria was a little out of normal, the doctor today dont wanna make any studys?
how the doctor can tell me , i HOPE nobody make that exams for you?
alreday 3 times i saw my little girl really bad, i was crying next to her in bed, because i cant make something for help her, i really wish to be in my country , when you have a clear answer , and if i ask for one exam they dont say not to me, they can explain is not necesary and bla bla, but they make it...

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