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  #101  
Old 16.02.2011, 15:40
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

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And there are chances when the boss is made redundant.. what happens then
He gets rid of some middle level management to flatten out the company structure...gets praised at board meeting for implementing cost saving strategy and gets a raise.
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  #102  
Old 16.02.2011, 15:40
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

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agreed, boss moves up, right hand man gets the boss' job
And there are chances that the boss is made redundant,what happens then
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  #103  
Old 16.02.2011, 15:45
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

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He gets rid of some middle level management to flatten out the company structure...get praised at board meeting for implementing cost saving strategy and gets a raise.
yes this happens, if you are lucky! not always though.
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  #104  
Old 16.02.2011, 15:45
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

nic, I don't know about your plans and it's not an issue if you are planning to concentrate on the career of one person only. But if not, what about yours? Are you working or planning to work in the future and what are your options in either of the places?
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  #105  
Old 16.02.2011, 15:55
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

Well, I'm all about career but it means no life. And in academic career is very differently structured anyway - it's about personal reputation that institutions support so the issues are entirely different. But you do trade career for life. I made my choice and I can absolutely see why people would make the other one. It's about what's important for you.

One thing I find so maddening is people who would want to travel with work but who have no understanding of what's involved. They're envious but don't provide support because they don't want to see how hard it really is - it ruins their fantasy. I have found this play into personal relationships for me at times when making these kinds of decisions.

Life in $ is considerably cheaper than in CHF so it might feel like more money, but being settled is important. And in the US they should be offering substantial packages of benefits. If they're not offering set annual bonuses, limousine health care, trips back home etc., then they're not making a US offer.
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  #106  
Old 16.02.2011, 17:41
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

Having lived in the Silicon Valley for 3 years (Sunnyvale), and the Bay Area for a total of 15 years, let me give you the inside scoop about life in SiliValley:

- Rat-race, live-to-work, back-stabbing tech culture
- Monoculture consisting of everyone obsessing about work and housing prices ad nauseum be it in the office or at the bar
- No separation of work and personal life: people leave the office to go home and do emails
- Hire and fire no loyalty mentality, you are a cog in the wheel and if your boss doesn't like your aftershave you are out on your ass with 2 weeks notice (they will just walk you to the door with a security guard immediately, however)
- Did a great job at work? It will either be ignored by jealous coworkers, or your boss will try to take credit for it
- Ridiculous housing prices with poor construction quality, even now
- Very little vacation (2-3 weeks per year) and don't even think about taking two weeks together or someone will be gunning for your job
- 12.5% unemployment....NO JOKE. Everyone lucky enough to have a job is terrified of losing it
- Nightmare traffic, Highway 101 and 280 are basically 100 mile long parking lots during rush hour (which is all day long)
- Terrible air quality
- High taxes and now a bankrupt state government slashing services and closing parks
- Think you're close to the ocean? Think again. The closest beach is 45 minutes away with NO traffic (which never happens), and on weekends and public holidays there is a traffic jam over Highway 17 to the ocean resulting in over an hour trip and once you get there it is CROWDED.
- On the few public holidays you will have, EVERYONE is heading to either the beach or the mountains or state parks resulting in nightmare traffic jams
- San Francisco ain't just down the street it is a 50 minute, boring drive (if you don't hit traffic), and is now the US capital of homeless psychotic bums pissing in the streets

OK, it's got great Mexican and Asian food, and a zillion KFCs.
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  #107  
Old 16.02.2011, 17:47
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

Life in the US is cushy. California is incredible - San Francisco, Napa wineries, Big Sur and the coastline. There is nothing like it. Well, Oregon and Washington have their own special flair as well, which I'm rather partial to...

But, really, why not take a leap of faith? It's a new experience, completely different from where you're from and where you are now. Americans and Californians in particular, are friendly and accepting. Everybody belongs. Imagine that after living in Switzerland! It could lead to something great for your husband's career - or not - but you'll never know unless you go and if it's not all you dreamed it would be, then he'll get another position and life will go on. I say go for it! And have a great time!!!!

Is it painfully obvious that I'm horribly homesick these days?
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  #108  
Old 16.02.2011, 17:48
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

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Having lived in the Silicon Valley for 3 years (Sunnyvale), and the Bay Area for a total of 15 years, let me give you the inside scoop about life in SiliValley:

- Rat-race, live-to-work, back-stabbing tech culture
- Monoculture consisting of everyone obsessing about work and housing prices ad nauseum be it in the office or at the bar
- No separation of work and personal life: people leave the office to go home and do emails
- Hire and fire no loyalty mentality, you are a cog in the wheel and if your boss doesn't like your aftershave you are out on your ass with 2 weeks notice (they will just walk you to the door with a security guard immediately, however)
- Did a great job at work? It will either be ignored by jealous coworkers, or your boss will try to take credit for it
- Ridiculous housing prices with poor construction quality, even now
- Very little vacation (2-3 weeks per year) and don't even think about taking two weeks together or someone will be gunning for your job
- 12.5% unemployment....NO JOKE. Everyone lucky enough to have a job is terrified of losing it
- Nightmare traffic, Highway 101 and 280 are basically 100 mile long parking lots during rush hour (which is all day long)
- Terrible air quality
- High taxes and now a bankrupt state government slashing services and closing parks
- Think you're close to the ocean? Think again. The closest beach is 45 minutes away with NO traffic (which never happens), and on weekends and public holidays there is a traffic jam over Highway 17 to the ocean resulting in over an hour trip and once you get there it is CROWDED.
- On the few public holidays you will have, EVERYONE is heading to either the beach or the mountains or state parks resulting in nightmare traffic jams
- San Francisco ain't just down the street it is a 50 minute, boring drive (if you don't hit traffic), and is now the US capital of homeless psychotic bums pissing in the streets

OK, it's got great Mexican and Asian food, and a zillion KFCs.
Ooh, okay, after reading that...maybe don't listen to me!
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  #109  
Old 16.02.2011, 17:59
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

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Having lived in the Silicon Valley for 3 years (Sunnyvale), and the Bay Area for a total of 15 years, let me give you the inside scoop about life in SiliValley:

- Rat-race, live-to-work, back-stabbing tech culture
- Monoculture consisting of everyone obsessing about work and housing prices ad nauseum be it in the office or at the bar
- No separation of work and personal life: people leave the office to go home and do emails
- Hire and fire no loyalty mentality, you are a cog in the wheel and if your boss doesn't like your aftershave you are out on your ass with 2 weeks notice (they will just walk you to the door with a security guard immediately, however)
- Did a great job at work? It will either be ignored by jealous coworkers, or your boss will try to take credit for it
- Ridiculous housing prices with poor construction quality, even now
- Very little vacation (2-3 weeks per year) and don't even think about taking two weeks together or someone will be gunning for your job
- 12.5% unemployment....NO JOKE. Everyone lucky enough to have a job is terrified of losing it
- Nightmare traffic, Highway 101 and 280 are basically 100 mile long parking lots during rush hour (which is all day long)
- Terrible air quality
- High taxes and now a bankrupt state government slashing services and closing parks
- Think you're close to the ocean? Think again. The closest beach is 45 minutes away with NO traffic (which never happens), and on weekends and public holidays there is a traffic jam over Highway 17 to the ocean resulting in over an hour trip and once you get there it is CROWDED.
- On the few public holidays you will have, EVERYONE is heading to either the beach or the mountains or state parks resulting in nightmare traffic jams
- San Francisco ain't just down the street it is a 50 minute, boring drive (if you don't hit traffic), and is now the US capital of homeless psychotic bums pissing in the streets

OK, it's got great Mexican and Asian food, and a zillion KFCs.
Um...OK: OP, stay put.
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  #110  
Old 16.02.2011, 18:07
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

You have some of those things that apply here as well.

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Having lived in the Silicon Valley for 3 years (Sunnyvale), and the Bay Area for a total of 15 years, let me give you the inside scoop about life in SiliValley:

- Rat-race, live-to-work, back-stabbing tech culture Pharma Industry for exemple.
- Monoculture consisting of everyone obsessing about work and housing prices ad nauseum be it in the office or at the bar I see it from my Husband's work here
- No separation of work and personal life: people leave the office to go home and do emails I know plenty of people who does that here too.
- Hire and fire no loyalty mentality, you are a cog in the wheel and if your boss doesn't like your aftershave you are out on your ass with 2 weeks notice (they will just walk you to the door with a security guard immediately, however) Here too
- Did a great job at work? It will either be ignored by jealous coworkers, or your boss will try to take credit for it THAT is here too.
- Ridiculous housing prices with poor construction quality, even now
- Very little vacation (2-3 weeks per year) and don't even think about taking two weeks together or someone will be gunning for your job And I am not going to talk about maternity or paternity leaves
- 12.5% unemployment....NO JOKE. Everyone lucky enough to have a job is terrified of losing it
- Nightmare traffic, Highway 101 and 280 are basically 100 mile long parking lots during rush hour (which is all day long)
- Terrible air quality
- High taxes and now a bankrupt state government slashing services and closing parks
- Think you're close to the ocean? Think again. The closest beach is 45 minutes away with NO traffic (which never happens), and on weekends and public holidays there is a traffic jam over Highway 17 to the ocean resulting in over an hour trip and once you get there it is CROWDED.
- On the few public holidays you will have, EVERYONE is heading to either the beach or the mountains or state parks resulting in nightmare traffic jams Public holidays here are not different... Especially when other countries have them in the same time.
- San Francisco ain't just down the street it is a 50 minute, boring drive (if you don't hit traffic), and is now the US capital of homeless psychotic bums pissing in the streets

OK, it's got great Mexican and Asian food, and a zillion KFCs. Not here. And what ever we have here, it cost the skin of my buttom.
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  #111  
Old 16.02.2011, 18:14
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

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You have some of those things that apply here as well.
Can anybody point me towards a country where all coworker love each other and help to all achieve a great job in a team? Where work is appreciated and not weather or not your boss likes your face? Where each and everyone of them makes a great career and becomes the manager of many people?

Seriously, I love to bash Americans and their working culture is surely different - but you do not make a career by doing nothing in a sleepy Swiss office either.
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  #112  
Old 16.02.2011, 18:22
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

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agreed, boss moves up, right hand man gets the boss' job
OR: boss moves up, new boss is brought in from outside, new boss wants his own right-hand man, not someone else's.

It can go either way...
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  #113  
Old 16.02.2011, 18:23
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

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Can anybody point me towards a country where all coworker love each other and help to all achieve a great job in a team? Where work is appreciated and not weather or not your boss likes your face? Where each and everyone of them makes a great career and becomes the manager of many people?.
The USSR but it got cancelled a while back
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  #114  
Old 16.02.2011, 18:36
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

Hi

I would say, we make a career for our family. So, family first, career next. Afterall, family has got a life in it.

Regards.
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  #115  
Old 16.02.2011, 18:41
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

I started my current career in the Silicon Valley (Mountain View to be precise) and I thought I would never leave - I had found my home, although I was a foreigner: great coworkers, great career advancement opportunities, and the general feeling that everything was possible. I spent there some of the best years of my life.

It had two major problems though: on the professional side, I would move up the ladder, but the type of work would be pretty much always the same - technically speaking, although I never fully realized that then - with limited opportunities to learn and increase my professional expertise. (Huge) problem number 2 was that my whole family is scattered around Europe, with no intentions of ever moving to the US.

So I came for a 1-year assignment to Zurich, mainly to see "something else" and to be closer to my dear ones. Then, I found an intellectually challenging, more exciting work place (although much more difficult in many ways), and the happy feeling that I can see my loved ones on a few-hours notice, no planning, no 2-day trips and jetlag. I got used to that, and decided to stay.

I truly believe that the Silicon Valley is an exceptional place, and I am sure I could have been very happy/successful there in the long term. However, I also realized that my happiness would have never been "complete" without being part of my family's daily life, and viceversa. As an added bonus, I actually happen to really like living in Zurich.

I chose family over career, and would do it again. Careers can change anytime, and for one "missed opportunity" there are a million out there waiting for you. Family is what makes my life special and complete.
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  #116  
Old 16.02.2011, 19:02
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

nic80.. don't fret.. really, here or there you'll be happy.

I think it may be a little early to ask yourself these questions. It's still just the 2 of you, so to me picking the career makes sense.

Nevertheless having read the 2 or 3 people in this thread that have actually lived there.... I have some doubts about the quality of life.

All depends what you like to do.
Do you like a fast moving competitive environment ? some people love it and thrive on it.
Or do you prefer the quiet life you have here ?
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  #117  
Old 16.02.2011, 19:12
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

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To us this isn't a Switzerland Vs San Francisco argument.
If my husband walked in the door right now and told me that he thought it would benefit us to move, I'd be packing.

But whats so frustrating about it all is that there is no concrete discernible benefit (career wise) other than 'networking opportunities'. In fact the move from here to the US and subsequent salary conversion from Chf to US$ puts him over his US salary range. So financially we wont benefit for a number of years either.

He'll have at least 2 hours of commuting every day and he's going to have to fight to get 4 weeks annual leave (currently they're only offering 2) and longer working hours so it will impact on our family life.

All this because one of the bosses wants him at his right hand?
I think you have already answered your question. Once he is over there, there will be no doubt that career will be the highest priority for him. It is truly a rat race over there. Otherwise his career will "stagnate" just like what you would suspect will happen here. And if wants to job-hop in order to move up the ladder, he will have to negotiate the salary and the 4-weeks annual leave all over again.

Good luck on your husband's decision.
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  #118  
Old 16.02.2011, 19:57
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

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My lovely husband and I sit at a crossroads. We have to decide where to live for the next 18 months to 2 years.

On one hand, we can stay in Lausanne. Our B permits have been renewed through to November 2012 and my husbands job is secure. We're feeling settled here and are learning to like the slower pace of life. We're considering adding to the family shortly (we want to get a dog) and then in a year to 18 months we'd like to try having a baby.

On the other hand, my husband has been offered the same position he holds here, in Silicon Valley. There is no extra money involved (his salary would be the same in US$ as Chf), but we would be starting from scratch again and going through the hellish ineptitude and stress that comes with relocating with the company. They don't do if often and the past two moves have not gone smoothly. Financially it doesn't seem to put us in a better place and going by past experience, the move would mean that my husbands wage would not increase at his subsequent pay review. His job will not be as secure. But my husbands career would get a boost. We're not sure when we'd feel settled enough to try for a family.

If we stay in Switzerland and turn down the offer of a move, it is possible that his career with his current company will stagnate.

There are other factors but these are the basics.

I'm not asking what you think we should do, but rather... whats your priority? Do you put your family life and security ahead, or your career?
When you're on your deathbed (hopefully not soon) you won't be saying "boy, I wish I'd worked more and seen my family less."
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  #119  
Old 16.02.2011, 19:59
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

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When you're on your deathbed (hopefully not soon) you won't be saying "boy, I wish I'd worked more and seen my family less."
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  #120  
Old 16.02.2011, 21:01
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Re: Family life or career? Whats more important to you?

Nic80, if I take a guess at your pseudo, you must be born in 1980? so it is safe to say that you and your hubby are in the early 30ies...

My, you are ready to start a family - and you say that from now on his career is going to stagnate??? by golly, run for the hills! it is a long life, without any interest or opportunity!

If you love it here, look around you and think what your life and your friends and family will be in 3, then 5, then 10 years. How likely is it that they will also be here? expat folks move on quite frequently.

Settled to start a family? I'd say that a great time to have dog and baby is WHILE you settle. It is amazing how having a puppy and a baby is a bonding experience; you are likely to find yourself with lots of new friends.

I can't go on record on how Silicon Valley is... yet. Perhaps by this summer.
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