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Old 31.03.2011, 15:48
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Re: Steiner Schule

I'm sure Roger Waters wrote 'Another Brick in the Wall' with the song being influenced by one of his kids who went there there no?
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  #22  
Old 31.03.2011, 15:51
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Re: Steiner Schule

Two of my distant cousins went to a Waldorf school - and I'm sorry to say not one of them managed to get a profession or any sort of decent job. Now whether that's related to their going to that school I'm not sure...

My opinion is it doesn't really do any good to treat them with kid gloves in an attempt to protect them from the brutal reality. They will have to face it sooner than later - and if they're not used to it, they will have to struggle.
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Old 31.03.2011, 16:16
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Re: Steiner Schule

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No, Steiner was dead before the Nazi party grew to any significance. It is however true that some leading nazis admired Steiner (Rommel for example is a well know case, and Himmler also was a fan). But that didn't stop the Nazis closing down all Steiner schools when they came to power though. But to say that Steiner was somehow responsible for naziism is akin to being anti-vegetairain because Hitler was a vegetarian.
Fair enough - I had a former flatmate who went to Steiner school and she was the one who told me that this was the only thing she disagreed with, the Nazi aspect. Didn't have Wikipedia in those days to check the order of events instantly and then never did it later on, thanks for the clarification.

Oh and she was a bit odd too.
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Old 31.03.2011, 16:24
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Re: Steiner Schule

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Oh and she was a bit odd too.
I think if I had danced my name for years as a kid, I'd be a bit odd too...
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  #25  
Old 31.03.2011, 16:59
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Re: Steiner Schule

I went to Rudolf Steiner school in Zurich for a few years and they were my most fabulous years at school. Great open minded teacher and nice classmates.

I switched later on to a "normal" school. It's fun when you are a kid, but the system does not provide the necessary for all educational directions.

But then again, which school does? Did we really know at age 12 that we wanted to be a banker, pilot or doctor?

I liked the years there.

PS: And no, I did not have to dance my name
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Old 31.03.2011, 17:18
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Re: Steiner Schule

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PS: And no, I did not have to dance my name
That's disappointing. But there surely must have been some things others would consider "odd"?

My friends had for example the choice to choose "sheep tending" as a course.... in Sekundarstufe!
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Old 31.03.2011, 17:32
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Re: Steiner Schule

Sheep, huh? A Waldorf Schule friend of mine had this thing going with this guy more than twice her age (she was 19) who sounded like a pretty nasty person. But no, according to her he must be a fantastic person because "he has a sheep, only good people have sheep"...
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Old 31.03.2011, 18:02
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Re: Steiner Schule

I think a lot depends on the teacher, too. You can be a Waldorf teacher and still push kids to succeed in the "real" world after wards. But, everything (minus the racial comment) that was said here actually sounded exactly the same info and impressions we had when we were going through all the possible pedagogical streams, theories and schools. For some kids, families and teachers, it is a blessing. For some, it can be a serious understimulation. But anything can pretty much go wrong if you have either poor teacher, or overly hippie parents

B the way, where is the tree hugging thread...
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Old 31.03.2011, 18:31
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Re: Steiner Schule

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B the way, where is the tree hugging thread...
We were at sheep hugging not tree hugging...

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Old 31.03.2011, 18:51
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Re: Steiner Schule

I seem to have a Steiner magnet as two of my ex GFs were former Steiner school pupils, and while I was working as a freelancer one of the guys I was working for was a Steiner fan and one of my beer-drinking chums went to a Steiner school.

I think Steiner is one topic that's a bit like nuclear power. You can be stronly in favour or vehemently against, but if you don't have an opinion that can only be because you don't know enough about it.

I have over the years been given various Steiner books and pamphlets and even tried reading some of them and this stuff is totally wierd. A typical argument will work like this

a) Steiner makes a statement. Often its something fairly trivial that you can agree with
b) Steiner formulates it in a way that strictly speaking is incorrect but you say, I agree anyway because I know what he means
c) Then he will use precisely this imprecison and accept it as fact and build on it.
d) After having read too much of that you feel cheated

So here is an example (not actually from Steiner, but inspired, and slightly exaggerated)

- The sun doesn't shine at night
- When it's day in Switzerland it is night in Australia
- Therefore the sun never shines in Australia

When you ask people about the wierd stuff they tend to change the subject or say, that's not very important, or you can't possibly understand that unless you've read this or that book first. So it seems to me there is no way of understanding any part of Steiner's teachings without having read loads and loads of his writings and that's not something I'm prepared to do so I'll have to live with not understanding it.
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  #31  
Old 31.03.2011, 18:53
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Re: Steiner Schule

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I seem to have a Steiner magnet as two of my ex GFs were former Steiner school pupils.
Do you by any chance have sheep?
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  #32  
Old 31.03.2011, 19:14
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Re: Steiner Schule

the steiner schools can be a soft option for those who for whatever reason don't fit in or can't manage in a normal school. however, they also have bright people in there. my ex-gf was from such a school and she was a straight-A student.

i think if you're brainy, it can be pretty good, cause you get all the fluffy clouds and bunny treatment (kind of a like the opposite of a finishing school - pre-conditioning school?) yet you are able to catch up and do well academically later on. not that it stopped me from mocking her mercilessly about drawing curves and straight lines

the steiner architecture is also rather funky. i lived in a steiner eco-village for a little while and it was pretty interesting.
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Old 31.03.2011, 21:08
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Re: Steiner Schule

As previously mentioned, I'm a Steiner parent.

Do I 100% buy into everything about Steiner? No
Do I think it is the "best" form of education? For my kids at this age and situation yes, for other kids at other ages, depends on the kid.
Do I think public school is bad? Not at all, but there are some parts I disagree with.
Am I a hippee? Yeah I guess I am a little bit, but I am also a tad bit Republican.

The time kids spend in school is only part of their eduaction, the rest they get from parents friends family. If you want school to be the only educator of your kids, I definitely don't suggest Steiner. On the other hand, if you want school to be the only educator of your kids, I do suggest you don't have kids.
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Old 31.03.2011, 21:33
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Re: Steiner Schule

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As previously mentioned, I'm a Steiner parent.

Do I 100% buy into everything about Steiner? No
Do I think it is the "best" form of education? For my kids at this age and situation yes, for other kids at other ages, depends on the kid.
Do I think public school is bad? Not at all, but there are some parts I disagree with.
Am I a hippee? Yeah I guess I am a little bit, but I am also a tad bit Republican.

The time kids spend in school is only part of their eduaction, the rest they get from parents friends family. If you want school to be the only educator of your kids, I definitely don't suggest Steiner. On the other hand, if you want school to be the only educator of your kids, I do suggest you don't have kids.
I like your post. Made me think (sorry if it sounds weird) about long debates over unschooling and homeschooling I used to have with some friends (who are die hard unschoolers or homeschoolers). And I agree with what you wrote. I think we expect too much from school, I think Steiner wouldn't satisfy the way I see a student ready to face the rest of the world, since the rest of the world's edu is wired differently. But if parents educate as well, take a lot more responsibility for their kid's education and complement what Waldorf offers, it can be a win win situ. I know for sure that it is not supposed to be universal and very versatile approach, more like a niche, tailored institution for people of certain mindset and life philosophy.
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Old 31.03.2011, 22:46
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Re: Steiner Schule

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The time kids spend in school is only part of their eduaction, the rest they get from parents friends family. If you want school to be the only educator of your kids, I definitely don't suggest Steiner. On the other hand, if you want school to be the only educator of your kids, I do suggest you don't have kids.
I hereby declare you a good parent. You can put that on your CV, it's a real distinction as I don't say that often.
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Old 01.04.2011, 22:19
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Re: Steiner Schule

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Fair enough - I had a former flatmate who went to Steiner school and she was the one who told me that this was the only thing she disagreed with, the Nazi aspect. Didn't have Wikipedia in those days to check the order of events instantly and then never did it later on, thanks for the clarification.

Oh and she was a bit odd too.
Steiner did drop a number of remarks that in today's thinking are extremely racist. For one he used the term "aryan" a couple of times, although his defenders say that he didn't use the word in the same way as the Nazis did. They say that in Steiner's vocabulary, all humans living in civilised societies are aryans. Maybe we can give him the benefit of the doubt there as the context works either way. Less forgivably though, he makes remarks saying such things as dark-skinned people being strongly dominated by their instincts, and that only light skinned blond people can reach the highest levels of intellectual insight. Most modern supporters, however, dodge around those statements, either admitting that Steiner was outright wrong or trying to explain away the context. They are definitely kept well away from anything that concerns teaching or schools, but every couple of years some smart journalist will dig up the relevant quotes and claim to have made some totally new and shocking discovery.
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Old 02.04.2011, 01:18
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Re: Steiner Schule

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They are definitely kept well away from anything that concerns teaching or schools, but every couple of years some smart journalist will dig up the relevant quotes and claim to have made some totally new and shocking discovery.
Did you watch the video I linked? The one in which a teacher described that they did learn this in the education and are still supposed to teach the stuff?
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Old 02.04.2011, 08:27
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Re: Steiner Schule

I haven't read all the posts so apologies if I'm repeating anyone.

Steiner and Montessori methods actually have alot in common. They're both aimed at allowing children to develop naturally. One big difference is that the Montessori method aims to root children in the real world, while Steiner tries to maintain their imaginary world (and thereby supposedly children are more creative).

Personally I prefer Steiner for little kids - I wanted my kids to develop their imagination - but it depends on the child and parent. At older ages it does seem that it is the more "alternative" parents who choose Steiner so you naturally end up with some self selection of the type of children who attend those schools. And they are different educationally so moving from Steiner to a regular school is not always easy for the child. Although I am surprised to hear that Steiner kids don't end up with a recognised degree because in Aus they do. I would have thought that they need to comply with the Canton curriculum unless they are international schools.

BTW, Maria Montessori developed her method initially with intellectually disabled kids. She then applied it in a low income area in Italy where the children had little structure/discipline at home and often both parents worked. It also doesn't suit all children, but it does seem to tie in better with "regular" schools.

(Source: my MIL who was a kindergarten director for many years until retiring recently.)

Sorry I didn't really answer your question comparing to public schools - my kids went international/bilingual here so I can't compare.
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  #39  
Old 04.04.2011, 09:39
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Re: Steiner Schule

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Steiner did drop a number of remarks that in today's thinking are extremely racist. For one he used the term "aryan" a couple of times, although his defenders say that he didn't use the word in the same way as the Nazis did. They say that in Steiner's vocabulary, all humans living in civilised societies are aryans. Maybe we can give him the benefit of the doubt there as the context works either way. Less forgivably though, he makes remarks saying such things as dark-skinned people being strongly dominated by their instincts, and that only light skinned blond people can reach the highest levels of intellectual insight. Most modern supporters, however, dodge around those statements, either admitting that Steiner was outright wrong or trying to explain away the context. They are definitely kept well away from anything that concerns teaching or schools, but every couple of years some smart journalist will dig up the relevant quotes and claim to have made some totally new and shocking discovery.
The racist comments are misunderstood. What Steiner meant by these comments is that the 5 races are at different levels in their development and evolution but spiritually all are of equal value. (Is that really racist?)
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Old 04.04.2011, 09:53
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The racist comments are misunderstood. What Steiner meant by these comments is that the 5 races are at different levels in their development and evolution but spiritually all are of equal value. (Is that really racist?)
yeah, kind of
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