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Old 25.03.2011, 17:14
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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I can only speak as someone who gave up the partner for the sake of my daughter. I left my husband as I had an affair in 2002. Over the next 4 1/2 years the man that I lived with verbally and emotionally abused my daughter. Eventually I woke up and smelled the coffee and made him leave. No man is worth losing your little girl for!
I hope Hullabaloo won't take my drawing attention to this the wrong way - I don't mean it as a criticism or judgment of her, not one iota - but this is important. This is very much the normal pattern. The first abusive incident is always a one-off. The first few months are 'he is just stressed at work'. It takes time to recognize an unhealthy relationship - even an abusive relationship - and finally act to end it.

That being the case, don't close any doors for your daughter. Right now it may not look like she will ever be able to have a constructive relationship with her mom again, but things can change. Don't let her build her life around that hope, but don't stamp on it either.

Not much else to add to what everyone else has already said: some counseling may be in order - other than that, just be there, stay there, and work on discovering what a new 'normal life' looks like for the two of you. I'll be praying for you.
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  #42  
Old 25.03.2011, 17:29
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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Is it selfish?
There's nothing to be ashamed of, in enjoying access to your daughter that has been - wrongfully - denied to you. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make it last after 10 years (?) of drought.

As an aside - many fathers have incredibly strong relationships with their daughters. Just because the "norm" might be a strong mother-daughter relationship, don't downplay your father-daughter relationship as "2nd tier".

I would re-iterate what Mathnut said...

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That being the case, don't close any doors for your daughter. Right now it may not look like she will ever be able to have a constructive relationship with her mom again, but things can change. Don't let her build her life around that hope, but don't stamp on it either.
Focus on getting her back to her new normal. Don't sink to a lower level by trying to distance her from her mother. You don't need to downplay the situation, but neither do you need to encourage any relationship. Rather focus on the here and now, and your relationship with her, which I guess after 10 years of absence will in itself be a challenge for you both.

Get it right, and even if she does go back, she will remember what you did for her at her time of need, and know that she has you (t)here when she needs you most.
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  #43  
Old 25.03.2011, 17:34
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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That's what worries me , that this has destroyed the relationship between Mother and Child. Painfully, for me to fix that, I would have to make efforts to repair the damage, to mend the relationship and I fear with the end result being losing my daughter again if she decides to back... It is against my own selfish interests , to get this matter resolved, and right now, I haven't got the strength of character to step in between and sort it all out, I am just far happier having her with me. Is it selfish ? If the boyfriend goes, my daughter would most likely want to go back, so I slip into easy mode and sit back whilst the Mother continues to destroy what's left of the relationship. I do not sleep easy at night with my conscience and double standards. What is really best for my duaghter is a loving relationship with her Mum, and yet I do nothing to progress this. Admittedly it is too early, and over my dead body whilst she maintains a relationship with her boyfriend, but eventually, one day, I fear losing my daughter again. There is a sick smirk somewhere inside me enjoying the current status quo.
if you are happy now having her which is only 3-4 weeks if i understand this right, then its normal and understood that at the moment you wont and dont do anything to put this right and sort the problem that her mother has caused. when your daughter has the desire to talk to her mom, getting into contact or does, wants any attempt to fix the relationship... you should encourage and support that. i think you will do then as you love your daughter and you want all the best for her. on the other hand you need to tell her that a) she never from nobody has to accept such violent treatment b) its not her fault, but the BF/moms fault. she has to find out herself if her mom is a mean person, fight for herself for her mom, sort all the bits n pieces of what lead to this and to figure out if she will forgive her or...break up the bond...
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Old 25.03.2011, 17:56
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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Positive thinking, but the Mother persist in emotional cruelty...
I am sending you a pm...
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Old 25.03.2011, 18:04
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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Can any Mum explain or shed light on the hold a man can have over someone to break such a bond ?
A man can do only what a woman let him do.... If he does act like this, it is because she let him do it. If someone touch a hair of my daughter, I don't care who it is, the person will be send to hospital.

NO MAN WILL EVER BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN MY KIDS!!! THEIR FATHER INCLUDED!
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Old 25.03.2011, 18:12
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

Listen to Nil s reaction rather than what she says. It will tell you everything. If you want to gain your daughters confidence forget about all the stories and show her you are solid behind her. No nonsense no hand wringing. If you touch my daughter you will pay. That is the only way you will gain her confidence and her trust. Fight for her and (I'm sorry mate) stop being a pussy about it.
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Old 25.03.2011, 18:16
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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Listen to Nil s reaction rather than what she says. It will tell you everything. If you want to gain your daughters confidence forget about all the stories and show her you are solid behind her. No nonsense no hand wringing. If you touch my daughter you will pay. That is the only way you will gain her confidence and her trust. Fight for her and (I'm sorry mate) stop being a pussy about it.
...and end up with a restraining/non molestation order for a year ?
Been there, it was served by the courts via my Hotmail account.
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Old 25.03.2011, 18:32
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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...and end up with a restraining/non molestation order for a year ?
Been there, it was served by the courts via my Hotmail account.
You can show that you will fight tooth and nail to protect her in other ways too - like the legal route. The most important thing now is not to question why it happened, but how to move forward - because sometimes there is no answer to certain actions of human beings which make us question humanity sometimes.

Most important thing is that she is safe with you here. Rebuilding her self confidence and trust is the next important step.

Dont worry about what if the ex comes back after her relationship is over, wanting your daughter back home. Its for your daughter to decide - just be there to support her decision. Having a strong father figure behind her will help her and give her tremendous strength. The world needs more fathers like you Herr UTH. Never forget that.
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Old 25.03.2011, 19:13
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

All can be done and there is no excuse for a mother to leave her child to others UNLESS is for the child own good. and maybe that is what happened, your ex is so messed up with this guy and she knows she will go down but at least she can do something good for her girl, at least she can send her to you and it means she knows how a great father you are. Maybe you could handle the situation telling your daughter that her mom is in a dark phase and she didnt want her to go down along, its not because she did something wrong (your girl) , and you need to emphatize that is not her fault.

My father left my mom and I when I was 1yo, he was a drug abuser. She never told me coz she remarried before I even knew that my father was not my biological father. the point is that I really apreciate what he did, I have no bad feelings for him at all, or any. But I do really THANK him very much for the decision he made, because I had the oportunity to live a much better life instead of a life full of darkness with drugs and rehabs etc. He, by leaving, gave me the oportunity to have an amazing father who cares about me like his own child, he loves my mom every day more and more and my 2 boys are for him the best (My first son is named after him) When my biological father left I never had a step father, but a real DAD!

The point is, cruel or not, your ex made the right desicion and your girl will some day understand that.

I will have you and her in my prayers.
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Old 25.03.2011, 19:39
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

A wonderful insight Coco.Nails, thank you x
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Old 25.03.2011, 19:57
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

I believe counselling is a good option but you should also look at what one person mentionned earlier, try to let her pursue something she likes. Find a hobby that she has always wanted to do but was not allowed / not able. She should be able to "enjoy" herself. With other people that like the same things she does. Does she like children? If so let her attend a babysitter class and she could do some babysitting in the neighbourhood. I know I started babysitting at that age and I loved it. It might help her to think of other things. I don't know you or your daughter but I thought maybe that could help. All the best for you two!

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  #52  
Old 25.03.2011, 20:04
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

Only just caught up with this thread- and I am so sorry you have to go through this. I live too far away to give any practical support - but perhaps there are some families near you with kids the same age who could offer to have you and daughter over so she can makes friends. And/or perhaps an older 'grand-mother' figure who can give female support and a hug.
Thinking you you 2 and wish you both the very best.
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  #53  
Old 25.03.2011, 20:13
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

Unfortunately, I know a little about this both as a child and as a parent, although there was no violence:

Child: My mother did the same thing, although there were slight differences- I was a little older (just 18) and my father had just died and I was told "I never want to see you again". I had no one to turn to, no where to go. Legally I was an adult, but my childhood was gone. Tbh, people took me and were kind, but I never trusted her again. Your daughter is lucky she has someone.

As a parent: Miss L-P's father did it to her, he chose his new life over the life he created. I suppose I drew on my own experience and have hopefully saved her confidence in men. She does now have a relationship with her father but it is still fragile- she never speaks her mind because she is too scared he will leave again. When it happened she was just 8 and I gave her the choice about seeing therapist; she went 4 times and said "that is enough". Her greatest fears have/were about abandonment- so for the last 7.5 years I have reassured her that no matter what Mummy is here for her, unconditionally.

My suggestion is to be there all the time for your daughter, reassure her, let her vent, let her cry, let her laugh, and try to not put down that other horrid person- because the child still loves them. I also gave up having a social life for years, her needs were more important than mine. I only went out to work. Finally, I didn't molly-coddle her, she still was disciplined when her behaviour went too far and likewise she was congratulated on good things.

It's been 7.5 years now and as mentioned she does not always have confidence in her father, but she does in me and most importantly she has confidence in herself. Those memories of that time are still there, but she has so many more of unconditional love that I think she will be alright.
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  #54  
Old 25.03.2011, 20:14
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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That's what worries me , that this has destroyed the relationship between Mother and Child. Painfully, for me to fix that, I would have to make efforts to repair the damage, to mend the relationship and I fear with the end result being losing my daughter again if she decides to back... It is against my own selfish interests , to get this matter resolved, and right now, I haven't got the strength of character to step in between and sort it all out, I am just far happier having her with me. Is it selfish ? If the boyfriend goes, my daughter would most likely want to go back, so I slip into easy mode and sit back whilst the Mother continues to destroy what's left of the relationship. I do not sleep easy at night with my conscience and double standards. What is really best for my duaghter is a loving relationship with her Mum, and yet I do nothing to progress this. Admittedly it is too early, and over my dead body whilst she maintains a relationship with her boyfriend, but eventually, one day, I fear losing my daughter again. There is a sick smirk somewhere inside me enjoying the current status quo.
This is not your responsibility, don't load guilt on you - the mother has to work on that, not you.

As you were asking, don't try to make sense of the behavior of your ex, or to find some logic in her actions. Not all mothers love their children. It is a myth that all females are emotionally and mentally capable to be caring and loving their babies. Very sad, but that's the way it is.

From your posts, the ex seems to be seriously mentally instable - 25 year older guy as a lover, now a violent psycho boyfriend, abusive against her own daughter etc. (When first reading this thread I thought this mother sounds like someone who is borderline or schizophrenic.)
Seems to be better your daughter is out of this situation, and has limited contact to the mother. Same for your other kid.

Is there a grandmother, aunt or other female in the family who could get involved in the upbringing of your daughter?
(You seem to be a great dad, but the girl will need overtime also a female in her life she can relate to.)



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CAFCASS, Police , School Welfare , NPCC and the courts all got involved. Apparently, you have to leave marks on a child before abuse can be proved. Apparently, I stepped in too soon.

I don't know the situation in UK courts, but it might help if a psychologist who counsels your daughter take a stand as witness in this matter?

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...and end up with a restraining/non molestation order for a year ?
Been there
Don't take that.


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Maybe you could handle the situation telling your daughter that her mom is in a dark phase and she didnt want her to go down along, its not because she did something wrong (your girl) , and you need to emphatize that is not her fault.
Very good advice.
Your daughter is too young to handle the madness of her mother.
When she is older she will be able to work through everything that has happened, at the moment just tell her anything that will comfort her.

All the best!
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Old 25.03.2011, 20:15
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

If this does not make the toughest lumberjack reach for some Kleenex I don`t now what will I hope you get all the right support you need,good luck.Still shaking Head in disbelief

Last edited by cannut; 25.03.2011 at 20:32.
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  #56  
Old 25.03.2011, 20:35
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

Of course , CJ is right behind us and has carelessly been left out of this discussion, without her, I would be a male wreck...
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Old 25.03.2011, 20:50
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

I think you should also work on helping her find friends. There are groups at the WAC in Uster, or there is a Girl Power group in Wollerau. They are often bilingual kids as well, which will help her feel like she can fit in somewhere.
She needs you, but she also needs her own circle, to help her feel normal again, and have fun.
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Old 25.03.2011, 20:52
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

I'm quite shocked. What a situation for you and your daughter.

I can only echo some voices in the posts above: be there for her and don't let her in any way think that it might be her fault.

Being so strong UTH, I'm sure both of you will be fine.

Unfortunately I cannot give a good advice (lacking the experience), but really wish all of you lots of strength and positive energy to overcome and look back at some time with a feeling that "yes, we managed, it was bad, but we made it - together".

My thoughts to you.
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Old 25.03.2011, 21:15
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

really sorry to read this story, glad she had the gumption to up sticks and come to you.

Are there any people on the forum with similar age girls who could spend some time with her? I imagine it must be very daunting arriving in a foreign country and going to state school, she could do with a few friends to go to the cinema with etc.. and make her feel more at home

I really hope it all works out for you all
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Old 25.03.2011, 21:42
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

I'm very sorry to hear about the horrible situation you find your family in and wish you the very best.

It sounds like your daughter already has the main thing she needs to find her way back to a normal, happy life. She has a father who loves and deeply cares about her and is attempting to give her a stable, secure life.

As where2 has suggested, I'd also try to get her in contact with some other young ladies around the same age. Maybe some who speak english as their first language (other EF members children?) and who can commiserate with the changes she's experiencing but also act as a good example that integrating and learning a new language is possible? It won't heal the hurt of losing the friends she's left behind, but it might make settling in a little easier.

Wishing you and your daughter peace, stability and happiness
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