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Old 25.03.2011, 15:35
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What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

Background

My 12 year old daughter arrived out of the blue in February, her Mum phoned me up on a Sunday to say she would be arriving on the Monday. My daughter arrived in shock, deeply hurt and a little afraid. Turns out her Mum's boyfriend, X is a violent man and that my daughter claims he has been abusing her physically and emtionally (claims of holding her up against the wall by the throat, filiming her on his mobile whilst crying and threatening to put it on youtube, manhandling her generally and threatening to have her put in a orphenage, threatening to move in and sort her out blah blah) The mother has been taunting our daughter saying that she is going to sell all her stuff and rent her room out now she is with me, her Mother refuses to answer txt messages or questions about when she will see her daughter again).

It's all awful, my daughter is still traumatised, is in tears most nights, and I am at a loss as to how to bring it home to her that her Mother has chosen a boyfriend above her, and that she may never have a proper relationship with her Mum again). I can't understand it or explain it myself.

This week in court, I won an uncontested residency hearing (CAFCAS were involved and recommended shared residency, I objected as it was not practical and did not reflect the reality surrounding my daughters residency, the Judge agreed... Ironically I have been fighting the courts and the Mother for 10 years to try and get decent contact with my kids. It is obvious to me the Mother has exiled her daughter to me in an attempt to hush the matter up.


I am at a loss to explain this, and how to proceed with my daughter. Right now I am just happy for her to be with me and move forward one small step at a time. The sudden upheaval, loss of friends , enrolled in a foreign language school, away from her brother...Her Mum has just suddenly stopped caring, and can't be bothered to communicate properly with her.

Where do I even start ??? How can I put this to my daughter in a way that she might cope with.

Last edited by economisto; 25.03.2011 at 16:26. Reason: No personal details, especially involving potentially active court actions/appeals
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Old 25.03.2011, 15:40
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

Your daughter will make it through, she has you as a father.
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Old 25.03.2011, 15:40
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

Probably difficult from where you are, but if what she says is true, shouldn't this be a police matter re the abuse?
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Old 25.03.2011, 15:41
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

Could it be that her mother is trying to shield the girl from the violent boyfriend? The way she reacts does not look like it but I am just trying to be a little bit positive about all those negative things you mention.

Sorry that you and your girl (probably the rest of the kids) had to go through such a horrible experience
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Old 25.03.2011, 15:45
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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Probably difficult from where you are, but if what she says is true, shouldn't this be a police matter re the abuse?

CAFCASS, Police , School Welfare , NPCC and the courts all got involved. Apparently, you have to leave marks on a child before abuse can be proved. Apparently, I stepped in too soon.
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Old 25.03.2011, 15:45
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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Could it be that her mother is trying to shield the girl from the violent boyfriend? The way she reacts does not look like it but I am just trying to be a little bit positive about all those negative things you mention.

Sorry that you and your girl (probably the rest of the kids) had to go through such a horrible experience
Positive thinking, but the Mother persist in emotional cruelty...
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Old 25.03.2011, 15:45
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

The important thing is that your daughter is in a safe place for now.

The ongoing abuse would only traumatise her further.


Just give her the support she needs for now, and the understanding will come with time.


Good luck Upthehatters...... but I'm pretty sure (as those who have met you will probably agree) that you're a strong enough bloke to get yourself and your daughter through this.



All the best.
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Old 25.03.2011, 15:47
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

OMG! speechless! how in the world can a mother be together with a man that is violent against a 12yr old girl??? how can a man do all this to a child? why is she sending her away, the brother can stay? is it maybe she feels the competition? wtf? its horrible!
i mean under these circumstances i wouldnt want her to be back with her. though i would try to keep it up getting to speak to her "mother". the whole thing i guess puts your world upside down, but... be brave, clench fists! its will be at ease soon, cant rain all the time...
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Old 25.03.2011, 15:53
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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... Ironically I have been fighting the courts and the Mother for 10 years to try and get decent contact with my kids. It is obvious to me the Mother has exiled her daughter to me in an attempt to hush the matter up.
What about the others? Are they in danger?
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Old 25.03.2011, 15:55
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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What about the others? Are they in danger?

My son, 14 years , is under the mentorship of this idiot in his Gym... being trained in kickboxing etc. My role as a Father is diminished , and my influence not what it should be. This I have no control over so I have have had very little to do but accept the fact.
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Old 25.03.2011, 15:57
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

In this situation all you can do is make it clear to your son that you will always be there for him When he is older & wiser chances are he will come looking for you if he knows the door is still open.

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My son, 14 years , is under the mentorship of this idiot in his Gym... being trained in kickboxing etc. My role as a Father is diminished , and my influence not what it should be. This I have no control over so I have have had very little to do but accept the fact.
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Old 25.03.2011, 15:58
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

This guy seems a piece of work, cage fighter my arse.

What a moron, probably pumped up on steroids with a high opinion of himself as he's "hard"

Now who do I know in Cardiff that works for the plods?

These sorts should be castrated with rusy pliers in full view of the public outside the national assembly.

You're daughters safe and in a loving environment that's all the matters she's old enough to know what's happening and in a few years time it will be her beating her mother with emotional volleys. Don't worry too much she'll work it out.
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Old 25.03.2011, 15:59
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

what a horrible situation for you both! Your post can only give so much information, but my biggest suggestion would be if you aren't already, find someone she can talk to other than just you! My mom was a counsellor for troubled kids/teens for years and so I have zero experience myself, I had a chance to meet a lot of them at her work place and heard all kinds of stories - many of which were amazing recovery stories!

A trained psychologist or child counsellor would be best, and it should be someone who can also involve you. If you go to church, a pastor would also be someone to ask if they have any training/experience in counselling or can recommend someone who may. She is traumatized and needs to have someone objective help guide her thoughts.

Just telling her nothing will be the same again with her mother may be too hard for her to hear, and it may not be true. Chances are she is also being abused, and one day she may seek help herself and realize what she has done - until, and if, that happens, it will be key to protect your daughter from further trauma, so it might be best if the no contact continues.

Your daughter can come through this, but it is going to take time and a lot of encouragement. She also needs to be reminded every day what a normal, healthy relationship with a male father figure is supposed to be like which is definitely your biggest job now.

Small steps will be the goal...and one day you will look back to see that you have covered a lot of ground even if it may not feel like it when you are in the moment. Good luck and find some extra support for yourself through all this as well!!
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Old 25.03.2011, 16:00
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

On a side-issue, we've just had our first round of contact with the school psychologist at Adliswil for our similar-aged daughter, and we are quite impressed. The psychologist was a very gentle, peaceful lady, and she really had an impact on our daughter...just having someone to talk to who acknowledges that you find life a bit hard being a foreigner in a foreign place was awesome for her!

Our issues are more adjustment/school related, but I'm sure they could help out a bit with the transition to school if you feel like she needs a bit more help...she focused mostly on some issues that our daughter has with the school situation, how the other kids relate to her, and her thoughts about herself, and the educational side of things.

I wonder if it's actually possible for you to get your hands on some of your daughter's personal belongings ? And I guess ultimately, she is going to need assurance that you will be there for her, rain hail or shine, regardless of how she tests your boundaries or behaves in public, school or whatever...good luck!

I would definitely assume that this excuse for a man is abusive to the mother of your children too - but you can't fight her battle for her - just make lots of plans that involve your daughter's wellbeing, and give her time...

There is a service in zurich called the 'mädchen house' - it's a refuge service for young women who can't live at home - I'm sure your daughter needs to be living with you right now, but they might have counsellors that can talk to her about what she has been through, and perhaps give you some appropriate advice on how to handle things at home.

As for the whole 'what does the future hold' - I think as an adult you can think about those things, but my 11 year old daughter doesn't have a huge concept of what is coming in the future - she's more stressed by the challenges of each day, the start of adolscence, and what is happening around her in the here and now.

Best of luck and sorry to hear that it was the parents-worst-nightmare situation that has given you your daughter...
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Old 25.03.2011, 16:02
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

And I thought I had worries.

Hatters, gut wrenching, heart warming. Respect, strength and courage to you. You sound like good people and I hope you can hold on to your daughter and teach her that humanity has heart, even though she has a reason not to believe it.
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Old 25.03.2011, 16:04
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

How absolutely awful! I am very sorry to hear about this.

About your daughter: unfortunately, there is not much you can do about her mother or in terms of explaining her mother's actions to her. Having been in a somewhat similar position (13, new country, foreign language, no abuse but death in the family), I would say it is essential that your daughter has a safe place now: a good school with an understanding of the situation and friends that she can be a 12 year old with. That will enable her to keep on living and eventually deal with the mess of her mother. That you seem to be in a position to give her the emotional love and stability she needs is the best thing that could happen to her. Focus on the positive, for her sake, and not on the abuse, the shitty boyfriend or the danger you think your son/her brother may be in. This doesn't mean ignore it but it is important that she not be completely burdened down with the situation and can have an environment where she can grow safely in every sense of the word.

I wish you and your daughter the best of luck. It might not seem like it now but coming to Switzerland to you is probably one of the better things that could have happened to your daughter.
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Old 25.03.2011, 16:04
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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but my biggest suggestion would be if you aren't already, find someone she can talk to other than just you!
I agree, a trip to register her with the Dr and get a counsellor involved, is the logical next step.
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Old 25.03.2011, 16:04
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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My son, 14 years , is under the mentorship of this idiot in his Gym... being trained in kickboxing etc. My role as a Father is diminished , and my influence not what it should be. This I have no control over so I have have had very little to do but accept the fact.
Terrible.

3rd party counselling, IMO, should help your daughter on top of what you are doing - my rationale is that you are not unbiased and are not an unaffected party, which could confuse your daughter or make it harder to take your help (in a weird kinda way). Having such a person might help, as I guess they should be specialised in dealing with children's emotional issues/harm. Indeed it might help you to speak to that person separately too. Not for counselling, in your case, but rather so that you can get a more informed opinion about how you can help further.

After all, we're all just desk-jockeys here...

Good luck to your daughter and you. At least she is safe for now.
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Old 25.03.2011, 16:10
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

I can only speak as someone who gave up the partner for the sake of my daughter. I left my husband as I had an affair in 2002. Over the next 4 1/2 years the man that I lived with verbally and emotionally abused my daughter. Eventually I woke up and smelled the coffee and made him leave. No man is worth losing your little girl for!

A few years down the road I am happily married to a wonderful man who loves my daughter like she is his own! My guilt will never leave me, but knowing I absolutely did the right thing, eases that pain.

Your daughter will be fine, I think personally that she is old enough to understand the truth and hopefully in time your ex will realise that this man is not the person for her.

I guess I will reiterate a previous comment, in the meantime your daughter is very lucky to have you!

Good Luck
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Old 25.03.2011, 16:12
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Re: What makes a Mum give up a daughter ?

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CAFCASS, Police , School Welfare , NPCC and the courts all got involved. Apparently, you have to leave marks on a child before abuse can be proved. Apparently, I stepped in too soon.
I rather early than later in this case.

Poor girl - must be so traumatising for her. An experience that no one should ever go through. I dont know what else to say but perhaps, have a chat with her to see if she wants any other type of support like counselling. It might be easier for her to open up to another party, especially a professional to work through this confusion and hurt - than you who is also emotionally involved.

Another idea will be to start finding her activities to get involved in. Is she interested in a particular hobby that she can choose to pursue further and channel her energy into? Art? Music? I know she is new to this foreign country, but sometimes a distraction like that will really help take her mind off things.

Be patient. You seem to be doing the best you can.

EDIT: just read that there was a similar piece of advice above re counselling. Just hang in there UTH. With you helping her through this, she will heal in time.
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Last edited by summerrain; 25.03.2011 at 16:26.
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