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Old 07.12.2016, 19:40
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

"Dealing with chocolate" made me laugh

Of course that drone dragon parents are not the answer to anything, when you think about it. But it is still love and attention, even when completely overdone and maybe misguided. The people who know this the most, though, are the kids. They often tolerate and understand and find some way to maneuvre the ott pressure and too much love. We can nag all we can now how awfully suffocating too much of parental love can be. It is and it annoys me too, the impact is crazy. It is still better by any means than negligence. I think what we can see as overly attentive, can simply sometimes be the parents knowing exactly what their kid needs. Kids need trust, of course, but so do parents. They should not be free for all to criticize and pick on because of what to some cool folks or new pedagogy currently seems trendy to nitpick on. Happy medium. And who are we to stick our noses in what others should consider "medium"? If there are stressed out parents anywhere and unhappy kids, it is better to offer help to the parents instead of criticising them. Parents being criticised by others, usually results in more unhappy kids.

In my experience and in a long run, overly involved still seems better to deal with than an uninvolved parent and lack of love.
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  #102  
Old 07.12.2016, 20:11
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

The child I saw by himself today at the tram stop couldn't have been more than 6 or 7 years old. He bought a multiple-journey ticket with the machine and stood on his tippy toes to pay with coins. Once he had the ticket he stamped it. He waited for the tram to stop, stood aside for others to exit and climbed on. His feet dangled so high off the seat, I'm not sure how he got down to leave the tram. Cute kid, very self-confident. It made me smile.

I can't imagine ever seeing such a thing in the U.S.
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  #103  
Old 07.12.2016, 23:15
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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The child I saw by himself today at the tram stop couldn't have been more than 6 or 7 years old. He bought a multiple-journey ticket with the machine and stood on his tippy toes to pay with coins. Once he had the ticket he stamped it. He waited for the tram to stop, stood aside for others to exit and climbed on. His feet dangled so high off the seat, I'm not sure how he got down to leave the tram. Cute kid, very self-confident. It made me smile.

I can't imagine ever seeing such a thing in the U.S.
I don't think it's solely European but it does feel good here in terms of children's autonomy, doesn't it.. We are fortunate. The parents I know in the US wish they could bring up their kids the same autonomous and safe way.
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  #104  
Old 07.12.2016, 23:17
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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The parents I know in the US wish they could bring up their kids the same autonomous and safe way.
Mine did.

Tom
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  #105  
Old 07.12.2016, 23:37
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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I'm feeling like I was neglected...
I know I was. But boy did I make the most of it!
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  #106  
Old 08.12.2016, 00:21
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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When mine were 9 and 11, they went to Milan by themselves to visit their cousin (my niece from VT) who was going to school there. Several times. Without a cell phone.

Tom
When I was 13 I flew to Ecuador and back alone. On stand-by which meant a lot of hanging around in Frankfurt and New York, waiting for a free seat.

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Totally agree. There is nothing worse than a child/teenager who has no hope, no dreams, depressed with feelings of worthlessness..

Many a decent teacher spends years attempting to put the hope back where it should be.
What makes you think less attended kids have no hope, no dreams and feelings of worthlessness? More of it all if anything. And we made them come true as far as possible (and beyond the "possible") because we knew if we don't do it ourselves, nobody will.

The kids you describe are more like the kids of today, me think. They got it all and are bored with it, have little to no fantasy and no energy.
My neighbours kids are 24/7 with their parents. The mother is hysteric and screams the moment a kid moves, the father makes sure the kid knows at all times that the only way to do things right is his way - even when it comes to "baking sand cakes". The kid is about 3 years old and I'm sure it already hates it's own name, having heard it a trillion times a day .... xy don't, xy not like that, yx stop, xy I told you 5 times, xy..... give this creature some space I wanna shout sometimes.

Sure there are many growing up the "middle-way" which is great and enviable.
And having read the little remarks here and there of Tom over the course of this year I often thought he seems to have been a great dad.
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  #107  
Old 08.12.2016, 13:16
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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I know I was. But boy did I make the most of it!
Having two working parents who were quite busy with their jobs and household chores, I spent quite a lot of time doing things on my own without any supervising...and not only I did very well, but I enjoyed it all along.
Seriously, although I never felt that way, I guess that according to the new standards you can say that..
Balance is key me thinks....but probably middle way is the hardest to find and parents having too much time on their hands doesn't really help.
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  #108  
Old 08.12.2016, 13:32
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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What makes you think less attended kids have no hope, no dreams and feelings of worthlessness? More of it all if anything. And we made them come true as far as possible (and beyond the "possible") because we knew if we don't do it ourselves, nobody will.
I am not talking about less attended kids, but kids who are ignored, unacknowledged, no emotional footholds, fail to aspire to anything or have dreams, feel worthless, are often criticized, devoid of praise. Plenty of kids like that.. teachers are often the ones to put something back in. Independence is wonderful if you have been taught how to do the basics with praise and support .. then happily and full of confidence off kids go: if they fall, they get back up and go again. Sadly, without the solid foundations there, kids don't get very far unfortunately..

Ken Loach's Kes is as valid today as it was when it was made in the 70s.
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  #109  
Old 08.12.2016, 13:48
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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I am not talking about less attended kids, but kids who are ignored, unacknowledged, no emotional footholds, fail to aspire to anything or have dreams, feel worthless, are often criticized, devoid of praise. Plenty of kids like that.. teachers are often the ones to put something back in. Independence is wonderful if you have been taught how to do the basics with praise and support .. then happily and full of confidence off kids go: if they fall, they get back up and go again. Sadly, without the solid foundations there, kids don't get very far unfortunately..

Ken Loach's Kes is as valid today as it was when it was made in the 70s.
I was talking about the same ones. And it can lead to/trigger huge aspiration believe me.

I'm really not promoting that kind of youth - it sucks - but I'm saying the outcome is not necessarily as you said.

I read somewhere once that parents now set up cameras in kindergarten (don't remember which country that was) and mummy can watch her kid whenever she wants. Someone like that produces "big-brother-kids" and I sometimes wonder if those kids once they grow up will be so used to be watched over/protected that they don't learn taking care of themselves?
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  #110  
Old 08.12.2016, 13:58
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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I was talking about the same ones. And it can lead to/trigger huge aspiration believe me.

I'm really not promoting that kind of youth - it sucks - but I'm saying the outcome is not necessarily as you said.

I read somewhere once that parents now set up cameras in kindergarten (don't remember which country that was) and mummy can watch her kid whenever she wants. Someone like that produces "big-brother-kids" and I sometimes wonder if those kids once they grow up will be so used to be watched over/protected that they don't learn taking care of themselves?
Yes, I get you.. and agree about the K Garten camera, but don't agree about ignored kids can always trigger success.. if that has happened, it's usually down to some adult somewhere in the child's/teenager's life who has encouraged and supported them. They don't get anywhere in a vacuum, support is necessary at key points in their young lives e.g. boxing coach, ballet/dancing teacher, music/drama teacher, writing etc.

Where there's an absent emotionally unavailable parent, but an encouraging teacher, there's always hope.

Teachers are awesome!
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  #111  
Old 08.12.2016, 14:03
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

I had both of my parents working with no means to get a sitter or something.

At 9, I was doing most of my stuff on my own, cooking,tidying up, homework(when to start and finish), etc. They were sending me to my grandparents with a 12 hour bus drive.

To this day, I can not stress how thankful I am for all those as it really gave me the sense of responsibility, trying to find solutions,adaptability,etc.

My parents didn't really attend but I think they did a great choice.

That being said, I do not think the helicopter parents are doing it all for the good of the kid but also for their self satisfaction and give their parenting role to a some kind of meaning. Maybe they like the feeling of somebody depends on them.
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  #112  
Old 08.12.2016, 14:06
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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Yes, I get you.. and agree about the K Garten camera, but don't agree about ignored kids can always trigger success.. if that has happened, it's usually down to some adult somewhere in the child's/teenager's life who had encourage and supported them. They don't get anywhere in a vacuum, support is necessary at key points in their young lives e.g. boxing coach, ballet/dancing teacher, music/drama teacher, writing etc.

Where's there's an absent emotionally unavailable parent, but an encouraging teacher, there's always hope.

Teachers are awesome!
Where did you see always? Not very often probably but this reaction is happening. Friends. Friends is the key-word here

You're absolutely right, teachers can do a good job in such cases - they are complaining now-a-days in Switzerland though that parents simply hand over the "up-bringing" to them. On the other hand they don't like the helicopter parents either. I just realize - teachers are as good at complaining as the farmers here
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  #113  
Old 08.12.2016, 14:09
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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Teachers are awesome!
Teachers can be awesome even for those who benefit from parental over-protection, how many times you heard that someone did their best in subjects towards which they weren't particularly inclined only because the teacher was great on all levels.. and the opposite, smart kids losing their interest because the teacher had nothing in common with pedagogy...They all need awesome teachers.
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  #114  
Old 08.12.2016, 14:41
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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The child I saw by himself today at the tram stop couldn't have been more than 6 or 7 years old. He bought a multiple-journey ticket with the machine and stood on his tippy toes to pay with coins. Once he had the ticket he stamped it. He waited for the tram to stop, stood aside for others to exit and climbed on. His feet dangled so high off the seat, I'm not sure how he got down to leave the tram. Cute kid, very self-confident. It made me smile.

I can't imagine ever seeing such a thing in the U.S.
Stories like this are why I will be raising a child (or multiple) in Switzerland. I genuinely can't think of a better place to have kids (ignoring factors such as government support etc).
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  #115  
Old 08.12.2016, 14:56
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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Teachers can be awesome even for those who benefit from parental over-protection, how many times you heard that someone did their best in subjects towards which they weren't particularly inclined only because the teacher was great on all levels.. and the opposite, smart kids losing their interest because the teacher had nothing in common with pedagogy...They all need awesome teachers.
I digress but this leads me on to something I was discussing this morning. Do teachers need to be academic (e.g. have degrees in subject before undertaking pedology degree for school, pass the matura for KG). I understand for secondary school, but for younger children I think that the best teachers are not always the most academically minded people, but rather the more empathic nurturing type people that do not always do so well at those type of standardised tests. Of course, teacher training appropriate to the age of children is essential, but do you need a degree in literature to teach 6 year olds to read?
Speaking as an academic person, I can see that I would not be great at teaching younger kids because I do not have the right temperament to deal with tantrums (I could just about manage my own child when she was 5, I couldn't cope with 20 of them).
Back to the subject in hand, I am considered a helicopter parent here but a lax parent in the UK... so I guess, on average, I'm OK?

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  #116  
Old 08.12.2016, 15:05
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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Yes, I get you.. and agree about the K Garten camera, but don't agree about ignored kids can always trigger success.. if that has happened, it's usually down to some adult somewhere in the child's/teenager's life who has encouraged and supported them. They don't get anywhere in a vacuum, support is necessary at key points in their young lives e.g. boxing coach, ballet/dancing teacher, music/drama teacher, writing etc.

Where there's an absent emotionally unavailable parent, but an encouraging teacher, there's always hope.

Mentors are awesome!


And that is why a child neglect by its parents will most likely do better than a totally hampered, overprotected, and spoilt brat. Not only will the neglected child learn independence sooner and better Aka get streetwise. But also thankfully there are many good souls which will teach and guide the kid. The overprotected ones will never get in touch or will be shielded from such experiences.

Little Lena does not want to be a bee in ballet? Little Lena does not have to be anything if little Lena does not wish. If Lena does not like the Violine Lena may try the Guitar. Boxing? Are you freaking serious? Little Lena does not like to get touched. Yes, little Lena can eat the dessert now. Mommy eats Lenas salad. Yes, Mommy drives Little Lena to Sweety Sue (across the effing street). Yes call Mommy if Sue is mean to Lena. Mommy waits outside in the car.

These kids will be pray for the streetwise one. Many "business" opportunities how you can exploit them.

But the worst that can happen? Such a spoilt brat who most successfully learnt how to manipulate its parents gets into politics. Wait...
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  #117  
Old 08.12.2016, 18:38
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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Mommy eats Lenas salad.
you wish. I used to stuff the salad into the back of my cheeks like a hamster. After the effing midday nap I could spit it out.
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  #118  
Old 08.12.2016, 19:19
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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Little Lena does not want to be a bee in ballet? Little Lena does not have to be anything if little Lena does not wish. If Lena does not like the Violine Lena may try the Guitar. Boxing? Are you freaking serious? Little Lena does not like to get touched. Yes, little Lena can eat the dessert now. Mommy eats Lenas salad. ..
Lol, I really have to show this post to my South-Korean friend. This type of mentality is simply unknown over there.
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