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Old 05.04.2011, 15:02
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Which kinderwagen [pram/stroller] to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

After doing a bit of looking around, I came to the conclusion that Switzerland loves Bugaboo - Cameleon and Frog. Every other mom I see seems to own either one of these two.
But I dont think I'd like to spend so much on a kinderwagen.
So could anyone give some advice or share their experience on which one of the affordable ones they'd recommend? I am considering ABC Design, but Hauck also seems to have nice strollers that are inexpensive. I havent seen many of them around here, so thought of checking with the EFers.
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Old 05.04.2011, 15:22
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Re: Which kinderwagen to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

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After doing a bit of looking around, I came to the conclusion that Switzerland loves Bugaboo - Cameleon and Frog. Every other mom I see seems to own either one of these two.
But I dont think I'd like to spend so much on a kinderwagen.
So could anyone give some advice or share their experience on which one of the affordable ones they'd recommend? I am considering ABC Design, but Hauck also seems to have nice strollers that are inexpensive. I havent seen many of them around here, so thought of checking with the EFers.
Ebay and Riccardo (Swiss Ebay) are littered with secondhand Bugaboos so, if you fancied one without spending a whole wad of money, that might be the way to go.
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Old 05.04.2011, 15:30
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Re: Which kinderwagen to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

How do you see yourself using the buggy? Are you in a city, so will be spending the majority of your time hopping on and off public transport, or do you live in the countryside? Will this be from newborn (so you need a relatively lie flat option to start with)? Will you be putting buggy in and out of a car (so need one that easily collapses)? Do you have a preference for how you would like your baby to travel (eg. I wanted a pram for the first few months so they could lie absolutely flat and ironically I was right as eldest son has a back deformity which could have been aggravated if not lying flat when so little - but I didn't know that then ..) Do you want a wheel frame you can attach a car seat to?

If you can tell us a bit more about what sort of use your buggy will be put to, we can help you with our recommendations.

But my overriding advice is .. your needs change as the baby grows and you become more adventurous with going out etc. Steer clear of believing buggy manufacturers who say that this is the one buggy that will suit you from birth until 3. It won't be. Over 2 children, I owned 3 buggies, 4 if you include the one I bought to replace one that broke. If I had my time again, I would still want the luxury-bed-on-wheels-lie-flat-pram option from birth but would buy it second hand so that I could concentrate on spending cash on a new buggy for when they are 6/9 months plus and at that stage buy a great buggy which will see me through until walking and beyond.
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Old 05.04.2011, 17:07
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Re: Which kinderwagen to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

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How do you see yourself using the buggy? Are you in a city, so will be spending the majority of your time hopping on and off public transport, or do you live in the countryside? Will this be from newborn (so you need a relatively lie flat option to start with)? Will you be putting buggy in and out of a car (so need one that easily collapses)? Do you have a preference for how you would like your baby to travel (eg. I wanted a pram for the first few months so they could lie absolutely flat and ironically I was right as eldest son has a back deformity which could have been aggravated if not lying flat when so little - but I didn't know that then ..) Do you want a wheel frame you can attach a car seat to?

If you can tell us a bit more about what sort of use your buggy will be put to, we can help you with our recommendations.

But my overriding advice is .. your needs change as the baby grows and you become more adventurous with going out etc. Steer clear of believing buggy manufacturers who say that this is the one buggy that will suit you from birth until 3. It won't be. Over 2 children, I owned 3 buggies, 4 if you include the one I bought to replace one that broke. If I had my time again, I would still want the luxury-bed-on-wheels-lie-flat-pram option from birth but would buy it second hand so that I could concentrate on spending cash on a new buggy for when they are 6/9 months plus and at that stage buy a great buggy which will see me through until walking and beyond.
I live in the city, we don't use the car very often. So I think it'll mostly be public transport and walks in the parks etc - not on a rugged terrain. And yes I do intent to use it since birth - with the carrycot for the first 6 months and then as a buggy when the baby can sit up. I was hoping to use it till the baby is 3 years - at least that is what every website seems to suggest - but your comment is a surprise. This will be my first baby so I am in the market for buggies the first time. I guess I should listen to the more experienced people here. I am not too worried about a child car seat at the moment - we'll buy maybe a second hand Maxi cozi later on, but right now I am not in the mood for a second hand buggy.
Since we live in an apartment that doesn't have a lift, I was initially looking for lighter buggies - but the only ones I found were MacLaren and Peg Perego (I didn't see the Peg Perego personally - only saw it online) - both of which look like they'll last only if used on a red carpet ! So now I was checking out ones that are easily collapsible, so I can leave out the buggy on the front door during the day without blocking the way for others.
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Old 05.04.2011, 17:31
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Re: Which kinderwagen to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

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And yes I do intent to use it since birth - with the carrycot for the first 6 months and then as a buggy when the baby can sit up. I was hoping to use it till the baby is 3 years - at least that is what every website seems to suggest - but your comment is a surprise. This will be my first baby so I am in the market for buggies the first time. I guess I should listen to the more experienced people here.
Well many others may well answer that they managed perfectly alright with the same buggy from birth to 3 but that is not what I found, nor what any of my friends found, who, if anything, have owned more buggies than me!

So perhaps it would help if I explained why I think it is rare that a buggy genuinely lasts from birth to 3. You can consider my opinion then take it on board/discard it as you wish. It is only my opinion. There are as many opinions as there are buggies out there!!

The principle reason is ease of use and being lightweight. The buggies that are designed to have carrycots attached are usually on heavy wheel bases which work absolutely fine while you have a small, light baby but once your baby is over 12 months, become something of a nuisance to handle. Buggies that had swivel wheels that, when baby was small, could turn on a sixpence become huge behemoths that need the space of an oil tanker to turn in when you have a 15kg + child in it. I think this is why buggies like the Bugaboo have become so popular because they do manage to stay (relatively) lightweight even with a 2 year old in it. Plus, as your child walks more and more, it will want to be hopping in and out of the buggy, and often walking for long periods of time. This is when strollers such as Maclaren and even more compact ones like Quinny Zapp become wonderful because they hardly hamper you at all. Also buggies from birth often tend to be bigger and more bulky than strollers designed to be used from say, 6 months. The size of your buggy really does become a nuisance as the toddler spends less and less time in it, and you spend more and more time cursing the enormous length of your wheel base meaning you cannot easily squeeze it onto a commuter tram at hometime. Again, bugaboo wins here because it is relatively compact.

As my buggy needs are the complete opposite of yours (countryside, need to walk over a field just to get to the bus stop, in summer spend 2 months in carfree resort at 1600m where there are no made up roads, only rough paths ) I do not feel super qualified to advise you as to a particular type that is suited to urban use. All I will say is I have a mountain buggy with fixed front wheel designed for rugged all terrain use. I simply love mountain buggy and I believe you can attach a carry cot to them and I know that they offer an "urban jungle" version with a shortened chassis and a swivel front wheel for use in the urban jungle that is Zurich. But do look how compactly it folds .. my fixed wheel hardly folds at all and is about 4ft long when collapsed so you need a big car to fit it in.

Hopefully other urban jungle dwellers can take over and assist you as to makes and models they have found good. All the best.

PS. In the tram, try spotting how many of these "birth to 3" style buggies actually have children in them that are anywhere near approaching 3, or even approaching 2. My experience in Basel is that these children either have no buggy or are riding in Macclarens, Quinny zapps, chiccos etc. For my trips into the big smoke I have a Zapp but this is useless from birth as there is no lie flat - or at least there wasn't when I bought mine.

Last edited by ecb; 05.04.2011 at 17:35. Reason: addition
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Old 05.04.2011, 17:51
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Re: Which kinderwagen to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

Baby Jogger buggies are good at folding up in half to leave downstairs - but no buggy with a bassinet on will fold up, the bassinet will need to be removed of course. We have a Baby Jogger City Select but this will unlikely meet your needs as it's a big big and cumbersome but the other 3 wheel model babyjoggers I would recommend purely for how they fold flat. Bugaboos are very common here but I don't rate the wheels on anything other than on flat tarmac
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Old 05.04.2011, 17:59
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Re: Which kinderwagen to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

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So could anyone give some advice or share their experience on which one of the affordable ones they'd recommend?
We've got a Chicco Trio Tour 4 and are quite happy with it. Bought in Germany at half of the Swiss price.
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Old 05.04.2011, 18:15
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Re: Which kinderwagen to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

I have got the Baby Jogger Summit 360 to use it also for running later. I like the way to fold it together (so easy) and the suspension. You could also order it from the UK.
In Germany most parents like the TFK www.buggy.de/en.html or the Teutonia www.teutonia.com/uk/products.html.
I prefer not to use an inexpensive buggy because the suspension of a buggy/pram is so important. With a good suspension the babys like to sleep and settle well in a buggy/pram.
You should try different brands.
In my opinion it is better to spend a little bit more because you will use it daily.
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Old 05.04.2011, 18:51
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Re: Which kinderwagen to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

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We've got a Chicco Trio Tour 4 and are quite happy with it. Bought in Germany at half of the Swiss price.
I second Chicco for the city and a three wheeler for forest or mountain paths.
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Old 05.04.2011, 19:14
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Re: Which kinderwagen to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

you can take a look at the baby outlet just in front of the big coop of silbern,dietikon,you can find several models for almost half price
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Old 05.04.2011, 22:25
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Re: Which kinderwagen to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

We have a Teutonia Cosmo, not the one I initially wanted, but it suits us very well at the moment. It's best feature I think is it's excellent steering - easy to use 1 handed, v. easy to manoeuvre in the shops and narrow enough that you're not forever crashing into the sides in the supermarket (fits through the normal Migros check-out). It can take a carry cot, although this is quite narrow, but having said that I had a large (I'm being polite!) baby and he nearly lasted 6 months in it.

He's now 16 months...and 14kg so it does make lifting the whole thing quite a task, but I can count the number of times I've had to do that on one hand. People always offer to help. I'm not sure it'll last another year as he looks quite squashed already, but he is the size of most 2 yr olds I know and anyway he's starting to want to walk everywhere now.

It's not a cross country type and he did suffer when I took him through the forest in it, now we just take the carrier. But for the city it's perfect and you can lock the wheels so it's easier to push in the snow/on uneven paths.

On the bad side, it does take up most of our boot, so we have a 2nd hand maclaren that we take away with us + carrier. But as I use it every day in the city and husband takes the car to work, this is not really an issue for us.

We were given some very good advice - if you want mainly a city pram then make sure you take a 4 wheel one. 3-wheelers are unstable and impractical when you're trying to get a fully laden pram on and off buses/pavements all the time.

And you can turn the seat round easily so baby is facing you/ facing out (v.v.v. useful when you have a lo who is ill and wants to see mummy when you have to go out to get some shopping)

Last edited by Kalli; 05.04.2011 at 22:30. Reason: I forgot to say something
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Old 05.04.2011, 22:49
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Re: Which kinderwagen to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

I second what ecb says- and you can even read through some of the threads on here, of people wanting to sell their current pram to upgrade/transfer to a different one for the next kid.

I have also had a different pushchair/pram for each kid - the only thing that has lasted throughout is the bike trailer.

Watch other people walking with their prams.
Watch them getting into and out of trams, up stairs, find the lifts in each store, and check the label on the pram.

What i liked about the Bugaboo (which I didnt have) was that you can very quicky change the seat from front to rear facing



My personal favourite though, is the Mountain Buggy:
(filmed in Wellington, New Zealand, as it was designed there )

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Old 05.04.2011, 23:16
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Re: Which kinderwagen to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

I have a bad back (weak lower back from a hereditary spinal problem) and so weight was a big factor. My pram was around the 7kg total weight. Add a 20kg toddler/preschooler and pretty much that's the maximum that I can carry up/down the stairs on the train/tram/bus.

Also, with our first two children I didn't drive for 3 years, and again when we moved to Switzerland with the third - he was 8 months when we arrived, and is 3.5 years now. So most of my pram use is with walking and public transport.

A big sun/rain shade is a factor for me too...little babies hate having the sun/wind/rain in their face...

So, as a third-time mum, my pram is very light weight, umbrella style, and I managed to find one that almost goes flat, and I actually hand-made a padded mattress to go in the pram. When we arrived in Switzerland, for that first winter, I bought a second-hand baby sack for 9chf. Worth about 90chf, and it did us just fine, but if I was going to have a winter baby, then probably I'd end up carrying the baby in a pouch on my body, because I'd be too bothered by overheating/cooling all day...

Actually, our third child barely went out in the cold because if he was too warm he'd cry, and if his hands got cold, he'd cry!

My other advice is to get a pram that actually fits down the aisle of the bus/tram/train, if you are a regular public transport user - ours does and it certainly has solved lots of problems when people are in the way, or there are too many prams in the pram area, or the door isn't working properly!

About 50% of the time in Zurich my tram would not have level access, and I'd be pulling the pram up/down the stairs... having a narrow/light pram makes a big difference!

At work we have a super chunky pram which is perfect for hauling through the snow. It's actually really hard work pushing a pram in the snow, but our light-weight one has done all conditions, and the advantage is that it's easy to pull back out and over the embankments, rather than getting bogged
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Old 06.04.2011, 10:57
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Re: Which kinderwagen to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

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you can take a look at the baby outlet just in front of the big coop of silbern,dietikon,you can find several models for almost half price
Really? A friend did recommend going there this past weekend- but didnt mention anything on the price difference. It being a rare sunny weekend, and a good 45 minutes journey to the store by public transport, we decided to skip the pram hunt and went to the lakeside instead
Why cant they just have an online store - so much easier to compare prices.
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Old 06.04.2011, 11:22
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Re: Which kinderwagen to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

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Why cant they just have an online store - so much easier to compare prices.
I just ordered our kinderwagen from samueljohnston.com in the UK. I couldn't get the one I wanted in CH and they delivered it for just £80 and it arrived in 10 days. Also, a lot cheaper than the average price here. Customer service was excellent too.

Can't comment on how good the buggy is yet though- need to wait a few more months for that!
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Old 06.04.2011, 11:31
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Re: Which kinderwagen [pram/stroller] to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

Expensive, but fantastic: the Stokke Xplory.

Brilliant for, well, everything really, except going off road (forest trails, for example). This was the only stroller we bought for our son, from birth to whenever it was that he decided to start running everywhere (approx. 2 years).

Maybe you can get one second hand?
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Old 06.04.2011, 11:54
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Re: Which kinderwagen [pram/stroller] to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

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Expensive, but fantastic: the Stokke Xplory.

Brilliant for, well, everything really, except going off road (forest trails, for example). This was the only stroller we bought for our son, from birth to whenever it was that he decided to start running everywhere (approx. 2 years).

Maybe you can get one second hand?
These look cool but poxy storage space underneath. That was a main criteria for us when choosing along with 4 wheels and parent facing
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Old 06.04.2011, 12:03
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Re: Which kinderwagen [pram/stroller] to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

Each to his/her own, as always ... we never had any problems storing bottles, nappies, wipes, bibs, food, etc in the bag that came with the pram.

There isn't room to carry all your weekly grocery shopping, but that's not what we expected.

In bassinet mode, the bag is plenty big enough for baby's needs. In stroller mode, you can have two bags, if you wish.

Oh, and 4 wheels: check; parent-facing: check (or forward facing, up to you (in stroller mode)).

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Old 06.04.2011, 12:25
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Re: Which kinderwagen [pram/stroller] to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

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Oh, and 4 wheels: check; parent-facing: check (or forward facing, up to you (in stroller mode)).
Yes I know this is 4 wheels and parent facing I was just stating those were the 3 criteria we had - this model failed on storage - otherwise i liked it
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Old 06.04.2011, 12:35
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Re: Which kinderwagen [pram/stroller] to buy? ABC Design/Hauck etc

I never thought I'd get into a robust defence of prams ...

Anyway, maybe it's some inbuilt problem I have ... I also think this is a practical, sensible transport solution, and I find the storage perfectly sufficient.* Although I concede the kids wouldn't be parent-facing. Or even there, at all.



*Not that I actually own one. But I'm sure I would find the storage space sufficient, if I did.
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