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  #181  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:25
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

I'm not a pharmacologist but I'm sure that the mechanism by which all drugs can be explained in quite some details.

Example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracet...nism_of_action
  #182  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:28
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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I'm not a pharmacologist but I'm sure that the mechanism by which all drugs can be explained in quite some details.

Example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracet...nism_of_action
Explained at what level though...

How would a Buddhist / Quantum Theorist view action/cause/causality/cure.

I am not too sure how using the system itself, can prove the system.
  #183  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:28
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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I never said that. I spoke about substances being diluted at 30c having different effects to the same substance being diluted at say 200c or 1M.

We can have a debate, but you really have to give proper time to my answer and avoid misquoting me.
Honestly, I'm not really trying to misquote, it just sounds nonsensical the way you put it.

Is the effect more or less potent when dilluted, or does it have an entirely different effect?

If you have the common cold, but it's quite bad, do you use the same "remedy" for the cold but diluted more. Or do you use an entirely different "remedy" diluted to a different measure?

Although, I suspect, the practionier just makes a mix of ineffectual water "tailored to you" to make one feel that's one's common cold is unique and special. Different "concentrations" just add to the number of make believe water remedies one can have.
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Old 11.04.2011, 14:32
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Should you however choose to look further, you will find that Homeopathy is scientifically proven to work beyond the placebo effect.
If you really mean scientifically proven, Double-blind peer reviewed scientifically proven, you won't. Not in any reputable source.

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You will also find Scientific proof that it doesn't.
On the same definition, yes.

This was debated to death on here some time ago.
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Old 11.04.2011, 14:32
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Honestly, I'm not really trying to misquote, it just sounds nonsensical the way you put it.

Is the effect more or less potent when dilluted, or does it have an entirely different effect?

If you have the common cold, but it's quite bad, do you use the same "remedy" for the cold but diluted more. Or do you use an entirely different "remedy" diluted to a different measure?

Although, I suspect, the practionier just makes a mix of ineffectual water "tailored to you" to make one feel that's one's common cold is unique and special. Different "concentrations" just add to the number of make believe water remedies one can have.

Remedies are prescribed holistically, according to the symptoms and the picture of the patient. Two completely different remedies may be used to treat the same symptom in two different people. A slight change or severity in symptom may well call for an alternative remedy. It is rare for the potency of a remedy to be increased for symptoms that are more severe or if the symptoms worsen.

I fully understand why it all sounds nonsensical. So did flying, going to the moon, travelling at over 10mph and Weejeem buying a round.
  #186  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:33
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

I'm a great fan of paper remedies - I write the substance and dilution on a piece of paper and stuff it in the patients pocket. It saves all that dicking around with water and shaking n stuff.

Of course, some sceptical closed-minded homeopaths have been unable to move with the times, and regard such an exciting new developments as having no real basis. Some homeopaths have ever referred to it as "verging upon magic and superstition".

Luddites! What would they know?!?!?
  #187  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:35
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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If you really mean scientifically proven, Double-blind peer reviewed scientifically proven, you won't. Not in any reputable source.


On the same definition, yes.

This was debated to death on here some time ago.
You mean reputable being the one you choose to believe ??
Or maybe not, please tell us which study you thought was reputable and why, and the same for not reputable ?
  #188  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:40
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Remedies are prescribed holistically, according to the symptoms and the picture of the patient. Two completely different remedies may be used to treat the same symptom in two different people. A slight change or severity in symptom may well call for an alternative remedy. It is rare for the potency of a remedy to be increased for symptoms that are more severe or if the symptoms worsen.
What I suspected then. It's utter BS, remedies are interchangeable because they do absolutely nothing. Treatment that seems to be ineffective is changed until the patient gets better on their own, but allows the practioner to claim credit.
  #189  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:40
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Homeopathists cannot explain how their stuff works. No more than a Dr. can explain how a medicine works. They have a rough idea at best.

Or the 99.99% of people who haven't a clue how a computer works but will still unquestioningly believe something in a PowerPoint presentation
  #190  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:46
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You mean reputable being the one you choose to believe ??
Or maybe not, please tell us which study you thought was reputable and why, and the same for not reputable ?
As I said, argued to death before. Take a look in this thread because I really can't be bothered to seek it all out again.
  #191  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:47
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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...Should you however choose to look further, you will find that Homeopathy is scientifically proven to work beyond the placebo effect. You will also find Scientific proof that it doesn't. It's up to you what you choose to believe with an open mind rather than trying to win this argument in this forum.
There is no such thing as "X is scientifically proven". Theories, anomalous effects, etc. are studied, results are published, and a consensus is either reached or not reached. A lot of papers have been published, but consensus has not been reached that homeopathy has any benefit beyond a placebo effect. You can't say that since there are papers on both sides, one can just "choose" which side to take. That isn't how science works.
  #192  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:49
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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As I said, argued to death before. Take a look in this thread because I really can't be bothered to seek it all out again.
Cut and paste job. You fail to explain why you choose to believe some studies and not others, you fail to say why some scientists should be believed and other not.

Belief, some would say, is the death of intelligence.
  #193  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:52
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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There is no such thing as "X is scientifically proven". Theories, anomalous effects, etc. are studied, results are published, and a consensus is either reached or not reached. A lot of papers have been published, but consensus has not been reached that homeopathy has any benefit beyond a placebo effect. You can't say that since there are papers on both sides, one can just "choose" which side to take. That isn't how science works.
Consensus amongst who ? You mean a majority ? What is the consensus amongst scientists concerning string theory and quantum entanglement... When does acceptance begin... Sorry, your argument is quite rhetoric.
  #194  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:54
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Cut and paste job. You fail to explain why you choose to believe some studies and not others, you fail to say why some scientists should be believed and other not.

Belief, some would say, is the death of intelligence.
So, will you tell us why don't you believe the studies that show homeopathy has no effect beyond the placebo?

All you've really shown us in terms of science is that maybe, in one paper, dilution has some effect (although I wasn't clear if they actually went up to the dilutions used in homeopathy).
  #195  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:55
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Cut and paste job. You fail to explain why you choose to believe some studies and not others, you fail to say why some scientists should be believed and other not.

Belief, some would say, is the death of intelligence.
As I said before, "Double-blind peer reviewed" is the key phrase. I haven't see a single pro-homeopathy study that comes remotely close to that. I have seen several that conclude it's all bs, however.
  #196  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:55
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Belief, some would say, is the death of intelligence.
Lucky I changes sides earlier, innit?
  #197  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:57
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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So, will you tell us why don't you believe the studies that show homeopathy has no effect beyond the placebo?

All you've really shown us in terms of science is that maybe, in one paper, dilution has some effect (although I wasn't clear if they actually went up to the dilutions used in homeopathy).
No he hasn't. Because...

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...I , for the record, did not post that link to support Homeopathy. I posted that link to detract from the ridicule being thrown at dilution. For the sake of this argument, I do not consider that article as part of the debate for Homeopathy.
  #198  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:57
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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So, will you tell us why don't you believe the studies that show homeopathy has no effect beyond the placebo?

All you've really shown us in terms of science is that maybe, in one paper, dilution has some effect (although I wasn't clear if they actually went up to the dilutions used in homeopathy).
Fr the sake of this thread, I have put my beliefs aside and have never argued for them. I merely wish to relate the facts behind the science in terms of usage, terminology and at times correcting the myths behind how, what, when and why it is used.

I may not believe in the Christian God, as Christians do, but can certainly debate their purpose, message and refute the incorrect antagonisms being bandied about.
  #199  
Old 11.04.2011, 15:10
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Fr the sake of this thread, I have put my beliefs aside and have never argued for them. I merely wish to relate the facts behind the science in terms of usage, terminology and at times correcting the myths behind how, what, when and why it is used.

Well, I'm still utterly mystified.

How does one obtain pure water from which to begin? Water that somehow retains the memory of a substance when struck in a particular fashion, but that somehow never happens to the water in nature. Can the process be undone? Does it have an expiry date. What happens if one strikes the water too many times, how does anyone know if it has been correctly struck?

For the automated plants, how does quality control work? How does one test the potency of a remedy, what if there was a malfunction, who would tell, is the manufacturer responsible for selling incorrectly diluted or struck remedies?

Where are the clear guidelines for prescription? Does a homeopath do blood work, temperature, check for swellings, or do they just take the patients word that they give a complete description of their symptoms?
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Old 11.04.2011, 15:11
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A new medical disipline is born

In a past life, I noticed that systems that received large and regular patches tended to be in poor health and that, despite said treatment, inevitably they got worse rather than better.

Conversely, systems that received few and small patches were in good health were usually healthy, and often improved in condition.



I have therefore founded a new discipline - HomeopathIT™.



In a few short years, I expect it to displace most IT staff and all their associated quackery.
.
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