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Old 11.04.2011, 14:18
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Consensus amongst who ? You mean a majority ? What is the consensus amongst scientists concerning string theory and quantum entanglement... When does acceptance begin... Sorry, your argument is quite rhetoric.
You stated, "Homeopathy is scientifically proven to work beyond the placebo effect...". You cannot pick-and-choose which papers you like and say "it has been proven". I am pointing out this out because you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how science works.
  #202  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:19
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Well, I'm still utterly mystified.

How does one obtain pure water from which to begin?
Who said water has to be pure ? Most H'paths I know use alchohol based remedies.



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Water that somehow retains the memory of a substance when struck in a particular fashion, but that somehow never happens to the water in nature.
Where is succussion repeated in nature to reproduce this affect ?

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Can the process be undone?
How do you undo succussion, and why would you ? Can a word said be undone ??

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Does it have an expiry date.
Yes, unless stored correctly away from influence, the effects are said to diminish.


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What happens if one strikes the water too many times, how does anyone know if it has been correctly struck?
Visit the Helios factory. Seeing the manufacturing process will answer your questions.

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For the automated plants, how does quality control work?

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How does one test the potency of a remedy,
Same question applies to any batch of medicine.

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what if there was a malfunction, who would tell, is the manufacturer responsible for selling incorrectly diluted or struck remedies?
The remedies are safe. These fears are based around other medicines.

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Where are the clear guidelines for prescription? Does a homeopath do blood work, temperature, check for swellings, or do they just take the patients word that they give a complete description of their symptoms?
What does your Doctor do ? Why is a Trained/regulated professional Homeopath any different at diagnosing ?
  #203  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:22
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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You stated, "Homeopathy is scientifically proven to work beyond the placebo effect...". You cannot pick-and-choose which papers you like and say "it has been proven". I am pointing out this out because you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how science works.
On the contrary, those words apply to your argument. Weak projection at best. Science is pure contradiction and argument. At the end of the day, people choose what they want to believe, despite the for and against. You choose what you want.

Now, what have you chosen to believe ?
  #204  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:28
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Who said water has to be pure ? Most H'paths I know use alchohol based remedies.
One would presume that one wished to know the effect. If one starts with a tainted base, one has no idea what's causing the effect.

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Where is succussion repeated in nature to reproduce this affect ?
Water generally babbles and gurgles through life, just because you've called it succession doesn't make it any different from shaking it a bit. Given water successed and tap water, you have no way of telling the difference.

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How do you undo succussion, and why would you ? Can a word said be undone ??
So, homepathic water is already in the water system then, if it can't be undone.

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Yes, unless stored correctly away from influence, the effects are said to diminish.
How did anyone tell?

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Visit the Helios factory. Seeing the manufacturing process will answer your questions.
I doubt it.


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Same question applies to any batch of medicine.
You think they don't check for real medicine? That's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Not a problem for homeopathic remdies, as they do nothing.

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The remedies are safe. These fears are based around other medicines.
The remdies are water and do nothing, that is why they are safe.


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What does your Doctor do ? Why is a Trained/regulated professional Homeopath any different at diagnosing ?
So homepaths will double check the symptoms, and will make sure that you don't die of TB because you have a bit of a cough.
  #205  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:30
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Where is succussion repeated in nature to reproduce this affect ?
You take a dump. Flush it down and it travels to the local ARA along with a load of other dumps, washing up water, rainwater. Dilution 1. There it gets filtered and generally cleaned and flushed out into a local stream. Dilution 2. The stream joins a river. Dilution2. The river flows into Zürichsee. Dilution 3. Zürichsee water is again filtered and pumped to your tap. A nice natural succession of dilutions. According to homeopathic theory every but of that water carries a memory of your dump. Not sure what disease that one will treat, though.
  #206  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:33
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Why is a Trained/regulated professional Homeopath any different at diagnosing ?
I'd be curious to know who regulates a homeopath. Could you give us a link to the official register of regulated homeopaths for any such regulated jurisdictions?

Also could you give us a breakdown of the study and training required to become a homeopath?

The answers to these questions are, by sheer coincidence, the answers to your question concerning the difference between a qualified, licensed doctor and a trained, regulated homeopath.
  #207  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:34
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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You take a dump. Flush it down and it travels to the local ARA along with a load of other dumps, washing up water, rainwater. Dilution 1. There it gets filtered and generally cleaned and flushed out into a local stream. Dilution 2. The stream joins a river. Dilution2. The river flows into Zürichsee. Dilution 3. Zürichsee water is again filtered and pumped to your tap. A nice natural succession of dilutions. According to homeopathic theory every but of that water carries a memory of your dump. Not sure what disease that one will treat, though.
Maybe hehe, quite artistic there.

So what are the final dilutions ? Nothing like the fixed dilutions that Homeopaths quote as being a remedy. ....
  #208  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:35
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Maybe hehe, quite artistic there.

So what are the final dilutions ? Nothing like the fixed dilutions that Homeopaths quote as being a remedy. ....
You mean, the impossible dilutions? Are you actually admitting there isn't enough water in the world to make the dilutions Homeopaths claim?
  #209  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:37
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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On the contrary, those words apply to your argument. Weak projection at best. Science is pure contradiction and argument. At the end of the day, people choose what they want to believe, despite the for and against. You choose what you want.

Now, what have you chosen to believe ?
You can choose to believe what you want. In that regard, it is your own "religion". But the homeopathy is not "scientifically proven" as you claimed.
  #210  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:39
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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I'd be curious to know who regulates a homeopath. Could you give us a link to the official register of regulated homeopaths for any such regulated jurisdictions?

Also could you give us a breakdown of the study and training required to become a homeopath?

The answers to these questions are, by sheer coincidence, the answers to your question concerning the difference between a qualified, licensed doctor and a trained, regulated homeopath.
I am sure you can Google that for yourself. You don't expect me to know that do you ?

You could phone the NHS Homeopathic hospitals in the UK, or speak to one of the 700 NHS registered Doctors prescribing Homeopathic remedies. Failing that, you could speak to the Queen's physician.
  #211  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:40
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

This thread is silly. It's like arguing with someone who believes the moon is made of cheese. Pointless really.
  #212  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:42
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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You mean, the impossible dilutions? Are you actually admitting there isn't enough water in the world to make the dilutions Homeopaths claim?
Can you rephrase that ? Can't make sense of it.

The dilutions are easy to make. It is the scientists that argue the remedies will have no trace of the substance in most (some most have) of them. Once these remedies enter the public water systems , they are in effect not remedies as they do not exist at the same potency/dilution in which they were prescribed or given.
  #213  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:43
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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This thread is silly. It's like arguing with someone who believes the moon is made of cheese. Pointless really.
This has never been an argument pro-homeopathy , merely to educate the readers in what it considers itself to be about.
That's where I have been coming from. Please check my posts.
  #214  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:45
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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I am sure you can Google that for yourself. You don't expect me to know that do you ?

You could phone the NHS Homeopathic hospitals in the UK, or speak to one of the 700 NHS registered Doctors prescribing Homeopathic remedies. Failing that, you could speak to the Queen's physician.
Shhhh, don't say that

They might read this
"Content on homeopathy has been removed from the website pending a review by the Department of Health policy team responsible for complementary and alternative medicines"

here on the NHS Choices website page on homeopathy

Or read this

Or this

Whose side are you on, fer goodness sake?
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #215  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:46
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

There are pages and pages of defensive postings with all sorts of mad links to back it up but can anyone say (giving examples) that the diluted stuff has actually cured them of a bona fide complaint?

"I took [eye of bat / tooth of tiger] from [Henry's Homeopathy Emporium / U-dilute.com] for [cystitis / hemorrhoids / ear infection] and I was completely better within x time."

No anecdotal stuff about your great Auntie, either. Have you, yourself been cured.
  #216  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:47
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Can you rephrase that ? Can't make sense of it.

The dilutions are easy to make. It is the scientists that argue the remedies will have no trace of the substance in most (some most have) of them. Once these remedies enter the public water systems , they are in effect not remedies as they do not exist at the same potency/dilution in which they were prescribed or given.
But homepathy isn't about dilution, is it, as we both keep trying to say.

Blimey!
  #217  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:48
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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But homepathy isn't about dilution, is it, as we both keep trying to say.

Blimey!
No, but it has been impossible getting everybody to understand that, So I just go along within their frame of concept.
  #218  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:50
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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There are pages and pages of defensive postings with all sorts of mad links to back it up but can anyone say (giving examples) that the diluted stuff has actually cured them of a bona fide complaint?

"I took [eye of bat / tooth of tiger] from [Henry's Homeopathy Emporium / U-dilute.com] for [cystitis / hemorrhoids / ear infection] and I was completely better within x time."
Yes. But who will believe them. The same old retort comes back - "You would have got better anyway." It will just open up that person to even more ridicule.
  #219  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:50
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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This thread is silly. It's like arguing with someone who believes the moon is made of cheese. Pointless really.
But the moon is made of cheese. There has not been one double blind study to prove otherwise.
  #220  
Old 11.04.2011, 14:52
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Can you rephrase that ? Can't make sense of it.

The dilutions are easy to make. It is the scientists that argue the remedies will have no trace of the substance in most (some most have) of them. Once these remedies enter the public water systems , they are in effect not remedies as they do not exist at the same potency/dilution in which they were prescribed or given.

Well, they're very good arguments, based on the number of molecules and the room they take up, thoroughly tested. Although probably you know better.

If the remedies have traces of the substance, then the homepaths have lied about how many times they diluted it. Simple.
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