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Old 11.04.2011, 16:21
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Oh no it wasn't....We are probably confusing each other here.
You left off the part of my quote where I pointed out that the answers to my (later) questions were also the answers to your (earlier) questions.

You then inferred that I asked the question. But, as proven above, you asked first.

In conclusion, google away dear sir, google away.

We only have to debate this point 27 more times to reach a 30x dilution of the original question, and then we'll have the answer.
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Old 11.04.2011, 16:21
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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...which, according to a 2005 paper, last all of 50 millionths of a nanosecond (50 fs) for water molecules.
Heck, how was that measured ? Do we have such a stopwatch ?? Genuine awe !!

But some other papers suggest otherwise don't they ?
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Old 11.04.2011, 16:22
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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I quite like upthehatters posts but I just don't understand if his defense homeopathetic remedies is trolling or he truly believes it.
I can't speak for UtH, but I'm a believer. Have been ever since Post#144, and nothing will ever make me change my mind
  #244  
Old 11.04.2011, 16:23
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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I can't speak for UtH, but I'm a believer. Have been ever since Post#144, and nothing will ever make me change my mind
Yes, but how are we to believe that you believe?
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Old 11.04.2011, 16:25
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Yes, but how are we to believe that you believe?
Use the force Carlos, use the force.
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Old 11.04.2011, 16:26
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Now progress to the Molecular memory theory.
By then, much of the water used hasn't even come into contact with the original molecules, or even the molecules mixed with the molecules mixed with the molecules mixed with the original. So even if water memory wasn't BS, it's still BS.
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Old 11.04.2011, 16:27
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Yes, but how are we to believe that you believe?
Because I've told you once... strike-1-anti-homeopathicists-40-1.jpg
  #248  
Old 11.04.2011, 16:29
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Heck, how was that measured ? Do we have such a stopwatch ?? Genuine awe !!

But some other papers suggest otherwise don't they ?
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture03383.html


(Not sure if others will be able to see this link)
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Old 11.04.2011, 16:30
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Because I've told you once... Attachment 25733

no you......


Oh, never mind.
  #250  
Old 11.04.2011, 16:31
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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By then, much of the water used hasn't even come into contact with the original molecules, or even the molecules mixed with the molecules mixed with the molecules mixed with the original. So even if water memory wasn't BS, it's still BS.


All depends on what you mean by contact. The QM's would have a field day with Quantum Entanglement, the physicists with inverse laws etc... Everything is in (this) reality , connected and affecting everything else.
  #251  
Old 11.04.2011, 16:31
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

I think the most ludicrous thing about "water memory" (not that the concept isn't ludicrous enough itsefl) is that it can be transmitted electronically
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Old 11.04.2011, 16:34
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

Folks, am off to try diluted Rum.
Something about a Sexy Loitering in town too. must go and watch.

Been a pleasure.
  #253  
Old 11.04.2011, 16:35
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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All depends on what you mean by contact. The QM's would have a field day with Quantum Entanglement, the physicists with inverse laws etc... Everything is in (this) reality , connected and affecting everything else.

Which brings us back to the problem of why water doesn't retain the memory of everything it comes into contact with. I suppose the homeopath has a magik quantum wand that carefully picks which elements in the water it will activate. Because remember, no one has checked to see what's in the water first.

Honestly the mental hoops you must have to go through
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Old 11.04.2011, 16:47
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Been a pleasure.
Never a chore.

The böögg is pretty close to the Limmat, though, so when the head explodes some particle of ash lands in the river, and then that flows into the Zürisee, and then some kid jumps in the lake in Horgen, and accidentally swallows some water and as it runs out of his nose, his cold is somehow alleviated...

...you heard it here first, folks. "Homeopathic Exploding Snowman cures the common cold."
  #255  
Old 11.04.2011, 16:53
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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No. You absolutely do not dilute the virus.

In simple terms:

You expose the immune system to the antigens that make your body recognise something as alien. Antigens are the bits that are specific to a virus or other alien particle in your body (whether a bacterial, viral or chemical entity).

The body then attacks cells which have these antigens (expressed on their surface). Autoimmune diseases are examples where the body's immune system incorrectly attacks antigens from its own cells.

Immune reactions are always stronger the second time, due to immune memory. So vaccines tap into this by preparing your body with a mix of antigens from a particular viral strain. You give a vaccine in an inactive form so that you don't, in principle, have to suffer from the disease (although a lot of the symptoms are a natural reaction to infection, so when you take a vaccine you will sometimes have a fever, soreness etc. etc.).




Very simple terms, but it shows that it is not a dilution effect.
But still we have a situation where

a) substances are used to cure alikes
b) the stuff in the vaccine may not be diluted in molecular terms, but it is reduced in its potency (as obviously you don't catch the disease), but you are still using a weaker form to protect against a stronger form.
  #256  
Old 11.04.2011, 16:56
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Never a chore.

The böögg is pretty close to the Limmat, though, so when the head explodes some particle of ash lands in the river, and then that flows into the Zürisee, and then some kid jumps in the lake in Horgen, and accidentally swallows some water and as it runs out of his nose, his cold is somehow alleviated...

...you heard it here first, folks. "Homeopathic Exploding Snowman cures the common cold."
How about I take a remedy for bullshit, you all take the piss out of me , and hey presto no more bullshit ?

Seriously folks.

EDIT
We could sell the piss !!

Heineken do.
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  #257  
Old 11.04.2011, 17:01
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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a) substances are used to cure alikes
1) it is not "alike", which to me implies similar, it is the same, i.e. the antigens in vaccines are the same ones you get on a real virus

2) you have to accept that there's "something" in the homeopathic blend, even though it has been diluted to the nth degree...

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b) the stuff in the vaccine may not be diluted in molecular terms, but it is reduced in its potency (as obviously you don't catch the disease), but you are still using a weaker form to protect against a stronger form.
3) as PaddyG mentioned, the concentrations are increased

4) in homeopathy you are not using a "weaker" form. In theory, you are using the same molecule but diluted massively

5) the weaker vs. stronger form is a bit of a red hearing in vaccines, as, as mentioned in point (1) you are presenting the real antigens - the bits that your immune system uses - to your immune system. Sure, they are not attached to a virus, but there's nothing "weak" about the antigens themselves
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  #258  
Old 11.04.2011, 17:14
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Homeopathy also proves the existence of multiple universes...

See, we don't just heal people, we're cosmologists too.
"A popular homeopathic treatment for flu is a 200C (10^-400) dilution of duck liver (Oscillococcinum). As there are only about 10^80 atoms in the entire observable universe, a mere 40C dilution of this would be approximately one molecule in this observable universe. Oscillococcinum thus requires 10^320 more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."
So there's a lot more out there than people think
  #259  
Old 11.04.2011, 17:19
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Re: Homeopathy also proves the existence of multiple universes...

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See, we don't just heal people, we're cosmologists too.
"A popular homeopathic treatment for flu is a 200C (10^-400) dilution of duck liver (Oscillococcinum). As there are only about 10^80 atoms in the entire observable universe, a mere 40C dilution of this would be approximately one molecule in this observable universe. Oscillococcinum thus requires 10^320 more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."
So there's a lot more out there than people think
But sadly, none of it has any duck liver in.
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Old 11.04.2011, 17:24
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Re: Homeopathy also proves the existence of multiple universes...

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But sadly, none of it has any duck liver in.
Does that mean it is OK for vegetarians?
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