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Old 12.04.2011, 11:07
economisto
 
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

An old article, but perchance relevant to the discussion. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...they-work.html

Seems even the purveyors of this tap water don't actually believe it does anything. It's a bit like writing for the Sun or producing Big Brother. "We know it's stupid, but there are a load of stupid people with spare cash and stupid requires stupid and we like money"
  #282  
Old 12.04.2011, 11:11
economisto
 
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Re: Homeopathy also proves the existence of multiple universes...

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Something is going wrong here.

As I only need two hundred liters of water, with the 200th liter containing the remedy, and any one of the 200 liters containing all or some of the original substance, then observably, it is right in front of me. Where do you get those massive figures from WJ ?
Are you trolling UTH or do you really not understand?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

Table about a fifth of the way down.
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  #283  
Old 12.04.2011, 11:38
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Re: Homeopathy also proves the existence of multiple universes...

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Are you trolling UTH or do you really not understand?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

Table about a fifth of the way down.
As I said, you do not need *any* of the substance. Arguing about how diluted the original substance is, is pointless. It's the solution at the end of the dilution that is important. Not how many molecules of a substance it contains.

  #284  
Old 12.04.2011, 11:45
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Re: Homeopathy also proves the existence of multiple universes...

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As I said, you do not need *any* of the substance. Arguing about how diluted the original substance is, is pointless. It's the solution at the end of the dilution that is important. Not how many molecules of a substance it contains.
But surely then, all water is a dilution of all things? Put another way, what is the difference between a 200c dilution of duck liver parfait and the water that comes out of my tap? They've both almost certainly been in contact with the duck liver parfait, but with certainty also contain no molecules of that substance, delicious as it might be on toasted brioche.
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Old 12.04.2011, 11:46
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Re: Homeopathy also proves the existence of multiple universes...

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But surely then, all water is a dilution of all things? Put another way, what is the difference between a 200c dilution of duck liver parfait and the water that comes out of my tap? They've both almost certainly been in contact with the duck liver parfait, but with certainty also contain no molecules of that substance, delicious as it might be on toasted brioche.
This has already been discussed.

EDIT: Alt text: Sir, I am going to have to ban you from the internet. You are just too stupid. IMG: Man with police uniform, hat and glasses

Last edited by economisto; 12.04.2011 at 11:50. Reason: no swearing
  #286  
Old 12.04.2011, 11:47
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Re: Homeopathy also proves the existence of multiple universes...

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As I said, you do not need *any* of the substance. Arguing about how diluted the original substance is, is pointless. It's the solution at the end of the dilution that is important. Not how many molecules of a substance it contains.
You mean the water, plain water. Containing nothing.

Basically you believe tapping water in a certain way (Abracadabra) imparts complex substances of many elements and structures that are somehow retained by individual water molecules that in all chances were not even anywhere near the original substance in the first place.

You explain that with "quantum" entanglement. Very clevery this quantum entanglement works only with the limits of the little glass bottle, so say, the water does not entagle with the glass bottle, the air around it, but very specific substance based only within the water.
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  #287  
Old 12.04.2011, 11:55
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Re: Homeopathy also proves the existence of multiple universes...

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You explain that with "quantum" entanglement. Very clevery this quantum entanglement works only with the limits of the little glass bottle, so say, the water does not entagle with the glass bottle, the air around it, but very specific substance based only within the water.
You forgot the lack of interaction of the water in my mouth with my recently gobbled duck liver parfait on warm, toasted brioche with a rich and naughty little Primitivo.
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Old 12.04.2011, 12:29
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

There is the whole BBC TV's Horizon's report on homoeopathic tests on youtube where James Randi offered a $1million homoeopathy it could be proved:

Part 5: final conclusion:

"Homeopathic water has no effect whatsoever"...

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  #289  
Old 12.04.2011, 16:04
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

I left my glass of water in the kitchen overnight, and this morning not only did it not say hello, it didn't even recognise me



Pah! So much for "water memory"...
  #290  
Old 13.04.2011, 08:53
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

You scientist types don't seem to have very enquiring minds if you don't mind me saying! Am sure if I was of scientific orientation, I would at least be waiting for an opportunity to try homeopathy for myself, if only to be able to say "no it doesn't work". The HOW it works is not so important.
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Old 13.04.2011, 08:57
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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You scientist types don't seem to have very enquiring minds if you don't mind me saying! Am sure if I was of scientific orientation, I would at least be waiting for an opportunity to try homeopathy for myself, if only to be able to say "no it doesn't work". The HOW it works is not so important.
Quite insulting! I'm not a scientist myself (not nearly clever enough) but I know lots and they have the emost enquiring minds out of everyone I know. They question absolutely everything and how and why things works.

And, for them, The "How it works" is vitally important.
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  #292  
Old 13.04.2011, 09:21
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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You scientist types don't seem to have very enquiring minds if you don't mind me saying! Am sure if I was of scientific orientation, I would at least be waiting for an opportunity to try homeopathy for myself, if only to be able to say "no it doesn't work". The HOW it works is not so important.
<sigh>

That's just so arse over tit Enaj.

An enquiring mind is one that believes "how it works" is fundamental to why, or indeed whether, it works.

Added to which, N=1 does not mean it works. A scientific mind, as you put it, will look for further proof in a larger population to eradicate the possibility that the result was pure chance.

Homeopathy is in the same category as "the earth is flat", "dinosaurs never existed/creationism" and "the sun rotates around the earth".
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  #293  
Old 13.04.2011, 09:48
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Pah! So much for "water memory"...
You'd think that with all that water memory that goldfish would have a better attention span. Or maybe they download their thoughts to the "memory pool".
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  #294  
Old 13.04.2011, 09:54
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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You scientist types don't seem to have very enquiring minds if you don't mind me saying! Am sure if I was of scientific orientation, I would at least be waiting for an opportunity to try homeopathy for myself, if only to be able to say "no it doesn't work". The HOW it works is not so important.
"It works for me therefore it must be true" is probably the least scientific argument I can think of.

"How?" and "why?" are the most fundamental concepts of science.
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Old 13.04.2011, 09:56
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You magic types don't seem to have very enquiring minds if you don't mind me saying! Am sure if I was of magic orientation, I would at least be waiting for an opportunity to try reality for myself, if only to be able to say "oh it works". The HOW it works is also important.
Fixed that for you
  #296  
Old 13.04.2011, 09:57
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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"It works for me therefore it must be true" is probably the least scientific argument I can think of.

"How?" and "why?" are the most fundamental concepts of science.
But also the fact that it doesn't in fact work for anyone, ever. It just seems like it does.
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Old 13.04.2011, 10:07
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

I love the argument that states: "I've been taking diluted-out-of-existence-duck-heart-and-liver for years and I've never caught influenza. Therefore it works".
Makes me chuckle every time. Bless 'em.
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Old 13.04.2011, 10:15
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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You scientist types don't seem to have very enquiring minds if you don't mind me saying! Am sure if I was of scientific orientation, I would at least be waiting for an opportunity to try homeopathy for myself, if only to be able to say "no it doesn't work". The HOW it works is not so important.
you see:


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  #299  
Old 13.04.2011, 10:16
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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You scientist types don't seem to have very enquiring minds if you don't mind me saying! Am sure if I was of scientific orientation, I would at least be waiting for an opportunity to try homeopathy for myself, if only to be able to say "no it doesn't work". The HOW it works is not so important.
But I already have my comfort medicines, curry and wine work great for me.

I'm not the sort to go running to a doctor every time my nose runs, as I've found it normally sorts itself out after a couple of days, if I get a bad headache, there are products available cheaply that are proven effective, why would I waste money on something I can be damn near certain is just water?
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Old 13.04.2011, 10:17
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Re: Homeopathy also proves the existence of multiple universes...

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You forgot the lack of interaction of the water in my mouth with my recently gobbled duck liver parfait on warm, toasted brioche with a rich and naughty little Primitivo.
Chances are that I've drunk water that's been in contact with water that once touched Eco's duck infected lips.

I've not had flu for years.
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