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Old 13.04.2011, 10:23
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Re: Homeopathy also proves the existence of multiple universes...

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Chances are that I've drunk water that's been in contact with water that once touched Eco's duck infected lips.

I've not had flu for years.
I may have drank water that was once used to clean Henry VIII's arse crack. You know, I've never had syphilis! Amazing stuff this water memory.

Last edited by PaddyG; 13.04.2011 at 10:40.
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  #302  
Old 13.04.2011, 10:39
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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You scientist types don't seem to have very enquiring minds if you don't mind me saying! Am sure if I was of scientific orientation, I would at least be waiting for an opportunity to try homeopathy for myself, if only to be able to say "no it doesn't work". The HOW it works is not so important.
Post of the day.
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Old 13.04.2011, 10:50
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

I wonder what the homeopathic treatment for dehydration is?
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Old 13.04.2011, 10:52
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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I wonder what the homeopathic treatment for dehydration is?
  #305  
Old 13.04.2011, 10:53
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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I wonder what the homeopathic treatment for dehydration is?
According to the "like cures like" principle, you succus 10g of the finest Sahara sand with 1L water, then repeat 200 times.
  #306  
Old 13.04.2011, 10:55
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

About time for this one again.

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  #307  
Old 13.04.2011, 10:55
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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According to the "like cures like" principle, you succus 10g of the finest Sahara sand with 1L water, then repeat 200 times.

What if you are dehydrated in the Mojave desert?
  #308  
Old 13.04.2011, 11:00
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

My apologies, everyone - i just remembered that I'm pro-homeopathy
"It isn't about the dilution - it's about something else, d'you see? "
.
  #309  
Old 13.04.2011, 11:00
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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What if you are dehydrated in the Mojave desert?
Pfft, as if that'll ever happen.
  #310  
Old 13.04.2011, 11:09
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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My apologies, everyone - i just remembered that I'm pro-homeopathy
"It isn't about the dilution - it's about something else, d'you see? "
.
Sheesh. That wate.. homeopathic remedy you're drinking's got better memory than you...
  #311  
Old 13.04.2011, 11:45
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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My apologies, everyone - i just remembered that I'm pro-homeopathy
But as you already left the dark side you may as well stay here with us antis now.
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Old 13.04.2011, 11:47
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

Found a nice little Q and A in the Guardian on a similar subject

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Q-Since glucosamine has proved so beneficial to arthritis sufferers as a dietary supplement, what item of diet is missing that needs to be replaced?

A-It doesn't. As far as I know, there are no trials that show it to be better than a placebo. Of course, placebos help, so it might be that you require more placebos in your diet.
....keep drinking that water!
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Old 13.04.2011, 12:09
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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There is the whole BBC TV's Horizon's report on homoeopathic tests on youtube where James Randi offered a $1million homoeopathy it could be proved:

Part 5: final conclusion:

"Homeopathic water has no effect whatsoever"...
What I find surprising is that Nature recruited a non-scientist like Randi to help in debunking Benveniste and "water memory". You'd think that scientists in the field could monitor themselves. Still, bad science occurs all the time (cold fusion being another example).
  #314  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:15
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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What I find surprising is that Nature recruited a non-scientist like Randi to help in debunking Benveniste and "water memory". You'd think that scientists in the field could monitor themselves. Still, bad science occurs all the time (cold fusion being another example).
Randi wasn't the only assessor of Benveniste's work. I actually thought it was an interesting choice to include him; he would have spotted things that fellow scientists could have regarded as standard practice
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Old 13.04.2011, 22:18
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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<sigh>

That's just so arse over tit Enaj.

An enquiring mind is one that believes "how it works" is fundamental to why, or indeed whether, it works.

Added to which, N=1 does not mean it works. A scientific mind, as you put it, will look for further proof in a larger population to eradicate the possibility that the result was pure chance.

Homeopathy is in the same category as "the earth is flat", "dinosaurs never existed/creationism" and "the sun rotates around the earth".
OK Carlos R. Was just provoking anyway. I know scientists want to know HOW things work but why can't you just reverse the procedure i.e, first find out IF it works then worry about the HOW afterwards instead of thinking we don't know how it works so we won't even bother to try to find out IF it works? If you see what I mean!
  #316  
Old 13.04.2011, 22:24
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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OK Carlos R. Was just provoking anyway. I know scientists want to know HOW things work but why can't you just reverse the procedure i.e, first find out IF it works then worry about the HOW afterwards instead of thinking we don't know how it works so we won't even bother to try to find out IF it works? If you see what I mean!
Because it's something that has never shown any evidence whatsoever of working in any way, it'd be illogical to do anything with it. We might as well conduct clinical trials treating cancer with coco pops or AIDS with salsa dancing. Fact is, it's not like herbal medicine which is actual chemicals at work that should be studied so we can improve upon nature. This is just mumbo jumbo.
  #317  
Old 13.04.2011, 22:37
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

Oh it definitely does work!

I diluted my whisky bottle into ten gallons of water,.... well I think it was ten gallons but it could have been more ....... spent the weekend shaking it all up ... put the container on my trailer and hauled it around the village behind my bicycle ......and now I just need to pour a glass of "my" water ... and it`s SO relaxing .. and much cheaper than when I used to pour a whole tot and fill it up with plain water!

Not recommended for beer as the beer goes flat mixed with plain water. But with whisky it realy does work. At least I think it does. Or is that just my wishfull thinking ... placebo effect?

But seriously. Homeopathic treatments only work on bodies that are internally "clean" and "pure". It does not do much for msg, alcohol and/or chemical saturated beings. Those beings are better off with "hard drugs" from pharmacies. They cut through the lard and barriers to get to the problems instantly. Natural type cures take time to meander and enjoy the internal scenery.
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Old 13.04.2011, 22:56
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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...first find out IF it works then worry about the HOW afterwards...
That's precisely what the situation of many drugs that have been through clinical trials is. I've said it before, but I'll repeat it here. We don't know the half of how some treatments work. We do, however, have proof from studies that their effects are real. You don't have to know the "how" a drug works to set up a study of "IF" it works.

There's no proof of homeopathy working beyond anecdotal reports of n=1. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that just because thousands of people take a homeopathic remedy it means that you have evidence from 1000s people. You don't. The fact remains that you have evidence from a 1000 n=1, i.e. individual data that cannot be combined.

A clinical study will do its best to eliminate all probability that any effect seen is due to chance, by removing as many variables as possible, with the exception of the treatment under investigation in as large a population as possible.

I do fully accept that the placebo effect may be at play, and we don't fully understand it, but equally there's a nocebo effect. There's also plenty of evidence of positive thinking and attitude being beneficial in many situations - from treatment to survival. In treatment situations, this could potentially be explained by the release of natural chemicals within your body that enhance your well-being and immunity, e.g. the effect of endorphins in sport. The fact is that many people have, e.g., cancerous cells, or bacterial infections, or damages muscles that our body's natural immunity and repair systems clear up before we ever become conscious of them.

However, if for the sake of discussion, we assume that the placebo effect is a 10% improvement over nothing, a "real" treatment might give you a 80-90% chance of improvement.

I know which my money will be on.
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  #319  
Old 14.04.2011, 08:56
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

Well here's something else for you all to pour scorn and derision on but, if I were a scientist, I would love to test the theory of the anthroposophists i.e., that homeopathy acts upon the etheral body or aura. (But of course, you will say - there is no aura).

Anyway, with kirlian aural diagnosis we could photograph the aura before and after treatment with homeopathy. (Yes I know 1000 objections against kirlian aural diagnosis), but I think it's best to forget double blind trials and dilutions etc. as these have brought no evidence.

Probably all too simple for the scientific mind but sometimes the simple things in life are the most effective . Anyway why does science have the right to ignore 100,000 anecdotes to the contrary?
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Old 14.04.2011, 09:05
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Well here's something else for you all to pour scorn and derision on but, if I were a scientist, I would love to test the theory of the anthroposophists i.e., that homeopathy acts upon the etheral body or aura. (But of course, you will say - there is no aura).

Anyway, with kirlian aural diagnosis we could photograph the aura before and after treatment with homeopathy. (Yes I know 1000 objections against kirlian aural diagnosis), but I think it's best to forget double blind trials and dilutions etc. as these have brought no evidence.

Probably all too simple for the scientific mind but sometimes the simple things in life are the most effective . Anyway why does science have the right to ignore 100,000 anecdotes to the contrary?
Um...because they're anecdotes? It doesn't matter how many there are. Golly, kids'll say the craziest things... Oh, and there is no aura.
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