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Old 11.04.2011, 13:32
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Bear with me, it's 8 to 1 on this thread, I have kids to look after and am trying to keep up.
So your arguments should be more potent... they certainly need to be...
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  #142  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:35
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Sorry UTH, but that's a bit of a homeopathic face palm...



By implication, you are saying that there's something in the dilution (i.e. thermodynamic properties), therefore there's something in homeopathy (through some sort of thermodynamic effect), therefore there's a cure. If you're not, then the reference is completely irrelevant.

For the record there are lots of effects of mixing x with y with z, or diluting a from b, but they have no therapeutic relevance.

What most of us here are saying that by dilution there's nothing in it (homeopathy). Punkt.

People have here have scorned the effects of dilution. The study I posted was linked to dilution, not to Homeopathy. I can't make it any easier than that. Once people accept the effects of high dilutions, then perhaps we can throw that anti-dilution custard pie in some other direction, rather than at Homeopathy.
  #143  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:35
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

After a long and involved discussion on the subject over the weekend, my wife (who is very, very clever indeed) and I (who is not) came to the conclusion that the dilution principle of homeopathy, while being all but useless for medicinal purposes, is actually spot on when it comes to people.

Here is an example:

This is Patrick O' Leary. His blood is 100% undiluted Irish. He has never drunk green beer, worn a leprechaun hat or kissed the Blarney stone.


This is Enrico Cavalo. His great great grandmother on his mother's side was Irish, making his blood 1/16 Irish. Every March 17th he dresses like a tit.



If that isn't proof of the homeopathic principle in action, I don't know what is.
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  #144  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:35
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Bear with me, it's 8 to 1 on this thread, I have kids to look after and am trying to keep up.
Fair enough - I'll change side to make it more even...
  #145  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:36
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Well first you need some cell with a virus or disease. Then if you want to reproduce the body's own immune system then do you know what you do?

BANG IN SOME IMMUNE CELLS. Some macrophages and dendritic cells will do the trick nicely.

Add you homeopathic remedy. Adjust the osmolarity to make sure it doesn't have any effect.

Wait and see nothing happen.


Oh yeh and this thread again? Seriously?


Sorry, how does a Petri dish reproduce the immune system in it's entirety ?
  #146  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:38
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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People have here have scorned the effects of dilution. The study I posted was linked to dilution, not to Homeopathy. I can't make it any easier than that. Once people accept the effects of high dilutions, then perhaps we can throw that anti-dilution custard pie in some other direction, rather than at Homeopathy.
I agree. It's important to understand that there's a lot, lot more to homeopathy than just dilution
  #147  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:41
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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I agree. It's important to understand that there's a lot, lot more to homeopathy than just dilution
Like what? Holding buttercups under peoples chins to see if they like butter?
  #148  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:42
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Sorry, how does a Petri dish reproduce the immune system in it's entirety ?
You add them yourself
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Old 11.04.2011, 13:42
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Way off the mark. Homeopathy is supposed to stimulate the body's own immune system. How do you reproduce that in a Petri dish ?
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Sorry, how does a Petri dish reproduce the immune system in it's entirety ?
How does a person with suppressed immunity take to homeopathy?
  #150  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:44
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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If that isn't proof of the homeopathic principle in action, I don't know what is.
Not that it's needed, since less is of course more, but more evidence here
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Old 11.04.2011, 13:44
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

h



My post was originally much much longer but I've diluted it down to just the one character above. It should still make sense.
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  #152  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:45
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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How does a person with suppressed immunity take to homeopathy?
Given that the purpose of Homeopathy is to stimulate and improve the immunity system, I could only say "very well".

Some other medicines would suppress the immune system I fear...
  #153  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:47
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Given that the purpose of Homeopathy is to stimulate and improve the immunity system, I could only say "very well".

Some other medicines would suppress the immune system I fear...
So you would have to ummm.. dilute the solution further to make it more effective for their sluggish immune system, right?
  #154  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:50
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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So you would have to ummm.. dilute the solution further to make it more effective for their sluggish immune system, right?
No, again another misunderstanding on Homeopathy.

A remedy at 30c , is different to that same remedy at 200c and 1M

They would be used for different symptoms/diseases.

You would not 'increase' the potency/dilution to get a greater effect of the same remedy for the same symptom.
  #155  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:50
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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If you can show me a double-blind study that displayed markedly different results between a homeopathic remedy, and a normal glass of water, given that both were administered to the patient as being a homeopathic remedy, then I would have some sympathy for your arguments.
Not bad, a nice measured reply that answered almost all my points - except the one above?

For a full dissection of Newton's Experimental Laws as a proof, here's a link to a PDF download - http://iopscience.iop.org/0143-0807/8/1/002/
If you could do the same to support homeopathy, that would be great too.

Last edited by terryhall; 11.04.2011 at 13:53. Reason: forgot to refer to the quoted q - correct link this time...
  #156  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:51
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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How does a person with suppressed immunity take to homeopathy?
Given the correct preparation that has been suitably potentised for the miasm in question, one doesn't actually need an immune system, the "immune system" being a concept that long post-dates homeopathy.



I had that Edward Bach in my cab once.
  #157  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:52
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Judging by the petri-dishes I used to find in our fridge at home, and the fact that my wife was working in cancer research at the time, I'd say quite a few
But the cure isn't actually being tested is it ? Maybe research is being done. Maybe cells are being grown, but the results in a Petri dish are far from what may be seen in the human body.

Kudos for your wife and her research by the way.
  #158  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:52
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

I advise anyone in doubt to read this fantastic book:

http://www.trickortreatment.com/

Notably - there is a 10K GBP Prize to win for a convincing review on the efficiacy of homeopatic remedies that extends the placebo effect.

Hurry up - almost 3 years since start of the challenge!

Good luck
  #159  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:53
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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Given the correct preparation that has been suitably potentised for the miasm in question, one doesn't actually need an immune system, the "immune system" being a concept that long post-dates homeopathy.



I had that Edward Bach in my cab once.
Only in name...
  #160  
Old 11.04.2011, 13:54
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Re: Strike 1 for the anti-homeopathicists

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But even many of Newton's laws of physics were "replaced" by Einstein's theory of relativity.
Not really replaced but just understood to be a special case of.

99.9999% of engineering cases (including even the Moon landings) use Newton's laws rather than Einstein's because the result is virtually identical in all realistic real world situations and the Maths in Newtonean physics is so much simpler.

You cannot really compare this to medicine where you cannot claim that placing dead frogs on your skin is a special case of antibiotics.
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