You are so correct. Unions will represent teachers when kids will be the union's priority.

I also think it is important to teach kids to position themselves politically, but not actually teach them our political opinions. They will pick the opposite, anyways.

I know you meant other kinds of politics and funding.

Edu quality is defined by how well we think, though, not how much cash or technology gets poured in.

Chiming in not only as a teacher/teacher-in-ongoing-training-because-Switzerland-doesn’t-accept-my-diploma (but that’s another story), but also as a kid who was labeled as gifted (independently reading books at age 3)—

Every child and their situation is unique. Some teachers will be able to work with that and some won’t, some local systems are more prepared than others, but at the end of the day, you do your best for your child. That doesn’t always mean pushing for gifted classes. At age 7 I was tested by a psychologist and given the mental age of a 14-year-old. In my case, my parents went for homeschooling (USA) as many other families in the area were also homeschooling, thus we had no lack of social interaction nor of qualified teachers (it’s nice to learn algebra from your best friend’s mom who’s getting her doctorate in maths...). But homeschooling is much tougher (even impossible in some Cantons) in Switzerland nor is it the best solution for every family. Private school can be an option for some, and some public school teachers are willing to give extra or different work, suggest extra curriculars etc.

But honestly in many of these so-called gifted cases (i say that because honestly I really dislike the term, just as I dislike “special needs”—when in reality both terms are simply used for those who don’t fit the arbitrarily designated “norm”) the child becomes more or less like the others by university. I wasn’t extraordinary and still am not extraordinary at uni. I am often more “mature” one could say than my peers—let’s just say I’m a bit of an old soul. But that doesn’t make me smarter or “gifted”. I have no doubt that I was out performing my peers at certain ages, but most if not all of that has now evened out. The most important thing for me during those years was quality interactions with adults.

No you don’t want a kid getting bored at school, but the teacher can do so many little things—like asking said child to help others who are struggling—to keep the child engaged. And the parents can model the right attitude to have, as well as giving extras at home like big brother big sister types of relationships (a program where an adult volunteers to be a student’s big brother or sister, taking them out to events, reading books together etc.) Even private lessons in other languages or music etc.

So the long and short of what I’m trying to say is: There’s so much more to life than book learning. Even if the classroom isn’t as challenging as the child needs, there are other ways to engage the child with life and learning. Starting with books and adult relationships. By all means try to arrange for the best learning situation possible (be that arrangements by the public school, switching to a private school or, where possible, embarking on the great homeschooling adventure) but be aware as well of all the other ways a child can learn and engage in life.

Thanks AnnaSophiaA for the honesty and opening your story to the members.


Basically, from a parent perspective, there are two main questions:
1. how to utilize or fulfill the child's potential?
2. how to ensure that he/she will remain happy during the process?

Read carefully the post above. You'll get good ideas about keeping your child eager to learn, grow and to keep them happy at the same time. Thanks AnnaSophia, excellent post and one that I could actually relate to.

So far so good, daily extracurriculars, home tutoring and letting the child decide for themselves what they are after works great. Keeping a tight comm with school to see what works and what needs more brain food at home. But this is a family thing, not a school thing.

Aladin doesn't need pointers. Those were the most crucial questions for parents out there. Thanks, aladin, for ponting it out, it is never obvious here for parents how much responsibility the edu system here needs the parents to consider.

It is quite obvious for many of us, actually. I have friends who were told by the school they shouldn't worry about anything because everything will come right in time, give the child time and space etc etc, school will make it, trust the system...something along this line. I don't know if I can generalise though, I guess it depends on the teacher or the school. (one particular case struck me as almost unbelievable - they found out in the forth grade, when the teacher is changing, that the child barely knows anything)

I think it's the opposite, though, parents need to observe and notice how happy their kid is at school. Being understimulated is a real thing. Kids don't often know it themselves, or don't care since they compensate by social activities. Even if school or teachers don't believe it or don't have the time to notice...that's why aladin's questions are the crucial ones. The ratio of skill sets nourished by state edu systems is always different in every country. It is no better nor worse, me thinks, just different.

Totally agree with that, it's some of the teachers who don't, or are not communicating very well with the parents. I think in many cases it's a question of communication, I tend to believe most of the teachers are doing everything they can to ensure each child is properly stimulated during class hours. (I'm an optimist)

At the risk of sounding like an "inspirational" bumper sticker, kids should always be the priority.... but rather like parents putting their own oxygen mask on before their child's... the unions are there for the teachers because they can't prioritise the kids if they aren't looked after too.

To say education quality isn't affected by budget or tech is naive, imo. Look at the highest performing schools anywhere and, with few remarkable exceptions, because there are always those, the most successful will have smaller classes (therefore more teachers, teachers being the most expensive bit of any school budget) and lots of tech.



Agreed. But Greenmount is right. Asked and answered in the post by AnnaSophia.

It's a both thing. Success in close collaboration and positive, regular reinforcement of skills, no?

Involved, not pushy, parents are key.

I agree. Maybe a few may feel threatened by questions coming from parents, it is unfortunate. Or have negative experiences possibly with some entitled attitudes coming from foreign parents, but it is all a question of good comm. When you think about it, a kid here only has teachers 2-3yrs max, so if it is not ideal, the next round my help. Kids are more stimulated back home in the edu system, more advanced (in data and factual info, really). But. If you happen to have a bad teacher back home, you are stuck for way longer. And there is less emphasis on languages, street-smartness and general class heterogenity. So...pans out.

__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Are you saying the CH system is supportive or it isn't? 2-3 years with a less-than-ideal teacher if no checks and balances is a long time. Diversity (heterogeneity, in your words) is in Swiss systems or it isn't? I'm finding this post of yours to be rather unclear. Could you clarify?

I won't answer for MC, but this is a good question. Is the CH system supportive? If I judge by what I was told by all the parents/people I know, the Swiss system is supportive up to a certain point. In the sense that they bring everyone to a rather satisfactory level but they don't know how to deal with exceptions. Any by that I don't mean only above average smart kids/not-so-smart kids, I mean kids who really are different one way or another - be it the way they learn better and accumulate a set of skills, or have behavioural issues (that's such a large topic I don't even want to get into), in general anything that sets them apart from the main group. But honestly, I wouldn't know if that's just a misconception, it's plain wrong, partly true, or whatever degree or shade of accuracy. It happens to me too because I'm human, but I rarely jump to conclusions before knowing the whole picture. I still haven't got my answers, still learning about the education system here.

Aww, it's so difficult to be involved but not pushy. I found out. "I was a wonderful parent before I had kids..." On a more serious note, I totally agree with you. I sometimes doubt I'll be able to keep myself in check all the time, so to speak. But probably this is why we need to discuss more often with teachers.

It's possible. I've been on both sides of the conversation. But I get what you mean.

Your statement seems to be accurate. I heard this from few parents and teachers as well.
Please note, that we have to mention that it is stated in comparison to other countries, e.g. US.
one factor which points it out directly, is the easiness of applying homeschooling in US vs. CH.
homeschooling is one of the methods which is used to encourage gifted children, or ones with special needs.

Regarding public school systems I can say from my studies in the US and CH that it depends a lot not only on the canton but on the commune and on the individual school.

I personally know a family in a village not too far from me who are having a horrible experience with the first years of school; the teacher doesn’t teach anything but does arts and crafts all day (these are children who should be learning to read but haven’t even covered the alphabet—they had “briefly treated” the letters A through E by the end of the year, teacher’s own words ). My friends in the village next door are having a fantastic experience.

It’s very hard to categorically say things about the Swiss (or any country’s) public school system. I would venture that MOST Swiss public schools are more supportive (of teachers and of parents) and more inclusive of the parents in the education process than MOST American schools. But these are huge generalizations.

So much comes from the culture as well. If the parents see school as the place that will teach their kids all they need to know, it’s only a matter of time before the system is overloaded. In my opinion this is what is happening majorly to (most, surely not all) American public schools. Teachers get little back up from parents (or from their principals—in the district i was going to teach in, a disruptive child was no longer allowed to be sent to the principal nor to study hall for a time out/talk with another adult. Instead the teacher had to deal with said disruptive child while managing the 25+ other students...). Parents (often) seem to think that the school is responsible for teaching basic manners and, in some cases I’ve known teachers who were held at fault for the child misbehaving at home or getting a bad grade.

Does that happen in CH? Yep. I have a friend who teachers gymnase and has a terrible time with parents getting angry about their kids’ grades. But I’d venture that it still happens less in CH than in the US. Again we’re talking painting with a big brush here.

All that to say, it’s always a good thing for a parent to advocate for their child, and hopefully it’s happening in an environment where the teacher is also seeking a solution to whatever problem has arisen, whether behavioral or lack of stimulation etc etc. In any case, as a teacher who spends a lot of time around other teachers, we’re generally always thrilled to have parents caring and getting involved (except when you’re angry about grades or bad behavior at home )

Edited to add: as regards children “outside the norm” I do think Switzerland struggles. It’s the country of the average man, no? Kidding aside, I’m not sure if that’s from a lack of specialized teachers or what. Again in the US, how well a school adapts to an out-of-norm child varies immensely, but there’s also a lot more teachers who have done special education training.

I like to see the Swiss system as still having lots of room to grow, but as being open to that growth. I think parents being informed and advocating with clear understanding of their child is one major tool in this. We teachers can only do so much advocacy if it isn’t perceived as a need.

I’d also like to see Switzerland get a little more on boars with homeschooling. I know that’s another can of worms, don’t want to hijack the thread, but it really can be the best option for some children, especially in families where the money isn’t there for private school but the child has a very real need the school isn’t meeting.

Don't wholly agree. We do know how to differentiate, but we often lack the resources, especially time.
I am a teacher in the Swiss system. We have been taught how to differentiate the work or set more open tasks that can be completed by weak as well as stong students in a different manner. Because teachers differentiate the work in the lower grades, by the time kids reach us in grade 5/6, the gaps between low and high achievers have widened considerably. The slow learners keep learning very slowly, and the fast learners move on quickly. We end up with kids at the very low and very high end of the spectrum and very few in the middle.
Add in kids with behavioural or physical special needs and we are getting seriously low on resources. I have a special ed teacher supporting me for 3 lessons a week, I have one kid with ADHD and 2 with IEPs, one with dyslexia and another with Dycalculia, as well as 4 others that struggle significantly with the basics. I am lucky as my colleague is "almost" finished with her training, two parallel classes make do with a a teacher that does not have any training. There is never enough time to meet the needs of all the kids. For all tasks I give them, I bascially have to make 5 versions: two for the IEP kids, one for the low achievers, one for the middle and one for the high achievers. Technically the spec. ed teacher is supposed to make the tasks for the IEPs, but as she is only with me for 3 lessons, and overworked with administrating said IEPs and all the other paperwork, she does not have time to do so, nor do we have the time to discuss lessons covering every subject for all the days she is not here.

All the lessons for special ed that the inspectorate allows our school get put in a pool, it is up to he principal to dole out the lessons as he sees fit. This includes gifted as well as support for the kids with ADHD, Dyslexia or Dyscalculia or just general learning difficulties. Kids with severe special needs do get some lessons on top of that. The pool seems to get cut a little more each year.
My school actually currently offers a gifted program and a specially educated teacher, because our principal believes in it. My gifted students can go there for 3 lessons a week; the very bright, but not officially gifted kids in my class also profit, as they get to go along for one of the 3 lessons. This teacher is leaving this summer, and we do not yet have a replacement, so it is unsure whether the program will continue.

Add to that the rising class sizes. A few years ago our school moved to split grades across the board K1/2, 1/2, 3/4, 5/6. Teachers were promised class sizes would stay small because of it. Now we are at 24-25 students in at least half of our classes.

Thank you for your post, swisscanmom! We're getting incredible feedback on this thread - very clear, very detailed posts.Totally reassuring too.

Tbh I never thought of home schooling as a solution for anything, I don't know how could that function if the parent is not a teacher herself/himself (and teaches several subjects at that). It's not only about information here, we (most probably) lack pedagogical training that it's really necessary. For me personally it's one thing to do cool stuff at home, funny experiments, read, sing, play, whatever keeps a child interested and happy, but to replace school in the physical or classical way....if someone chooses this path, which is not very simple to do in CH, they should really know what they're getting into. No-one can afford to play with their child's future because they can't cooperate with the system and of course, help their child improve what needs to be improved. Anyways, I'm pretty sure there are cases when home schooling seems like the best idea. I'm reserved. I do believe kids can learn a lot of things at home though, starting with manners, how to solve their conflicts, apologise when in the wrong, be fair, be kind, not to hurt others with rude remarks, etc etc etc - basically to be a decent human being, first and foremost. Maths too! Ha. For instance. Or some chapter in chemistry they didn't quite get. But as I said, school is so much more than information. Anyways, this is just my opinion, I know this subject has been debated numerous times and some parents are really disappointed at the lack of resources here.

Homeschooling is definitely a challenge and for sure not the right choice for many. However it can be done extremely well, as for instance in my case when several moms (and dads!) with professional experience got together and shared the load. The early years my mom did herself (between books and online programs) and later on I had science from former nurses and an experimental chemist, language from professionals and/or natives with teaching experience, and English from women who had taught at university (including my mother). It was quite a group of people. Far from typical, and I will say (as someone who was homeschooled all the way!) that the more homeschooling families I meet, the more I realize just how lucky my city was to have such resources. I know two families here who are doing it well, using online programs and private tutors and taking full advantage of every social opportunity possible (gym classes, sports teams, church activities, camps etc). It’s a huge investment of resources, often less than a private school but a big investment all the same. I do think it can be done well and can be the right choice for some, but I’m far from advocating widespread homeschooling. Yet I do see it as a solution for SOME families, especially with those children «outside the norm» providing the parents spend the necessary time money and energy investing in the process.

I definitely agree with you that a lot can be (and should be!) learned st home, regardless of what schooling system is used. And I would venture that is most teachers’ main complaint, that many parents aren’t invested enough in their children. That may sound harsh, but I really think that. Friends of mine recently attended a parent - school meeting to discuss sex education and education for internet safety. Out of the whole school only 4 parents showed up. Not very encouraging for the school to keep offering such (in my opinion vital) opportunities for the parents to know and discuss the curriculum of sensitive and important topics with their school.

Side note, I apologize for spelling or other errors as my phone appears to be stuck in French mode and isn’t cooperating very well with text entries at te moment.