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  #61  
Old 10.05.2011, 13:33
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

Pather I couldn't agree more. If the kids were older than I would also talk to the kid if the teachers weren't resolving it but as you say they are too young.

It's not wise for me to approach the mum at the moment as I am a hot headed little madam at the best of times and add to that the fact that it concerns my daughter then I would guess I'd be treading a thin line and lose my cool.

I trust the daycare managers/owners as they have been nothing but helpful in the past and I have not raised this with them before. I have only had discussions with the assistants and the boys mum.
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Old 10.05.2011, 13:40
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

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I think to take edu system and values from back home and expect them here might be fruitless in these kinds of situation. Lot of parents actually encourage their kids to be rough since they think it will help their kids not become a pray to bullies later, it's astonishing. Kids really are rougher here than elsewhere, even with a teacher around.

I would wait for the school (might take a week even, or 10 days for the procedure to happen, an official sans parents meeting, then meeting with you). If they are evasive and won't help, I wouldn't hesitate and contact the office of day care placement, with a letter from a ped, copy of the letter to the day care and photos.

I would probably throw a sympathetic sentence or two to the boy's mom in the lockers if you see her, very casually, ie "Aw, must be rough to deal with some behavioral troubles like these, we had to officially complain, let's hope he gets out of this phase quickly, these kids are something else, aren't they", you know, the usual momma talk, and see if she puts more effort into curbing her kiddo's aggression.

ETA - just saw the reply, that's great, you got good daycare! I am sure you will sleep so much better now.
Great idea with the sympathetic sentence!! I will definitely use that one when I bump into her.

It's funny what you say about the kids being rough. I had heard a lot about this but hoped that by raising my daughter with my values then she would be ok. Her Dad (Swiss) is keen that she fights back in situations like this but my stance is to tell a teacher and tell mummy. I don't want to raise a kid that is a ruffian!!
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  #63  
Old 10.05.2011, 16:10
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

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Great idea with the sympathetic sentence!! I will definitely use that one when I bump into her.

It's funny what you say about the kids being rough. I had heard a lot about this but hoped that by raising my daughter with my values then she would be ok. Her Dad (Swiss) is keen that she fights back in situations like this but my stance is to tell a teacher and tell mummy. I don't want to raise a kid that is a ruffian!!
That was my stance too, but now I'm actually second guessing my own values. My daughter, does tell the teacher - who does nothing much! And now, there is always some kid or the other, and I have to tell her to hit back. But the poor kid is too afraid to! And the boys are much stronger than her.
Her Dad who is also Swiss (notice a pattern??) wants her to fight back too!
She will start Primary school this August, and I do hope it will get better.

All the best for the meeting, and try not to get too upset - dont give anyone a reason to think that you are being neurotic or making a mountain out of an ant hill, take some Bach Bluten Rescue drops before you go in!
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Old 10.05.2011, 16:32
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

I had a terrible time with a biter at my playgroup. He was a lovely little boy except when it came to his emotions. It's impossible to watch them every second as it happens so fast. I bought a book (teeth are not for biting), I talked to him, I sat him in the book corner when he bit and had the praktikantin shadow him as much as humanely possible. It still happened. I was at my wits end.

After yet another meeting with his parents and a more or less, last chance scenario I decided we should stop all the warnings. Mornings from his Father, at school drop off from his mum, and a circle time mention from me to the whole group. It stopped, 6 months of lost sleep, paranoid trailing and lots of mums complaining. I realize that it's no compensation for the parents who's child is being bit but for us child-care workers it's also an absolute nightmare.

Just another observation, some kids bite when they feel overwhelming emotion for another child, instead of cuddling they sink their teeth in! I found the mums who's own child had gone through such a phase the most understanding when it happened but others just wanted the kid out ASAP.

About 30% of 2-3 year old's will go through a biting phase, some stop pretty quickly and others.......well you've read both sides.

I hope this little one stops soon Mini.
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  #65  
Old 11.05.2011, 08:57
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

Oldhand, I think the daycare assistant's feel the same way as you did. They seemed really upset when I went to pick up the little one last night and they had a chat with me and explained that they have no idea where the scratches came from as they didn't see anything happen. They acknowledged that the biting has become too much and are going to work with the managers to come up with a solution one way or another. They said that my daughter and this little boy really enjoy playing together most of the time and gravitate towards one another. The problems arise when one of them has a toy that the other wants and where my daughter will shout "no" the little boy will bite as he is unable to speak.

Personally I don't care if he can't speak, he still shouldn't bite!!

Anyway, they tried to keep them apart as much as possible yesterday and hopefully this will be the beginning of the end of this horrible episode.

I have a meeting scheduled with the manager/owner on Tuesday next week. Sadly her dad can't make it so I'll be going alone which isn't ideal as I'll probably forget half of the things I want to say even if I write them down!!
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Old 11.05.2011, 16:17
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

Have a good meeting Mimi,I'm sure they will do all they can.
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Old 11.05.2011, 16:47
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

Similarly to Oldhand, my specialisation is with small children - in my case 0-3 years. There are just a few rules that we apply to the toddlers, and the first one (can you guess!) is "We bite food, we don't bite people". Unfortunately, there is a very good reason why we must have this rule.

From a parents point of view, you really only have two options - work with the childcare and trust them that they are taking steps to manage the situation, and/or remove your child from that care...

It would be unusual to find a childcare for children between 1-3 years that do not have 'sporadic' experiences with children who bite, scratch or push.

It is a very normal behaviour for a significant percentage of children, and usually is a 'phase' - it fades as their language comes in and the frustration levels (related to not being able to express yourself) come down...it would be rare/unusual for a child over 3 to bite, and certainly the consequences would be quite strongly applied within a childcare or school setting...

Personally, my question would be whether this child is specifically 'targeting' your child, and going out of his way to reach her ? Have you been told that, or are you assuming that to be the case ? It might also be possible that there is a situation where 99% of the time this other little kid actually really likes your daughter, and likes to be near her, and is her 'friend' and then the biting happens...something triggers him off...I have observed children who will follow another child around continuously, and then wonder why the child gets fed up with them and pushes or scratches them, because they are tired of being followed...

If it's a more generalised 'whenever anyone gets too close' or 'competing' or 'tiredness' as a factor, then you really have to rely on the centre to manage the behaviour and avoid the sorts of situations that trigger the biting.

It's not going to go away 'instantly' and whilst I totally get the 'angry tiger mother' feelings when your own child is injured, at some point you could try putting yourself into the other mother's shoes and imagine what it might be like for her to know that her child is doing this...

At some point, also, no matter what happens, the child's behaviour is no one's fault (no one would want your child to be bitten, carers usually take their care and responsibility pretty seriously). You can work with it, you can find strategies, you can observe, you can test consequences and interventions, but that's an ongoing process, not an 'instant quick fix'...

I assure you, if there was an instant way to stop toddlers from biting, we would all share that secret knowledge!

The key for me is that the childcare workers and yourself work together to get a plan in place, and that you as a parent are reassured that the situation is being managed as best as possible.

On the other hand, if your child is bitten and it breaks the skin (bleeding) then there is appropriate first aid that needs to be applied (although toddlers aren't usually keen to have ice or band-aids applied to their skin, so it can be a little tricky to do this)...
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  #68  
Old 17.05.2011, 13:14
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

Nervously heading off to the meeting now

Fingers crossed....
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Old 17.05.2011, 17:40
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

Meeting must be over?
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Old 17.05.2011, 18:10
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

Sorry, straight back to work meetings..

Anyway, I'm not too chuffed with the meeting to be honest

It was all in German despite me asking for English but typical me I didn't push the issue as I choose to live here and I should be more fluent by now. I understood the gist but not the full story and I couldn't say what I wanted to as eloquently as I'd have liked.

Their stance is kids under two will bite. It's normal and mini mimi is very bright and sometimes too eager which attracts the attention of biter as apparently they both are quite headstrong. Mini mimi doesn't bite or hit however she can be a bit selfish with toys and doesn't like being told "no".

The outcome is they will try to stop it and will continue to tell the boy "no", give him time out and make him apologise.


Feel like I've let my daughter down
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Old 17.05.2011, 18:33
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

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Sorry, straight back to work meetings..

Anyway, I'm not too chuffed with the meeting to be honest

It was all in German despite me asking for English but typical me I didn't push the issue as I choose to live here and I should be more fluent by now. I understood the gist but not the full story and I couldn't say what I wanted to as eloquently as I'd have liked.

Their stance is kids under two will bite. It's normal and mini mimi is very bright and sometimes too eager which attracts the attention of biter as apparently they both are quite headstrong. Mini mimi doesn't bite or hit however she can be a bit selfish with toys and doesn't like being told "no".

The outcome is they will try to stop it and will continue to tell the boy "no", give him time out and make him apologise.


Feel like I've let my daughter down
Does her father understand the German properly at least?
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  #72  
Old 17.05.2011, 19:12
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

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Does her father understand the German properly at least?
Yes he is Swiss but couldn't make it. Although not always a bad thing as he tends to antagonise situations like this....mind you, I could've done with that today I think
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  #73  
Old 17.05.2011, 19:26
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

Hey you, don't be so hard on yourself! You did the best you could in a stressful situation without any support from mini mimi's father. All you have to do now is make sure that they follow up on what was agreed in the meeting the rest is up to them.

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Sorry, straight back to work meetings..

Anyway, I'm not too chuffed with the meeting to be honest

It was all in German despite me asking for English but typical me I didn't push the issue as I choose to live here and I should be more fluent by now. I understood the gist but not the full story and I couldn't say what I wanted to as eloquently as I'd have liked.

Their stance is kids under two will bite. It's normal and mini mimi is very bright and sometimes too eager which attracts the attention of biter as apparently they both are quite headstrong. Mini mimi doesn't bite or hit however she can be a bit selfish with toys and doesn't like being told "no".

The outcome is they will try to stop it and will continue to tell the boy "no", give him time out and make him apologise.


Feel like I've let my daughter down
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  #74  
Old 17.05.2011, 19:48
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

See if the measurements are of any help, if not, go back again at them. Now with the argument you agreed to improve the situation, but obviously you're not good enough in implementations. What are you going to do about it NOW ???

Hey chin up, you did your best and it's a good start
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Old 17.05.2011, 20:05
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

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Sorry, straight back to work meetings..

Anyway, I'm not too chuffed with the meeting to be honest

It was all in German despite me asking for English but typical me I didn't push the issue as I choose to live here and I should be more fluent by now. I understood the gist but not the full story and I couldn't say what I wanted to as eloquently as I'd have liked.

Their stance is kids under two will bite. It's normal and mini mimi is very bright and sometimes too eager which attracts the attention of biter as apparently they both are quite headstrong. Mini mimi doesn't bite or hit however she can be a bit selfish with toys and doesn't like being told "no".

The outcome is they will try to stop it and will continue to tell the boy "no", give him time out and make him apologise.


Feel like I've let my daughter down
Although I don't know you I feel for you and am sure I would have reacted in exactly the same way if someone had deliberately hurt one of my 3 girls whilst they were in child care.

Perhaps you could write another letter to the manager something along the lines of

"following on from our meeting on ....... I thought it would be useful for all concerned to put into writing the points which we discussed and the actions which are to be taken by all parties to bring about a resolution to this issue" you could then list all the things which they said they would do and anything which you are intending to implement with your daughter to reinforce what you are already doing.

Hopefully this would confirm to them that you are taking the matter seriously and that you aren't just going to lie down and let the matter drop.

Good luck with it all. x
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  #76  
Old 18.05.2011, 08:37
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

Thanks guys.

I have written to the management this morning (in English) and have asked them to provide me with a summary (again in English) so I can be sure I understand fully their comments and agreed action plan.

I am so frustrated. It's at times like this I wish I lived in the UK as I know I will never be good enough at German to support my daughter in difficult situations like this.

The more I think about it the more I feel like they were treating me like an over protective mother and just going through the motions to appease me
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Old 18.05.2011, 08:48
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

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I am so frustrated. It's at times like this I wish I lived in the UK as I know I will never be good enough at German to support my daughter in difficult situations like this.
Don't punish yourself because of that. Adults have more difficulty in learning new languages. I am sure it will get better as soon as your own child starts learning, and you can piggy back her german lessons
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Old 18.05.2011, 09:18
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

Mimi,

I don't know any mother who would have react any different than you did. Don't beat yourself up. You asked to have the meeting in english and they didn't even bother to provide this to you, while they teach in english as well. They could have done a bit more effort.

You didn't let mini-mimi down, THEY let you down.

Huge hugs and kisses to both of you!

Nil
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Old 18.05.2011, 10:24
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

Mimi, don't be hard on yourself. These sorts of meetings are always so hard when there is just one of you and more of them and they will have been on the defensive. I suspect they had been dreading the meeting as much as you. I don't know anyone who wouldn't have found the experience intimidating. For you to have managed to do it in your second language shows great strength, some people would have avoided the whole thing because they would find it uncomfortable.

You have not let your daughter down. If you had done nothing and not complained then you would have let her down. But you did complain and that is the most important thing because now they know that you are not happy and that you will not let this rest until you are satisfied that your little girl is safe and well looked after. Asking for confirmation in writing is a good idea, it's much easier for you to go back to them then if you don't feel they have put what they agreed into action. Remember that they have a duty of care to your little girl, and that you have a reasonable expectation that she will be safe when with them.
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Old 18.05.2011, 12:49
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Re: How to complain to daycare?

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Mimi, don't be hard on yourself. These sorts of meetings are always so hard when there is just one of you and more of them and they will have been on the defensive. I suspect they had been dreading the meeting as much as you. I don't know anyone who wouldn't have found the experience intimidating. For you to have managed to do it in your second language shows great strength, some people would have avoided the whole thing because they would find it uncomfortable.

You have not let your daughter down. If you had done nothing and not complained then you would have let her down. But you did complain and that is the most important thing because now they know that you are not happy and that you will not let this rest until you are satisfied that your little girl is safe and well looked after. Asking for confirmation in writing is a good idea, it's much easier for you to go back to them then if you don't feel they have put what they agreed into action. Remember that they have a duty of care to your little girl, and that you have a reasonable expectation that she will be safe when with them.
You are spot on about them being defensive. It really felt like a tag team taking it in turns to convince me that it is normal and not their fault.

I managed to remain calm and agree that occassional bites are normal but not regular ones. I also told them that I acknowledge that it is difficult to be there to stop every incident and that on the whole I have been really happy with the daycare and my daughter loves it there (the diplomat in me coming out there).

I just feel that had it been in English I would have come away knowing that I had made myself clear and that they knew that I was upset but not overly so. That is pretty hard to convey in a second language (where I am nowhere near fluent) so I came across a bit too nice as I didn't want to offend them. Firm but polite is hard to do in German

Thanks for all of your comments.
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