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  #41  
Old 28.05.2011, 18:10
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Re: Is this normal? (creche & medicine)

my understanding is that there are two reasons why suppositories are better than oral medication. Firstly, the dosage is reliable, and secondly, it works faster. Nothing to do with being comfortable.

I took my youngest to a sunday Paed because he was quite unwell, and she did a rectal temperature. I was horrified. There's no reason to put a kid through that, and he now has a fear of going to the doctors. Ear or underarm measurements might not be quite as accurate, but it was pretty obvious that he had a very mild fever.

My other son has been treated at the kids hospital in both Australia and Switzerland, and every Paed I met, young or old, was very serious about making it as positive an experience as possible, as the fear of doctors and negative psychological experience of hospitals, is a serious issue for them.

Each had their own strategy - explaining things to kids realistically, not promising something they can't give, making jokes or singing funny songs, and giving some sort of 'reward' afterwards (he has a certificate, three soft toys, craft pack, and other souvenirs)...our GP gives jellybeans...
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Old 28.05.2011, 18:56
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Re: Is this normal? (creche & medicine)

Totally unacceptable and not normal !!! Can't say what the rules are here but when my kids were at kindergarten in Germany, they called us the minute they thought a child was feverish and they were not allowed to give the children medication without a doctors certificate explaining the dosis and reasons. And administering a 'bullet' without permission is a definate No No. Complain !
  #43  
Old 28.05.2011, 19:27
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Re: Is this normal? (creche & medicine)

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my understanding is that there are two reasons why suppositories are better than oral medication. Firstly, the dosage is reliable, and secondly, it works faster.
Yes, both of these are true.

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Old 28.05.2011, 23:43
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Re: Is this normal? (creche & medicine)

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I don't know anyone who actually likes taking medicine in any form (unless they are into that kind of stuff).
Well, I kinda don't mind break this to you, but my child and lots of others do not mind syrups. At all. Since she was about...6 mo. I worked hard on her not minding it, glad it paid off. Got meds dispenser, always calmed her down, took my time. I know there are critical times, such as bellow.

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What do you do if your baby vomits up the dose of medicine? Give her another dose of it or hope at least some of it went into her system?
Vomiting I completely agree with. Non womitting, easy and controlled supp's though uncomfortable, as opposed to taking time to calm the baby and giving syrup, no for me and my kiddo. And made it clear to the staff.

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I don't think the use of "shove" or "force something into the butt" when discussing medicating children in ways you somehow disapprove of is in anyway ironic. There is nothing to suggest irony. Deliberately provocative maybe.
No, that exaggeration was totally meant ironically, since I don't know an adult who wouldn't mind supp's, so children not being happy with are even more logical to me. You do force supp's into the butt, sure, how else would they get up there? You may call it differently, I don't have a problem with it.

It is interesting to get assessment comments from you, so I was...hang a sec, unhelpful, unsubstantiated, uninformed and unbalanced statements, deliberately provoking, anything else? Grumpy much lately?

Just allow people to have different oppinion. You are happy with giving your child suppositories, it's ok. I am not going to over analyze your posts and start reaching out for some judgmental adjectives, makes me chuckle. I tried to avoid supp's at all cost and worked on my child cooperating taking syrup instead, I did it on time, on purpose, because I knew it's a thing done in here, so did it before my child went to day care and could relate on her being cooperative with the staff. Why should it bother you? You are on a mission today, aren't you...
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  #45  
Old 28.05.2011, 23:44
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Re: Is this normal? (creche & medicine)

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I can't see a tantrum throwing 2yr old taking a supp very nicely, either. You need two people to hold and shove. Just like you need two to pour into a kiddo's mouth, if the child is not calm and cooperating. It's a powerstruggle isn't it, no matter what. I would rather have a baby calm and take the meds, then force something in her butt.
My wife usually looks after the kids medication- it's better that ones does it when they are ill to ensure they get the right dose. Kids prefer there mum when they're not well.

But sometimes I do have to do it. The last time our youngest was given a suppository, we were far from home and he developed quite a high fever. How do I know? I walked into a pharmacy and asked to borrow a thermometer. I also asked for some medication to deal with it.

Then, and here's the really clever bit , I told him I was going to change his nappy. I took the old one off, put in the suppository and put the new one on. It happens several times a day - it's normal.

I can only say that when given suppositories, ours have not even flinched. They make much more of a fuss when you put their socks or a sun-hat on on (which isn't much of a fuss).

I reckon in the case that you describe (with your treatment in the manner of patient care in One flew over the cuckoos nest), the child would have reacted badly if you had stuck a bowl of strawberry ice-cream in front of it and told it to eat it.

P.S. I know nothing about child care but some things really are just common sense.
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Old 29.05.2011, 00:28
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Re: Is this normal? (creche & medicine)

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My wife usually looks after the kids medication- it's better that ones does it when they are ill to ensure they get the right dose. Kids prefer there mum when they're not well.

But sometimes I do have to do it. The last time our youngest was given a suppository, we were far from home and he developed quite a high fever. How do I know? I walked into a pharmacy and asked to borrow a thermometer. I also asked for some medication to deal with it.

Then, and here's the really clever bit , I told him I was going to change his nappy. I took the old one off, put in the suppository and put the new one on. It happens several times a day - it's normal.

I can only say that when given suppositories, ours have not even flinched. They make much more of a fuss when you put their socks or a sun-hat on on (which isn't much of a fuss).

I reckon in the case that you describe (with your treatment in the manner of patient care in One flew over the cuckoos nest), the child would have reacted badly if you had stuck a bowl of strawberry ice-cream in front of it and told it to eat it.

P.S. I know nothing about child care but some things really are just common sense.
Common sense for you, perhaps. Mine says no supp's for older babies, unless there is the ultimate emergency. Which just some fever (actually OP didn't even know what fever it was, was just told some fever) wouldn't be a reason enough to act clinically. And my common sense woulnd't be to not tell a child older than 6mo that I am going to put something in his butt, either. Not clever in my books, since if changing nappies hurt, he might be apprehensive next time and put up a fuss to have his nappie taken off. Why all that? See? Common sense for you, is not for me. Common sense for me and all the folks I know is not administer supp's to baby that can swallow meds and is used to it, rather than bother his butt. Having a cooperating baby is not hard work. Why make things more uncomfortable, when they can easily swallow and learn to realize when mom says it's meds for fever and gives that little talk, it means serious stuff. Why treat them as objects and insert things..I leave that for eye drops, nose sucking fun and other necesarry evil. Supp's I save for the real real crap. Not regular fever, or flu, etc. Creches in the area seems to give only supp's, and also to older babes. Might not be a big deal to some, obviously is to others.

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I reckon in the case that you describe (with your treatment in the manner of patient care in One flew over the cuckoos nest), the child would have reacted badly if you had stuck a bowl of strawberry ice-cream in front of it and told it to eat it.
?
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  #47  
Old 29.05.2011, 09:53
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Re: Is this normal? (creche & medicine)

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Just allow people to have different oppinion. You are happy with giving your child suppositories, it's ok. I am not going to over analyze your posts and start reaching out for some judgmental adjectives, makes me chuckle. I tried to avoid supp's at all cost and worked on my child cooperating taking syrup instead, I did it on time, on purpose, because I knew it's a thing done in here, so did it before my child went to day care and could relate on her being cooperative with the staff. Why should it bother you? You are on a mission today, aren't you...
I have no problems with people having different opinions so long as they stick with facts and not mindless speculation ("most babies find suppositories unpleasant", which, when challenged, turned out to be some babies you knew"). What concerns me with people who write with emotive words like "shove" and "forcing things into the butt" when discussing matters related to children is what others will think who are attempting to make an informed choice about medicating their child.

You either intentionally or unintentionally put a negative slant on the issue built around something that sounds tantamount to abuse, then you back peddle saying it's all "ironic" (I'm still struggling to find the irony in that).

Suppositories for babies and toddlers IS an acceptable and effective way of administering medicine here in Switzerland. Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean you should publically scare monger it with hearsay and thinly veiled emotion.

I gave my reasons for finding syrup troublesome based on what my son's doctor told me and were mainly related to spillage and vomiting up the dose which can easily be classified as "fact". Now we use it because my son is older and it's just easier (see, we can be open to both!)

If you had found some statistic that said "70% of babies were found with rectal bleeding after using suppositories" or "suppositories in babies are responsible for diarrhoea" I would have respected it and it would have been a useful eye-opener for me.

As it happens, and given your reaction, I did some research on the internet to see if anything you said could be substantiated. Apart from stark warnings advising parents not to use "force" and don't over medicate (all obvious and not exactly rocket science), there was nothing negative about using suppositories in babies or toddlers.

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Old 29.05.2011, 11:05
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Re: Is this normal? (creche & medicine)

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Well, I kinda don't mind break this to you, but my child and lots of others do not mind syrups.
Having known an inquisitive child who TWICE took medicines intended for parents (not my child and not my medicine I hasten to add) I'd be very wary of giving a small child any 'fluid drug' which was in any way palatable! However careful you are in your home, other people DO have medicines around.
We used suppositories very rarely, our kids had a 'self-recovery' mode, but it was the method of choice while the children were pre-Kindergarten.
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And my common sense wouldn't be to not tell a child older than 6mo that I am going to put something in his butt, either. Not clever in my books, since if changing nappies hurt, he might be apprehensive next time and put up a fuss to have his nappie taken off.
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I can only say that when given suppositories, ours have not even flinched. They make much more of a fuss when you put their socks or a sun-hat on on (which isn't much of a fuss).
Ours accepted it too - and it was a lot easier and less fuss than making the kid who had eaten her mother's tablets vomit enough to empty her stomach and ensure she didn't have to be hospitalised again!

There are certainly pros and cons but the idea that being given a suppository automatically hurts or is even particularly unpleasant, is simply not true. In ye good old days the temperature was always taken rectally too if you wanted an accurate reading.

However, back to the beginning, which medicines may be given, and how, should be sorted out with the 'authority' whenever the child is left in the charge of others - whether Day Care or grandmother.
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Old 30.05.2011, 15:01
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Re: Is this normal? (creche & medicine)

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I have no problems with people having different opinions so long as they stick with facts and not mindless speculation ("most babies find suppositories unpleasant", which, when challenged, turned out to be some babies you knew"). What concerns me with people who write with emotive words like "shove" and "forcing things into the butt" when discussing matters related to children is what others will think who are attempting to make an informed choice about medicating their child.

You either intentionally or unintentionally put a negative slant on the issue built around something that sounds tantamount to abuse, then you back peddle saying it's all "ironic" (I'm still struggling to find the irony in that).

Suppositories for babies and toddlers IS an acceptable and effective way of administering medicine here in Switzerland. Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean you should publically scare monger it with hearsay and thinly veiled emotion.

I gave my reasons for finding syrup troublesome based on what my son's doctor told me and were mainly related to spillage and vomiting up the dose which can easily be classified as "fact". Now we use it because my son is older and it's just easier (see, we can be open to both!)

If you had found some statistic that said "70% of babies were found with rectal bleeding after using suppositories" or "suppositories in babies are responsible for diarrhoea" I would have respected it and it would have been a useful eye-opener for me.

As it happens, and given your reaction, I did some research on the internet to see if anything you said could be substantiated. Apart from stark warnings advising parents not to use "force" and don't over medicate (all obvious and not exactly rocket science), there was nothing negative about using suppositories in babies or toddlers.
Oh, nah.

I am not trying to open your eyes at all, in fact it seems you are here only to justify your choices, it seems important to you, obviously, and nobody is actually asking you to justify nuttin'. People are merely stating what their experience they had with said way to medicate. So you made your choice, why are you going against mine I have no idea. Yes, I surely do think creche over use the supp's in cases I have witnessed, and it has been pushed on us by two quaky peds, too. We changed them, went to a really good one, who isn't a big fan of supp's for tots, either, if oral meds pass without problem. Lucky us. Lotsa friends stay away from supp's if they can avoid them, for kids older say 6mo or a year and syrups go down well with them. If a child is puking, we surely opt for supp's. But let me insist, if it is just a fever not so big, no supp's. And I wouldn't be happy if creche aministered, too, without me being consulted. That's all, hon. I could care less what is accepted here as a treatment, or not, can make my own head over this issue and support what seems the most reasonable. And supp's at all times, no. I do not mind deviating from what the norm is here. Voila. I oculd care less you have some spillage troubles with syrups. Some people just simply don't. I also bought a specific gear to be able to administer liquid meds witout spillage, see the photos.

This is not a thesis defence here when people are asked to seriously illustrate every single point of their experience or facts they list. Why should I here? To please a person who cannot take somebody who prefers to treat her kid differently? I say treat your kiddo as you wish, I am doing it this way and why. We have run into kid issues before, haven't we, always when you found out people did things differently and it seemed to me you were a tad sensitive about that. So people do, boohoo. Why turn this into a scientific lecture, with illustrations, attachments, links and pseudo arguments that you call scientific, btw you can find online just about everything, pro and con. Just live with the fact people treat kids differently. I do, others do. Be happy about chosing the "accepted way" in CH. I don't need to read an elaborate articles googled by fellow members, sometimes just a simple post here makes me think. You see? I don't even need to defend my choices and options. To avoid being penalized by somebody who just simply can't stand other people do things differently? Scare mongering? Me? Negative slant? I surely do think most babies don't like suppe's. I did correct myself to Soungrounder palatable "all babes I know". Still not palatable enough for you? I don't say it is harmful. I say, if I have an option to avoid, and I do, I opt for it. To say I scare monger is acually an beautiful exageration on your part. And it is amusing. Just move on.

I am not sure why you take this thread as some kind of scientific platform at all, in fact what kind of battle field do you take this for...I want moms to feel it is ok to share here, without the sillines of scientific links, I give them credit for Google powers. If somebody says I dislike this shampoo, most kids I know cry with it, I will not nail that mom and demand in an uncanny way, to list links and make patronizing comments. I will not have a semantic argument over exageration, or nail her to explain herslef, yady yady. Of course I am glad that somebody here before mentioned there are also other countries that prefer other ways, then supp's way into toddlerhood. Sure, that's my experience, too. People cannot hang and exchange their experiences here? Coz they get nailed for being unscientific? If you want science, don't log on here.

If you want parents exchanging ideas, then stay. But don't ram into people having different ways and opinions. I simply prefer other ways, say what my experience is, and actually, do have a support of generations of docs in my family. If I was the regular doc and clinical kid, I would go for clinical supp's, that are not comfortable. My family, though, prefer the more natural approach, if you care for this info, and that's to opt for more gentle ways if there is a room for it. Capish? My options are not emotional at all. There is no need to have an eye opener for Sandgrounder, nope. Maybe, a one little one, let others share their opinions, without berating them, going after them, and hiding under "I want scientific links". Some people just won't give them. I still care for people's experiences, though, eventhough they will simply say, I use this because this goes down with my child better and because at home we try to avoid this and that.

For that matter, a simple most babies I know dislike supp's, all adults I know dislike them, is a fair statement. Why back paddle? Ironic it was, shove it up somebody's butt wasn't a wise crack, it was an ironic statement to remind ourselves, no, actually, it isn't pleasant.

Now, let's calm this down, we have started something that seems personal, I am not sure why, and is completely derailing the thread. So, let's just move on.
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  #50  
Old 30.05.2011, 15:09
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Re: Is this normal? (creche & medicine)



Ladies, ladies, calm down now

Or do I have to come around and bash your heads together?
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Old 30.05.2011, 15:12
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Re: Is this normal? (creche & medicine)

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Ladies, ladies, calm down now

Or do I have to come around and bash your heads together?
Hahaha...yeah.

I am out. Gota put my mod coat back on, being a member is too time consuming.
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Old 30.05.2011, 15:22
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Re: Is this normal? (creche & medicine)

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.......If you want science, don't log on here. ....
Actually, I think that you've got that the wrong way round. There are a hell of a lot of scientists and engineers who use this forum regularly - and who were here a lot longer than you.

If the forum was just full of hearsay and opinions, I for one wouldn't log on.

The paper that Baboon quoted this morning that examined the 21% drop in heart attacks in Graudbunden in the last two years since the new anti-smoking laws was very interesting.
Someone saying that their mother smoked 80 a day and lived to 95 years of age is a trifle waste of everyone's reading time.

If you ladies don't want science then I suggest a mother and baby coffee morning might suit you better.

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Ladies, ladies, calm down now

Or do I have to come around and bash your heads together?
Am I stoking their fire??
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Old 30.05.2011, 15:29
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Re: Is this normal? (creche & medicine)

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Am I stoking their fire??
In a word, yes

I'm of the opinion that suppositories are the way to go. I didn't always feel like this (in fact I was revolted at first!!) but having tried giving my little one syrup and getting covered in it in the process, I prefer the ease of a quick tablet up the bum. She doesn't seem fussed by it in the slightest and as others have said, I at least know she has been given the correct dosage.

In my experience I've found her temperature reduce quicker when using suppositories too which is surely a good thing.....

When she gets a bit older or I find the suppositories are causing her discomfort then I will change to syrup.
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Old 30.05.2011, 15:34
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Re: Is this normal? (creche & medicine)

I quite honestly think we've got this problem sorted now.
Some people will continue to give sirup. Others will continue to give suppositories. Those who are unsure will read this Thread and still be unsure.
About 75% of this Thread is not really the main 'reason' for starting the Thread anyway

I ceremoniouly declare all the world problems solved.
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