Oh ya, it works in English. It doesn't in German and in French, it's far too dangerous to say Ma'am to a Miss (even at advanced age)... so in my world, I must admit that I didn't think of it. Good solution in English though.

Good (side)link - I had always wondered what the IC coding was with the police.

Using "Ma'am" might be regarded as a bit weird in the UK; that's how you address the Queen.

Plus I think the term "Miss" has got a bit of baggage with it these days, too, with many women not disclosing their marital status. You might get hissed at with "It's Ms, thank you very much!"

To answer your question, I don't think the word Nigger is that racist these days. Of course it depends on how it is said and on what circumstance. For example, mmh I do like the sweet dark chocolate (from Migros). So when I'm eating them, my colleagues always ask if i get offended if they tell me that I'm eating Negerkuss (dark chocolate). The reason why they ask such a question can be referred to articles like this:

http://www.unrast-verlag.de/unrast,3,0,437.html

I mean who cares! If someone calls me Nigger I dont care since the famous expression goes' black is beautiful'. So to me nigger also means black hence beautiful. Of course this is subject to intense argument by any mankind/womankind. You can also take it from the Negerkuss (dark chocolate) which I could interpret to mean 'beautiful sweet kiss'. So at times there is something great and not to worry about beyond just being called Nigger!

I'm usually not a fan of these silly pics..but daaaaamn.

Hey Lost_inbroad. Whaa nice pics! Thanks.

Cheers, Copfum

Ok, I think what Lib tried to tell you is:

1. Nigger is not the same as Neger. Nigger is always an offensive word and relates to the slavery in the US. If you hear it in a "positive" context, say a US rap song... well, rappers need to provocate and they do so buy using words that offend grannies.

2. Neger used to be ok. Say up to the 1940s did it basically mean "black person". But even then had it usually a negative aspect: Unlike the US did we not have any African immigrants and "Neger" were imagined to be some savages dressed in rugs hunting with spears... we even had shows that displayed imported Africans like zoo animals!


3. Negerkuss is a term from the 1890s. Nobody should call the chocolate like that anymore - there are plenty of alternatives like Schokoküsse or Schaumküsse... If your friends continuously tell you about the old term, they are actually most likely making fun of you... just sayin'

I Generally agree with you. However, if you hear it in a rap song, it is neither written nor pronounced as "n***er" but rather as "n***a". There is a subtle yet important difference. To me, neither form is acceptable..I just wanted to point out the mistake.

I agree with this, although we were taught (G.10ish) that "Miss" or "Ma'am" were very politically incorrect and for a female "Ms" is the proper title since it does not assume any marital status.

Just to play the devil's advocate---from my last trip to London, strolling around SOHO calling someone "Sir" or "Ms" wasn't totally clear---or PC.


"I saw a transvestite the other day, they were wearing a T-shirt that said GUESS"

Sir/Ma'am strikes me as very American.

Maybe it's my latent socialism, but I never call anybody sir, and hate it when I'm called it. It makes me feel old, and it's usually patronising.

Where I'm from we call everyone "Love" or "Mate", which is also very un-PC in the wrong place.

I always found Sir/Ma'am to sound very British.


I've never had anyone call me Sir, well without being followed by: "You're making a scene" or "Could you please leave".

Thanks Treverus. I do respect your point of view as far as the history of Nigger and its diverse forms of how it is written. To any intellect, there is however no significant difference in meaning in its different forms of spelling. I had known this before i posted my post and thus why on my post I wrote that my point of view is subject to vigorous argument by many.

I beg to differ though that my colleagues make fun of me when they use the term Negerkuss. The fact that they do ask for my opinion before hand shows that they do understand the unfortunate history sensitivity of the word itself, hence they do respect me. Remember that 'Action speaks louder than words' hence one can easily tell what the other want to communicate (good/bad) even without opening the mouth to say the word Nigger. I do have a wide and deeper experience and knowledge in this from my exposure to diverse societies and cultures. cheers

True, and I've seen both those terms being thrown as insults (or at least used in conversation by people who considered themselves witty and in a context that definitely wasn't PC). So where does that take us?

Sorry Copfum, that is just linguistically not true.

The words are in different languages and so you can't draw any conclusions about them just because the spellings are similar. None at all.

Two words with similar spellings might equally well:

• mean exactly the same thing with the same connotation (English hand, German Hand.)
• mean the same thing, but with different connotation or register, e.g. German Ross which is directly related to English horse - but Ross is a much fancier, more literary word, more like English steed. (The ordinary word for horse in German is Pferd - cognate as it happens with a very archaic English word, palfrey.) Another example is Hund vs. hound: in English, the word "hound" can refer to any kind of dog but it doesn't usually. It does in German: so while most people would not call a poodle a "hound", it is definitely a "Hund".
• be etymologically related but mean different things nowadays (e.g. piano which is a musical instrument in English but just means "quiet" in Italian)
• mean two different, totally unrelated things (e.g. bean which is a vegetable in English and a woman in Irish)

There is no way to tell which of these possibilities applies. Even if you've deduced that they apply to the same thing, the connotations can be different. You won't know without examining what the connotations actually are, i.e. how the words are actually used, in each language separately.

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I tried... I really tried.

Thanks MathNut. We're just talking about a word which is racial historically driven and not linguistically driven (though it can mean both). Nigger and its cosmetic versions is driven by racial historical causes hence embods similar meaning in those cosmetic versions be they in different languages.

Of course the other words you put forward are understandable in their different meanings since they are linguistically driven (and not racial).

Not only have we tried, but this is becoming trying.

I think those who offend will have to accept that certain words are no longer politically correct and we should not use them under any circumstances.
Those who have regrettably been offended must perhaps accept that not all of us are up to date in these matters. The meanings of words have changed. They have meant different things in different areas of the world. Not all of us who have offended in the past meant to do so.

Fortunately, for once I'm not guilty as the people I know who don't have blotchy pink skins like me have names and are referred to by them.

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Longbyt

Nope. Words mean whatever they are, or have been, used to mean.

Whether a particular word's usage is "racial historically driven" or some other way, the fact that it is used to mean thus-and-so (for whatever reasons) is a linguistic phenomenon and affects its meaning.

Just because the "same word" appears in two different languages, it does not follow that speakers of both those languages must use it in the exact same way. See my example above: "hound" vs. "Hund." Those are recognizably the "same word" (to the extent the concept means anything at all when discussing separate languages) but they don't mean the same thing in both languages. Why not? Because speakers of English and speakers of German use them to mean different things.

Meaning is an accretion of usage. If a word appears in two languages, and speakers of both do use it the same way, then we say the word has the same meaning in both languages. If they use it differently then we say the word has a different meaning.

Whether the particular usage in question is racially, historically or any other way motivated has no bearing on this.


Here's a thought experiment for you: what if "stop" turned out to be a horribly offensive racial epithet in Kazakh? Do you think that would affect the word's usability in English, which is a completely different language? Or is a word's meaning in English determined by what English speakers mean when they say the word?

I'm not arguing for or against the use of the German word in question, just saying that you can't presume to define German words by their English cognates or vice versa.

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Fixed that for you. In English (correct English that is, i.e. British ) you would pronounce the "d". Unless you are in the forces and speaking to a superior officer, in which case the sound would be more like "Marm", as in marmalade.

HTH

Off-topic but might help to make something (goodness know what) clearer.

In English - in my youth at least
Hello - a casual greeting for good morning/afternoon/evening
Hoi - hey, you there, what do you think you are doing?

In Swiss German around here these days
Hoi - is used for a casual good morning/afternoon/evening
Hello - hey, you there, what do you think you are doing?

Same words, different time, different place, different language, different meanings?