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  #81  
Old 08.07.2011, 09:25
Niranjan
 
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

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There is always a bottom line, when people missinform...One thing is an opinion another one coming with ideas and hidden agendas, for me it is easy to see but not to other more gullible members, it is not wrong to worry about our fellow EFers right?
Honestly, this is going over my head; can someone explain what is being said here in simple, layman terms

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I know, I honestly, in one particular case (which we won't mention but which I think inspired this thread), I see the agenda too. And have made my opinion clear, I think 2yr ago about this without any particular drama, if I remember well.

I also think misinforming is bad. But I am not sure about the reaction. If saying I have different oppion, stats, education, experience because I work with this might be enough, or, you are quack, go away, there is no place for this here would be some kind of modern version of witch hunt. I don't like witch hunts, and in this particular case, I agree with all the critics, surely do, but the way we push is somewhat counter productive, since it might create more popularity for "not understood, ill treated, genious, miraculous scientist"...I do agree with sentiments of over medicated world, with the push to look for alternatives, so I like to read diverse opinions, and check them with my medical people and specialists later..

So in terms of misinforming, I think it clears confusion up with we keep the debate and share facts rather than stomp feet and shush people away, since then there is no fact sharing. Just a thought, not really on my mind so much, to be honest, I don't want to sounds too envolved or critical..
Just to be clear, since I seem to have been the target of Dr Angela's ire (or did she say spite), I have absolutely no clue what inspired this thread, nor any of the background; I am not such a regular reader of these topics.

My rebut was against "specialists" on the forum in general, who seem to ride the high horse and think others are not capable of independent thought. Be it here or in the sports columns or anywhere else. Get off it was my point. The supercilious attitude (sorry couldn't think of a shorter word) is what gets me.
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  #82  
Old 08.07.2011, 09:47
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

I particularly recollect one debate I was deeply involved, when I was new on the forum, it was about the efficacy of specialist running shoes, in 2009. I was soundly booed by a specialist (a now well-established running coach from Basel) for my heretic thoughts (I basically said specialist shoes are b*ll*cks), the usual methods of groaning etc.; he was supported by many other established runners/coaches, because those days I was a mere street-side runner who had never run beyond 10k.

Circa 2011, most of those specialist shoe peddlers have found other jobs, selling alternative products/techniques, because current thought is, those specialist shoes were in fact unadulterated bollocks (Emperor's new clothes, anyone ).

The point is not who was right; the point is anyone, be they specialists or common people, can have a reasoned point to make and that enriches the forum.

So people claim degrees on the forum; who is to verify where/how they obtained those degrees etc. ? IMO it is more dangerous to listen to a "specialist" opinion thinking it is from a specialist so it must be true. Better to listen to plain old common sense, and take it for what it is.
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  #83  
Old 08.07.2011, 09:56
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

I just like a good old argument, myself.

Who needs facts to make a point, eh?
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  #84  
Old 08.07.2011, 10:06
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

No stress, the agenda mentioned was getting clients here and PRing certain way to treat, while being negative about the more conservative treatment (all pretty decently worded, though). I think most of us would find that icky. The point is not to shooo away, the point is to explain and keep the debate going, people with questionable interests here soon embarras themselves, anyways. Be it hunt for popularity, or clients. I like good sound detailed discussions, I enjoy them, if we shooo we will all agree on everything and it gets rather....commie.

Common sense is important, people here seem to have plenty. This is just as you said, a sounding board, I wouldn't take it as a vignette on how people deal with things, rather, how they like to write about them.

My running shoes are 8yr old, is that ok? My feet stop hurting, they used to, but when I run more they are fine. I got Nike Air, nice and light. Something is stressing my shoulders and neck when I run, though, no idea why...I do short distances, and not too slow.
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  #85  
Old 08.07.2011, 10:12
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

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No stress, the agenda mentioned was getting clients here and PRing certain way to treat, while being negative about the more conservative treatment (all pretty decently worded, though). I think most of us would find that icky. The point is not to shooo away, the point is to explain and keep the debate going, people with questionable interests here soon embarras themselves, anyways. Be it hunt for popularity, or clients. I like good sound detailed discussions, I enjoy them, if we shooo we will all agree on everything and it gets rather....commie.

Common sense is important, people here seem to have plenty. This is just as you said, a sounding board, I wouldn't take it as a vignette on how people deal with things, rather, how they like to write about them.

My running shoes are 8yr old, is that ok? My feet stop hurting, they used to, but when I run more they are fine. I got Nike Air, nice and light. Something is stressing my shoulders and neck when I run, though, no idea why...I do short distances, and not too slow.
My running shoes ARE 8 years old, Music Chick, but the holes in the bottom are filled up by pages of the News of the World, and I don't do too much running any more........rather more accelerated hobbling when I see my bus coming!
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  #86  
Old 08.07.2011, 10:15
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

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The point is not to shooo away, the point is to explain and keep the debate going, people with questionable interests here soon embarras themselves, anyways.
I think that is the key, you can try to explain something but if the other end does not WANT to listen...I personally do not like talking to doors or other innanimate objects. Also, I cannot discuss nonsense, it would be like debating whether I believe in the flying spaghetti monster, as much as I like pastafarians...
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  #87  
Old 08.07.2011, 11:00
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

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I think that is the key, you can try to explain something but if the other end does not WANT to listen...I personally do not like talking to doors or other innanimate objects. Also, I cannot discuss nonsense, it would be like debating whether I believe in the flying spaghetti monster, as much as I like pastafarians...
There is no way you can force a reader to read your words. You are, at the end of the day, talking to your monitor, those who want, will read it (many do, I do, with pleasure, since I appreciate your take on things). If you don't like to discuss nonsense, then don't.

I think the perspective is, to explain it for others (to protect them, right?), not the one that refuses to accept your point. That bit is great, about online discussions, the selectiveness of what we want to react to or not. You cannot do more than elaborate on your point of view. Unless, you want to organize some other ways, I always thought cruissades were interesting point of human history...
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Old 08.07.2011, 11:04
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

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There is no way you can force a reader to read your words. You are, at the end of the day, talking to your monitor, those who want, will read it (many do, I do, with pleasure, since I appreciate your take on things). If you don't like to discuss nonsense, then don't.

I think the perspective is, to explain it for others (to protect them, right?), not the one that refuses to accept your point. That bit is great, about online discussions, the selectiveness of what we want to react to or not. You cannot do more than elaborate on your point of view. Unless, you want to organize some other ways, I always thought cruissades were interesting point of human history...
I think you miss my point, I usually explain what I know but then I get responses tha tmake no sense, as much as I understand other points of view regardless of whether or not I agree with them, I usually respect other people's way of thinking unless they are being pushy about it or are just after their own hidden agendas, which is what prompted me to start this thread...
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  #89  
Old 08.07.2011, 11:12
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

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I wouldn't take it as a vignette on how people deal with things
Oh shit, am I meant to get one of those too? Where do I stick it?
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  #90  
Old 08.07.2011, 11:15
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

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I think you miss my point, I usually explain what I know but then I get responses tha tmake no sense, as much as I understand other points of view regardless of whether or not I agree with them, I usually respect other people's way of thinking unless they are being pushy about it or are just after their own hidden agendas, which is what prompted me to start this thread...
I get the frustration, if I was in a discussion with somebody who tells me there is no point in teaching kids, I would try to see why this person thinks this (by the way, my friends are actually unschooling their kids, so there is a school of unschooling )..counteract if needed, but probably wouldn't get upset to the point of name calling or underestimating our readership in thinking they will sheepishly follow the pardon me! quack's methods. You can elegantly make comments about client hunt, that discredits about 90% of your oponent's propaganda. Or, maybe not. Maybe some people will credit, but what can you do. That's internet and people's minds..

Pushiness, ie not agreeing with your point? Or being consistent with what their opinion is? That's not really rude. There are people who will always disagree with you, always. Being disagreed with, on a public forum, is to be counted on, if people are after debates and exchanges. Not group hugs.

Don't take this personally, I am being philosophical. I think I know why you started the thread, I also think your goal has been well achieved.
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  #91  
Old 08.07.2011, 11:21
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Dear MC, not all of us react in the same way, many people confuse my passion for discussing subjects of my interest with being aggressive, I cannot pretend there is some sarcasm in my posts...also interesting the definition of quack:
An untrained person who pretends to be a physician and dispenses medical advice and treatment.
Hence, there is no offense in truthfulness is there?

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Oh shit, am I meant to get one of those too? Where do I stick it?
be careful the SVP might get ahold of this idea

Last edited by MusicChick; 08.07.2011 at 11:26. Reason: Merging consecutive posts.
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  #92  
Old 08.07.2011, 11:40
Focus
 
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

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Dear MC, not all of us react in the same way, many people confuse my passion for discussing subjects of my interest with being aggressive, I cannot pretend there is some sarcasm in my posts...also interesting the definition of quack:
An untrained person who pretends to be a physician and dispenses medical advice and treatment.
Hence, there is no offense in truthfulness is there?


be careful the SVP might get ahold of this idea
Nothing wrong with passion. We need more of it. It becomes a problem when we try to "force" our opinion on others through intimidation.

I may be repetitive about what I believe and do but I do not try to force and or intimidate you into believing what I do is right.

A quack may be a certified doctor. He may be trained but still a quack.

It is just a piece of paper. Are all Drs. good? Do all Drs. do good work? Just because they have a piece of paper does not mean they are right.

You have an opinion but others have their opinions. Because they do not agree with your opinion they are quacks.

It is okay to be truthful but a person needs to be able to see that sometimes truth can be hurtful.

Besides it is truth as you see it versus truth as I see it.

The internet has changed our world because people are beginning to question and see that there "are" different ways of doing things and seeing things.
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  #93  
Old 08.07.2011, 11:40
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

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Dear MC, not all of us react in the same way, many people confuse my passion for discussing subjects of my interest with being aggressive, I cannot pretend there is some sarcasm in my posts...also interesting the definition of quack:
An untrained person who pretends to be a physician and dispenses medical advice and treatment.
Hence, there is no offense in truthfulness is there?
I got my own personal theory on therapist's and MD's treatment of usual preference, which I wouldn't publicize here, hahaha, that's irrelevant..

The thing is, you will hear a lot of untrained persons'opinions here.. You can point out your disagreements with them, call them quacks if you are in rage, but I think that's about all the campaigning that could be efficient.

(by the way to my knowledge, the use of Ritalin is really being scrutinized back home at the moment, and not by quacks, I wonder what is going to come out of it, let's not even get into this, it was not my point, plus don't want to ruffle your feathers even more).
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Last edited by MusicChick; 08.07.2011 at 18:06. Reason: Fonetic spelling
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Old 08.07.2011, 11:45
Focus
 
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

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I got my own personal theory on therapist's and MD's treatment of usual preference, which I wouldn't publicize here, hahaha, that's irrelevant..

The thing is, you will hear a lot of untrained persons'opinions here.. You can point out your disagreements with them, call them quacks if you are in rage, but I think that's about all the campaigning that could be efficient.

(by the way to my knowledge, the use of Ridlin is really being scrutinized back home at the moment, and not by quacks, I wonder what is going to come out of it, let's not even get into this, it was not my point, plus don't want to ruffle your feathers even more).
MC
By the way I posted a link on another thread that maybe of interest to you.

http://www.futurehealth.org/Podcast/...01017-754.html
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Old 08.07.2011, 11:50
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

Ayy, what have we done....
I regret being philosophical.

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Old 08.07.2011, 12:19
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

Focus, my problem with you is because you started posting falsehoods, that MPH was an amphetamine, which it is not, that it acts as cocaine, which it doesn't. Then you started talking about how you treat patients, so you do have an agenda. I never tried to puch my beliefs onto you, I would not want to waste my time. Just because i call you out, does not mean I do not accept other points of view. You were not giving a point of view, you were giving 'facts' that were made up. And it just makes me wonder, that you say you have been 'treating? ADHD for more than 25 years, yet I only read you talking about 1 patient who was apparently some relative of yours, and to top it off, you do not know even what the mainstream medical treatments for ADHD are...THAT makes me doubt what you say.
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Old 08.07.2011, 12:23
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

I don't "do" doctors and hospitals, unless it is for physical bone breakages; too much reliance on their schooling and comparing other cases they've had in my opinion. That's also why I'd steer clear of this place for real advice. I pretty much know what I've got and in most cases one simply needs to listen to one's own body for all the tell-tale signs and act accordingly. I've studied and learned how my body works and using the right balance of physical activity, good nutrition and rest you can pretty much keep most evils at bay.

That's not to say I haven't had plenty of real world experience with others with chronic diseases, but many of those ignored the warning signs and lived unhealthy lifestyles or considered constant pill popping to be a solution to their woes. Treat the cause, not the symptoms. Symptoms are your body's "red warning lights"; modern western medicine has forgotten to look at the human body as a complete working system and tries to get the "quick fix" local ailment treated.

And no, I've never listened to anyone about serious medical advice on EF, because I'd never look here in the first place. But I can't believe some of the questions and answers you get here, "I have an ax embedded in my skull and I'm dripping blood onto the carpet in our rented accommodation, shall I call a doctor or the landlord first ...?" type stuff. Hilarious.
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Old 08.07.2011, 12:28
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

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"I have an ax embedded in my skull and I'm dripping blood onto the carpet in our rented accommodation, shall I call a doctor or the landlord first ...?" type stuff. Hilarious.
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Old 08.07.2011, 12:47
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Re: Searching for Medical Advice in the EF: Common sense

Look guys, I for one know that you can't replace a doctor when you feel like you need one. But, we are humans, and we want to be a little tiny bit in control most of the time, meaning, we gather info before making the first step: going to the doctor.
It does not mean that when we describe our symptoms and ask questions from strangers we want to avoid the said allmighty figure, no, we do that because a) we just want to know and make sure we ourselves understand what our problems are and how to tell the doc so we won't make a fool of ourselves, and, b) we are not unique in having them. These are my observations made on health conversations, though I might as well say that I talk about educated people here, who know the importance of a doctor.
Give people a little credit, my 2 cents.
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Old 08.07.2011, 13:23
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Focus, my problem with you is because you started posting falsehoods, that MPH was an amphetamine, which it is not, that it acts as cocaine, which it doesn't. Then you started talking about how you treat patients, so you do have an agenda. I never tried to puch my beliefs onto you, I would not want to waste my time. Just because i call you out, does not mean I do not accept other points of view. You were not giving a point of view, you were giving 'facts' that were made up. And it just makes me wonder, that you say you have been 'treating? ADHD for more than 25 years, yet I only read you talking about 1 patient who was apparently some relative of yours, and to top it off, you do not know even what the mainstream medical treatments for ADHD are...THAT makes me doubt what you say.
Okay, mph a stimulant. Cocaine is a stimulant.

You are one aggressive person. I wish you would read the messages before you make aggressive statements.

I never mentioned the word patients. I do not treat patients. I have clients.

My goodness you are paranoid. Agenda. Please tell me what my agenda is. I would like to know. One shares some stuff and you start attaching someone and accusing them of having an agenda.

Questioning is fine but your calling some one out by flaming me for my opinion is intimidation. this does not make for healthy discussion. You make me think of the doctors of yester year who could not accept another opinion.

Of course you do not have to accept my points but to flame someone for their point of view is narrow minded and inflexible.

Again I have not been treating ADD people for 25 years. I never wrote this. I use a method to help people with attentional issues. it works but that does not mean other methods do not work. What I do have issue with is your waving your certificates around and telling people is the only method of treratment is medication. On the other thread I mentioned a book that you were prepared to flame until others came to and proved to you that it was legit. After that no more comments and now you are on this thread waving your banner(certificate)

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Ayy, what have we done....
I regret being philosophical.

I have my own biofeedback, thank you very much, it's free.
MC, give it is a rest. I have not ulterior motive or agenda.

In one of the messages previous a person suggested that "we" should made be be more acceptable of peoples opinions or something to that nature.

I have mentioned EF socially on a few occassions and I get rolled eyes. The comment being there are a few who spend all of their time on EF controlling, flaming etc.

a lot of crowd mentality.

Last edited by MusicChick; 08.07.2011 at 13:45. Reason: Merging consecutive posts.
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