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  #21  
Old 06.07.2011, 10:54
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

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Old 06.07.2011, 10:55
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

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I'm all for a bit of school discipline, but there has to be some kind of limitations. My daughter's classmate was slapped across the face by her teacher last year. The parents wrote a letter to the school board and the teacher "went on sabbatical" for a year. I'm not sure if any other measures were taken. All the girl did was say "ca fait chiant*" under her breath after getting a poor mark for her homework, unfortunately the teacher heard her

*"that really pisses me off"
Error, lol,

'c'est chiant' it's dead boring

'ça fait chier' that really pisses me off. Lesson over- no punishment administered.

Last edited by Odile; 06.07.2011 at 13:36.
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  #23  
Old 06.07.2011, 10:55
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

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If you say so.

This thread isn't about me and my life, though, so shall we stick to the matter in hand?
Yes sir. Sorry sir
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Old 06.07.2011, 11:03
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

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Error, lol,

c'est chiant it's dead boring

ça fait chier that really pisses me off. Lesson over- no punishment administered.

I think it was the latter then. Apparently the teacher was walking away, stopped dead in her tracks, walked back to the girl and administered the clout. My daughter said the whole class were in total shock and the victim just sat there sobbing. The teacher was reknowned for losing her rag on many an occasion. This was in 4P, by the way, so kids were 10 or 11.
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Old 06.07.2011, 11:12
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

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It's not my place to tell parents how to bring up their children, but if a trained and qualified teacher is unable to manage the behaviour of the children in his class without administering physical punishment or manhandling them, then he shouldn't really be doing the job.
I'd like to add - children who can neither say "please" nor "Thank you", have some form of manners and some polite address are a clear sign that the parents haven't been doing their job.
I have some (sadly confirmed) prejudices, I am aware of them. Yet I am thanking the gods on my knees that I am not a regular teacher, but only have to endure the bunch of unbehaving young humans by the hours...

On museums visits:
The best behaving classes are those with a strict teacher, and what are run on mutual respect.
A teacher who "rules" by cruelty (putting down children) has very unruly children, who usually try to bond with the museums educator.
A teacher with a happy-clappy-every-one-is-a-free-spirit-class are the ones giving me headaches, and have me insisting that the teacher stays and mind his/her class. Because with everyone so free (read selfish), it's worse than unruly. It's plain nuissance.

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We are not living in the 19th century any more. Slavery has been abolished, we no longer send children down the pit, and dragging first graders out of classrooms by the scruffs of their necks is no longer permitted.
True. We have advanced and today we are supporting countries where that is still happening (by insisting on having everything on the cheap / and or don't care where our food, computers, clothes come from)
We are still in the Victorian era - only the top of the food chain is now defined by geography mostly (Europe/Oz/North America) instead by money in the afore named countries.

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As Olygirl observed, this is only hearsay, but if it is true I'd have serious concerns about the competence of the teacher involved.
I'd first have a talk with the teacher. What if that child has been interrupting class for ages? We can't form a proper opinion on that one incident.
It's like having a co-worker blearing about the break room "I've been given a warning because I was late today" receives sympathies and "poor you"'s while omitting to the fact that she's been late for months in a row.

You see - we are not in a position to form a proper opinion. I'd recommend to the mother to have a talk with the teacher. If this isn't going to help, ask the "Schulpflege" for a mediator. Maybe the teacher has some history. Maybe he hasn't.
Worst case: apply for the child being transferred into the parallel class.
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Old 06.07.2011, 11:15
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

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I just want to have a feeling about what is right, wrong or acceptable behaviour by a Swiss first grade teacher in a Swiss school. Both of our boys have had problems after we moved to a new area and school. We have heard on several occasions and it was mentioned by another parent that the teacher has marched the child (ren) not only ours but others out of the class on several occasions when they have misbehaved in class by the grabbing them on the backs of their necks. Is this type of behaviour by the teacher in a Swiss school acceptable or are such things here tolerated? Sorry the child is 7, just wrote 6 in haste!
Like others have said unless you or another parent were actually in the class it is hearsay. Speak to the teacher.

My son came home from Kindergarten about 6 weeks after starting into his 1st year saying that his teacher had dragged him off the chair and pushed him to make him do something in front of the class. He told us that he cried as he didn't want what the teacher had made him do.
My hackles were immediately up and all I could think of was want sort of barbaric teacher would do something like this. We made an appointment to speak to the her and when we are asked her about the incident she explained what had happened. All the children in the group (half the class) were asked to wish the birthday child something and my son hadn't wanted to because of his lack of language skills. The teacher gently guided my son with her hands on his shoulders and assisted him with this new Kindergarten ritual.
I know who I believed in this whole "being dragged" incident and it wasn't my son!

Approach the teacher and ask for clarification on the incident. Your gut instinct will hopefully help guide you to the right conclusion.
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Old 06.07.2011, 11:17
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

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The teacher gently guided my son with her hands on his shoulders and assisted him with this new Kindergarten ritual.
I know who I believed in this whole "being dragged" incident and it wasn't my son!
So she admited it! I hope you are going to sue.
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  #28  
Old 06.07.2011, 11:56
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

I remember the days when you'd get the chalk board rubber thrown at you or the meter ruler slapped on your desk within a cm of your hand!
I turned out fine
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Old 06.07.2011, 12:00
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

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I think you weren't paying attention in history class!
I did but I must of forgot wot I was learned.
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Old 06.07.2011, 12:03
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

I think it is because back in the day , the mother(or father) would stay at home and raise the kids properly. these days there is no time for them in many families and they keep themselves occupied with gadgets.....I find kids these days have no respect for anything unless they are being raised with some (corporal) punishment. I will do the same with my kid.... if my kid got slapped by a teacher or grabbed by the neck, I would go see the teacher to ask what he did and if it is bad enough he will receive another punishment. and not the o poor you someone punished you to teach you some manners treatment
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  #31  
Old 06.07.2011, 12:12
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

Children do need to be treated differently to adults in order to be shown discipline and how to understand right from wrong.

Having said that, that doesn't mean this needs to be demonstrated through physical force. Would an adult pull another adult out of the room by the scruff of his neck? If my boss is pissed off with me he politely tells me so or even gets a bit shouty but he'd never tackle the situation physically.

Why do teachers think it's acceptable to do this with kids?

It sounds to me that the teacher is having problems dealing with kids that step out of line and the easiest method is to manhandle them out of the situation.

As others have said, it's probably the usual EF storm-in-a-teacup thread involving kids so no doubt the thread will descend into made up gap-filling with the teacher being lambasted for stripping the kids naked and attacking them with a birch whilst laughing about it with colleagues.
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  #32  
Old 06.07.2011, 12:16
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

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I remember the days when you'd get the chalk board rubber thrown at you or the meter ruler slapped on your desk within a cm of your hand!
I turned out fine
Don't tell me you were in my class as well?
Though when he was in a very bad mood (French/German/History teacher) he threw books accross the class room.
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  #33  
Old 06.07.2011, 12:17
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

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I think it is because back in the day , the mother(or father) would stay at home and raise the kids properly. these days there is no time for them in many families and they keep themselves occupied with gadgets.....I find kids these days have no respect for anything unless they are being raised with some (corporal) punishment. I will do the same with my kid.... if my kid got slapped by a teacher or grabbed by the neck, I would go see the teacher to ask what he did and if it is bad enough he will receive another punishment. and not the o poor you someone punished you to teach you some manners treatment
Not sure I agree with the 'punishment' bit, but I do think kids spend too much time shut in their rooms with their gadgets.
Mothers these days need/want to work but, to get a bit of peace, it's too easy to let the kids get on with their 'stuff', especially when the parents are completely worn-out with multi-tasking.
I see this with my own grandchildren but I'm too far away to help and throwing in 'advice' and then trundling off to another country is counter-productive.
Normal problem of the nuclear-family.
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Old 06.07.2011, 12:18
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

If the teacher put her hand on the back of the child's neck to guide it physically in the right direction, then it's a trick I was taught in Norwegian teacher's training: never touch a child's arms/hands/legs/head, alternative being leading the child with one hand in its upper back just inviting it to walk in the desired direction, not pushing it around.

I never touch anybody, I teach older teenagers, but in primary school I would follow Norwegian teachers' training hand book. But if someone feels the need to sue teachers, go for it, we need precedence cases instead of contradictory opinions from all sides. I'm thinking practical here, no judgement from me.
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Old 06.07.2011, 12:22
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

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Sounds as though you've lived a somewhat sheltered life DB.
My daughter, a primary school teacher in a deprived part of south London was quite seriously hurt by a weapon-wielding five-year-old. and there were another 29 of the little bl*****s causing mayhem while all this was going on.
Teachers in the UK aren't allowed to touch the little tykes, even in self-defence.
Hello, I don't think it's about leading a sheltered life or not. As a teacher myself I think no matter what the situation there is never an excuse to touch a child in a harmful way as what kind of a message are we sending the children. A good teacher should be able to firstly control the class without resorting to violence and secondly control her emotions no matter how stressed and angry a child makes her feel.
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  #36  
Old 06.07.2011, 12:22
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

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Not sure I agree with the 'punishment' bit, but I do think kids spend too much time shut in their rooms with their gadgets.
Mothers these days need/want to work but, to get a bit of peace, it's too easy to let the kids get on with their 'stuff', especially when the parents are completely worn-out with multi-tasking.
I see this with my own grandchildren but I'm too far away to help and throwing in 'advice' and then trundling off to another country is counter-productive.
Normal problem of the nuclear-family.
Do you know if there are any vacancies at this peaceful place of work?

Most of the families I know that work the same amount we do are also concentrating the short time you have as a family to do great stuff together. It's knackering but worth it.
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Old 06.07.2011, 13:04
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I did but I must of forgot wot I was learned.
Its old news anyway

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I remember the days when you'd get the chalk board rubber thrown at you or the meter ruler slapped on your desk within a cm of your hand!
I turned out fine

Not in my class. The ruler there actually touched your hand (the whole palm) and it hurt! I was 7.

Last edited by gata; 06.07.2011 at 13:37. Reason: Merging consecutive posts.
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Old 06.07.2011, 13:11
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

My old maths teacher was a dead shot with a piece of chalk.
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Old 06.07.2011, 13:27
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

It's all gone sublime to the ridiculous. When I was a kid, some of the teachers had discipline methods that beggar belief now. And as Anthony says, if they complained at home they got another clout from mum or dad.
Now you can't say 'no' firmly to a kid and mum or dad, or both, walk/s into the classroom and gives you a black eye or threaten to sue you. If a child refuses to go out of the class for a cooling off period (to allow her/him to regain control, for the class to be able to get on, or for the teacher to regain composure) then said child can be guided out by holding the back of the shirt/jumper, firmly but gently, as Faltrad says, without really touching the child. I hate this 'I was hit hard and it didn't me no harm' attitude- but at the same time, parents need to see that in most instances working WITH the teacher, rather than AGAINST- to instill good discipline and control (within limits of course, common sense as to prevail) is the very best for the child in the long-term. Divide and rule is rarely a good option- and children very quickly pick up the vibes that they can manipulate with that method.

I'd ask the teacher for the chance to discuss this calmly, explaining that you just want to ascertain the facts and work with her/him as a team to help your child towards better self-discipline, etc, insisting on the 'team' effect. If the response is positive, great. if the teacher reacts negatively and defensively, then take it further.
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Old 06.07.2011, 13:32
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Re: 6 year old marched out of the class by the scruff of his neck

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We can't form a proper opinion on that one incident.
While this is true, we each can have an opinion based on what has been said so far. How accurate that will be, who knows, that's what debate is about...constant movement.

I'd definitely ask the child to demonstrate to me what has happened. I doubt a 6yr old will go out of his way to lie or exaggerate. Later on, maybe.

If that teacher has a history of blowing up, I"d question. One can usually tell really well from the reaction of the teacher, I would ask her to have a meeting with parents and a supervisor, too.

I agree, having not exactly uber disciplined kids at times as a teacher, a teacher who resort to anything physical, abusive language or verbal aggression, needs either more training or a time off. That's just poor performance. I do not know what makes us tolerate things towards kids that nobody here would tolerate towards themselves.
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