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Old 14.08.2011, 15:40
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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Okay, back on topic..... does anybody think that suicide rates overall show how happy or unhappy a nation is?
Thank God thats sorted.....for one momemt i thought we weren't going to be able to argue about suicide on this sunny afternoon
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  #22  
Old 14.08.2011, 15:40
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Re: Glinaa says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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If you do not agree, then don't. Allright with me.
Allright with me as well. I did not intend to insult you personally. Take care.
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My answer will be Yes, mexicans are way more happy than swiss people.
And what about the people in Zimbabwe? Their rate is pretty low as well.
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3. How are we measuring happiness anyway? Sure, in Mexico, people laugh and sing and dance, but they also live in fear of being murdered by narcobarons.... tough to measure.
Personally I think this is really the most important question and I also actually think that it might be key to Mo's dilemma at the moment.

How do we measure if we are happy?
Is there a difference between happiness and contentedness?

I know some perfectly happy people that would take their own lives for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with their level of happiness.
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Old 14.08.2011, 15:48
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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3. How are we measuring happiness anyway? Sure, in Mexico, people laugh and sing and dance, but they also live in fear of being murdered by narcobarons.... tough to measure.
The same in Argentina. People dance, sing, talk loudly, go out to eat, etc much more than in Switzerland but they live in fear every day that the market will collapse, that they will lose what money they have stashed away in the mattress cuz they don't trust the banks, fear of out of control inflation (it's now 25% a year!), that someone will kidnap their child, etc, etc.

They actually don't trust anyone outside the family and even their brother may stab them in the back. Its interesting the conversations they have among themselves and those they have with foreigners. They tell me that they don't trust their brother, but they would never tell their brother.

But it's fun. Superficially anyway.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:00
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

So a big question is, What is Happiness? Is it always simply getting what we want? Do all of us really want to be happy? Many desire greatness, knowing that will make them unhappy.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:02
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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So a big question is, What is Happiness? Is it always simply getting what we want? Do all of us really want to be happy? Many desire greatness, knowing that will make them unhappy.
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  #26  
Old 14.08.2011, 16:03
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

For me:
  • Happyness is the silly grin, the pumping endorphins, the crazy laughter, the subtle smile, the flirtatious wink.
  • Content is knowing that I am doing the right thing, not hurting other people or myself and generally contributing and living what I would considder to be a "good" life.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:09
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

Geez, why is it expats always bring up the suicide rate and/or the 'happiness index' when trying to quantify why they're unhappy in a so-called paradise. Why is it the Nordic countries, those social democracies so beautiful and serene, score so highly on education, 'quality of life', happiness, low corruption, etc. and yet are at the top of the charts on suicide, particularly male suicide and alcoholism? Maybe they're happiest drinking themselves to death....

I'm not sure what makes the Swiss happy, but I have a feeling it's policing their neighbors and flushing the toilet after 10pm. It's an acquired taste to be sure.....

The worst place I ever lived was a caribbean paradise. Sunny and 84 every god-damn day. I nearly lost my mind after 2 years and fled back to somewhere with sensible weather I could complain about.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:17
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

Paradise syndrome???
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:32
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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So a big question is, What is Happiness? Is it always simply getting what we want? Do all of us really want to be happy? Many desire greatness, knowing that will make them unhappy.
Obviously it's not money. Often times one gets on this forum to voice their opinion of what an unhappy place Switzerland is to live for them. They are often scolded and reprimanded about where else in the world could they live, where people earn such "high salaries".

Happiness is usually personified from the inside out, so why do all the "high salary" people walk around looking so sad and mad?
I've been to countries where people have little or nothing, and they are some of the warmest, happiest people, who don't kill themselves.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:34
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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Allright with me as well. I did not intend to insult you personally. Take care.


And what about the people in Zimbabwe? Their rate is pretty low as well.

Personally I think this is really the most important question and I also actually think that it might be key to Mo's dilemma at the moment.

How do we measure if we are happy?
Is there a difference between happiness and contentedness?

I know some perfectly happy people that would take their own lives for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with their level of happiness.
I can only say about mexico.


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The same in Argentina. People dance, sing, talk loudly, go out to eat, etc much more than in Switzerland but they live in fear every day that the market will collapse, that they will lose what money they have stashed away in the mattress cuz they don't trust the banks, fear of out of control inflation (it's now 25% a year!), that someone will kidnap their child, etc, etc.

They actually don't trust anyone outside the family and even their brother may stab them in the back. Its interesting the conversations they have among themselves and those they have with foreigners. They tell me that they don't trust their brother, but they would never tell their brother.

But it's fun. Superficially anyway.
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1. Stats are off. Suicide/euthanasia is socially much more acceptable than it is in say Ecuador or Ireland. Acts of suicide in these places will rarely be registered as such.
2. Non euthanasia suicide is, to my understanding, something following extreme clinical depression- a mental illness. I do not see that is will automatically trend downwards to the happiness of the population.
3. How are we measuring happiness anyway? Sure, in Mexico, people laugh and sing and dance, but they also live in fear of being murdered by narcobarons.... tough to measure.
Yes, mexico is one of the least perfect countries regarding security, politics, you name it. But the point is that we dont care, we dont go around life bullying the rest of the people. If they see the size of my stroller in mexico i will find a line of people trying to help out, here i find a bunch of people talking to themselves but loud enough so i can hear about the size, why i dont buy other one etc and they can see me breaking my back to go in or out the tram and they will just stare. Those are tiny things that make the difference in someones daily life. in mexico as long as I and my group of friends dont consume drugs i never have to worry about being killed by the mafia, you deal with them and then you fear for your life.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:36
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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Okay, back on topic..... does anybody think that suicide rates overall show how happy or unhappy a nation is?
It certainly says something about the state of men in those countries. Unbelievable how much bigger the suicide rate seems to be amongst men ... I was sure there were more women killing themselves ...

I find that rather alarming. What's wrong with the men on this planet?
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:38
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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It certainly says something about the state of men in those countries. Unbelievable how much bigger the suicide rate seems to be amongst men ... I was sure there were more women killing themselves ...

I find that rather alarming. What's wrong with the men on this planet?
ALL, but thats just another discussion subject
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  #33  
Old 14.08.2011, 16:41
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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ALL, but thats just another discussion subject
Feel free to take the topic where you want.
The English joke that men die before their wives because they want to.
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  #34  
Old 14.08.2011, 16:42
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

I take as a compliment that you think that mexico is one of the happiest places on earth

but seriously you can not compare people over there and people over here, there is a really huge gap in culture, and the way people think every day... here maybe someone is getting depressed because of their work not going well and the crisis hunting its investments ... and over there someone could be worry because they live in a bad neighborhood, where drug deals are happening and people are getting kidnaped or even killed.

Is just different people with different problems and different way to handle them
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:51
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

I do suspect that a lack of sunlight and Vitamin D plays a significant role in the number of suicides here...

I lived in Seattle for quite a few years, which has/had the largest rate of suicide compared to all other US cities, and this was attributed to the lack of sunlight there during most of the year. And the irony is that, like Switzerland, Seattle is often considered to have the best quality of life.

But it seems I've read before that also acting as a contributing factor is the fact that so many people own guns here in Switzerland (due to being allowed to keep them after military service).
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:54
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I can only say about mexico.
Yes, mexico is one of the least perfect countries regarding security, politics, you name it. But the point is that we dont care, we dont go around life bullying the rest of the people. If they see the size of my stroller in mexico i will find a line of people trying to help out, here i find a bunch of people talking to themselves but loud enough so i can hear about the size, why i dont buy other one etc and they can see me breaking my back to go in or out the tram and they will just stare. Those are tiny things that make the difference in someones daily life. in mexico as long as I and my group of friends dont consume drugs i never have to worry about being killed by the mafia, you deal with them and then you fear for your life.

Well, I can't say about Mexico* but I can say about Argentina, they DO care. It's a topic of discussion EVERY DAY. Every single day. Insecurity, insecurity, insecurity. What's going to happen tomorrow, after the elections, what if soy goes down, one more strike, the price of meat (a national right!!!) inconsiderate people who jump out in front of cars when they have the green... it's all fun with our friends, but if you listened to the honking & shouting & huffing that goes on in the streets....

But, whatever, let's have more wine & a BBQ!! Yeah!!!


* Although I'm inclined to say that they DO care or they wouldn't be leaving... but I won't. (Mexico net migration: -3.24, Switzerland: +1.29, Argentine: 0.0)
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Old 14.08.2011, 17:09
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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* Although I'm inclined to say that they DO care or they wouldn't be leaving... but I won't. (Mexico net migration: -3.24, Switzerland: +1.29, Argentine: 0.0)
But most of mexico migration is because they DO care, about their families and a better way to take care of them ... so a lot a people go to the US .. and get a bad payed job there (most of the times they go illegaly), that makes enough money to send back to mexico for their families ... is a sad reality
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Old 14.08.2011, 17:10
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

And here a graph that shows the correlation of # of pirates on climate change.
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Old 14.08.2011, 17:13
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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I do suspect that a lack of sunlight and Vitamin D plays a significant role in the number of suicides here...
Lack of sunlight?! Here? I buy that argument above the 60th parallel having lived in a place where one december had only 20 hours of visible sunlight. That's a lack of sunlight. Here, it's just dreary on occasion. I lived in Portland for a while and though, yes, it rains a lot at certain times of the year, it's no worse than the UK.
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Old 14.08.2011, 17:13
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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But most of mexico migration is because they DO care, about their families and a better way to take care of them ... so a lot a people go to the US .. and get a bad payed job there (most of the times they go illegaly), that makes enough money to send back to mexico for their families ... is a sad reality
What? Flushing your toilet after 10 pm (the eternal Swiss myth that expats like to go on & on about) and pushing a gigantic pram around are much more important, no? It's what makes people happier.

Yes, that was sort of bitchy. But I promise, I really didn't mean it that way. It's part of the question: what DOES make some people happy & others no? Why are there some countries that survey happier but people are leaving, etc. etc. It's a big question. And everyone has to make up their mind, right? For some it's the interaction/connection with people, for other it's security, some weather, some creativity, some outdoor life, etc.

At the end of the day these surveys tell us very little.
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