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Old 14.08.2011, 15:54
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EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

The conversation from: I am not happy :(
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Add to that:
- you live in perhaps the most safe, politically and financially stable country on Earth
- you live in a beautiful area of a stunningly beautiful country
- Switzerland is a pure direct-democracy where personal freedoms are respected
- You live in a country with some of highest average incomes and lowest taxes in the world.
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What a load of bollocks. This are the exact reasons while the Swiss think live in the best place on earth. If so, why aren't they the happiest bunch of people around?
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Um... most are. They just don't show their emotions.
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I started this thread because I just don't think it would be appropriate to have a rant on the thread where an EF member is having a heart to heart.

My main point and question over here for Glinaa would be:
  • Are you really telling me that the people in Iran, Syria, Haiti, Mexico, El Salvador and Zimbabwe are much happier than the Swiss becuase their suicide rates are lower?
  • Many of the countries in the world with the highest living standard indexes around have "high" suicide rates. There is some argument at least that this is due to increased freedom to decide if you really want to go on living or not.
  • Do they count euthanasia in Switzerland's suicide rates?
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Old 14.08.2011, 15:57
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Re: Glinaa says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

We had this one before and it turned into a bit of a handbag-fight. Grab your popcorn and take a seat...
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Old 14.08.2011, 15:59
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Re: Glinaa says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

Please note that before we get this started I want everbody involved not to take the things that I say personally!
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:00
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Re: Glinaa says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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Please note that before we get this started I want everbody involved not to take the things that I say personally!
Kind of hard not to when the thread title states, "Glinaa says...."
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:01
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Re: Glinaa says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Planet_Index

Egypt is clearly higher in the ranking.
Yes, and here are another set of useful principles to go about life with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy_tale

Perhaps you can put a little bit of research into the background of your support material.

That Happy Planet index is one of the most criticised indexes around! Go and read a little about its history and tell me if you really want to use that as a basis for this little debate?
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:02
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Re: Glinaa says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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Kind of hard not to when the thread title states, "Glinaa says...."
I would be more than happy to have the thread title renamed to any suggestions that anybody makes, including Glinaa.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:14
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Re: Glinaa says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

Assisted suicide is not a crime in Switzerland and that throws off the statistics.

ETA: So to answer your last question, Yes, assisted suicide is counted in those statistics.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:17
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Re: Glinaa says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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Please note that before we get this started I want everbody involved not to take the things that I say personally!
Is this some kind of a joke? You've made this into a bashing thread and in fact clearly asked everybody to say I'm wrong. This is not how polls are made. This is how flame wars are made. I'm not going to take part in this.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:24
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Re: Glinaa says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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Is this some kind of a joke? You've made this into a bashing thread and in fact clearly asked everybody to say you I'm wrong. This is not how polls are made. This is how flame wars are made. I'm not going to take part in this.
Okay, how would you like it put rather so that you are not taking it personally? Thread rename? You also contribute to the introduction? Come on, play along. I am more than willing to subscribe to a common set of rules....I just don't want to intrude on Mo's thread.

I also don't intend this to be a poll, but rather a discussion, where there are no right or wrong answers, just debate.

And actually my title acutally asks people to agree with you. I admit that using your name was a little silly and if we can find a mod that will change it I am more than happy.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:26
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Re: Glinaa says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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Okay, how would you like it put rather so that you are not taking it personally? Thread rename? You also contribute to the introduction? Come on, play along. I am more than willing to subscribe to a common set of rules....I just don't want to intrude on Mo's thread.

How about, "Suicide rates show Swiss are unhappy. Do you agree?"
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:27
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Re: Glinaa says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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How about, "Suicide rates show Swiss are unhappy. Do you agree?"
I am happy with that....Now what is the process for getting a mod to rename it?

And thanks to economisto for making that happen.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:29
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

I have renamed the thread. "suicide rates show..." would be misleading, because it's evidently contentious that they do.

I would invite the OP to edit his thread to make it less personal.

Please argue the issue and not the person from here on. Thanks.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:29
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Re: Glinaa says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

I'm also pretty sure that a lot of the countries on that list don't, or can't, provide reliable statistics.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:32
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

Okay, back on topic..... does anybody think that suicide rates overall show how happy or unhappy a nation is?
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:33
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Re: Glinaa says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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And actually my title acutally asks people to agree with you. I admit that using your name was a little silly and if we can find a mod that will change it I am more than happy.
I'm not going to play along, just because I do not find it very amusing to have everybody on this forum asked to verify >my< opinion. An opinion is just that, an opinion. I do not feel a need to prove my argument on a global-scale and will not participate. If you do not agree, then don't. Allright with me.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:35
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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The conversation from: I am not happy :(
First:





I started this thread because I just don't think it would be appropriate to have a rant on the thread where an EF member is having a heart to heart.

My main point and question over here for Glinaa would be:
  • Are you really telling me that the people in Iran, Syria, Haiti, Mexico, El Salvador and Zimbabwe are much happier than the Swiss becuase their suicide rates are lower?
  • Many of the countries in the world with the highest living standard indexes around have "high" suicide rates. There is some argument at least that this is due to increased freedom to decide if you really want to go on living or not.
  • Do they count euthanasia in Switzerland's suicide rates?
My answer will be Yes, mexicans are way more happy than swiss people.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:37
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

Well, just for the record, I didn't see it at ALL like we are attacking or validating her opinion, just a jumping off point for the topic.

Anyway, I don't think suicide rates say much about "happiness" as suicide is a complicated issue tied in with religion, culture, etc. not just happiness.

When my father was dying of cancer he told my mother that if he were not catholic he would have ended his life because he could barely stand the pain he was suffering.

Last edited by miniMia; 14.08.2011 at 16:57. Reason: damg typo!
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:38
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

no.
peope allover europe are coming here for suicide( exit/dignitas)
the statistic says only how many people died here in this spezial service the offer. i have worked for years as a sozialpädagoge in a institution for handycaped people here in zh.
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:39
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

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Okay, back on topic..... does anybody think that suicide rates overall show how happy or unhappy a nation is?
No. In Switzerland's case it reflect the extent to which its citizens feel personally responsible for their destinies. They don't blame the government, or their teachers, or their bosses. This is no nanny state - it's a Selber Schuld state and so they blame themselves (and the Föhn of course) when things go wrong...
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Old 14.08.2011, 16:39
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Re: EF member says: Swiss are unhappy, shows suicide rates. Do you agree?

1. Stats are off. Suicide/euthanasia is socially much more acceptable than it is in say Ecuador or Ireland. Acts of suicide in these places will rarely be registered as such.
2. Non euthanasia suicide is, to my understanding, something following extreme clinical depression- a mental illness. I do not see that is will automatically trend downwards to the happiness of the population.
3. How are we measuring happiness anyway? Sure, in Mexico, people laugh and sing and dance, but they also live in fear of being murdered by narcobarons.... tough to measure.
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