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  #101  
Old 02.09.2011, 10:16
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

I was just about to write that I too walked to Kindgarten at the age of 4, that I too learned to take care of many things at an earlier age, that we too were expected to sort out our differences without parent involvement and so on.. but that was a different country. The country I grew up was the safest in Europe, locals on the way to school greeted you and the lady in the village's bakery knew all the kids' names. It is true that back then parents were discouraged to drive their kids to school, and that kids could independantly play outside until late without any parent supervision from an early age on. But what's also true ist that our parents always made sure there were older kids with us, that we'd go home when they did, that parents called each other to make sure where their kids are and so on.. Swiss parents aren't reckless, they just try to give their kids as much freedom as possible given the circumstances. And the circumstances have changed, Switzerland is no longer the safe country it used to be and therefore a bit more caution isn't always bad, it's just that American and English parents sometimes come across a bit.. hysteric
in their attempt to protect their kids, whereas Swiss parents worry about exactly the same things, just do it differently and seem to trust in the system and other adults more.
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  #102  
Old 02.09.2011, 11:01
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

www.ygoy.com/index.php/child-abduction-statistics

http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.n...t-good-article

Here are a few statistics for you. Unless there has been a massive increase since this was published in 2009 the US doesn't seem to be quite as dangerous as you made out given the population of the country.
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  #103  
Old 02.09.2011, 11:16
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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www.ygoy.com/index.php/child-abduction-statistics

http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.n...t-good-article

Here are a few statistics for you. Unless there has been a massive increase since this was published in 2009 the US doesn't seem to be quite as dangerous as you made out given the population of the country.
These stats back up what's been known for a long time: most abductions in the US are by family members or friends/acquaintances of the family....not strangers.
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  #104  
Old 02.09.2011, 12:10
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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It is such a shame to have this good thread with very good informations being put down and turned into a stupid argument with a Troll.
Couldn't agree more Nil!
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  #105  
Old 02.09.2011, 12:21
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

I had a meeting with my daughters' kindergarten teacher a couple of months ago to discuss her progress over the past year. In almost every aspect she was above average except for the lone category (yes, she is graded on this...) of walking to/from kindergarten on her own as my wife still walks her most of the way there and often back as well. When I explained to the teacher that this was because of deeply engrained cultural differences (on both sides) that we're still coming to terms with, she was most understanding and didn't push the point any more.

As much as we appreciate that teaching kids to be more independent from an early age is of some benefit, it's traumatic too (e.g. for the tearful kid MusicChick mentioned). It's tough for any 4 year old to have to suddenly deal with going somewhere alone and the potential dangers that entails, but even more so for an immigrant child that's just discovered that nobody outside of her family understands her any more!

Although she's now pretty competent in Swiss German, we're certainly not going to push her to go anywhere on her own until she wants to do it. The fact is that there most definitely are freaks and weirdos out there, even in Switzerland, and I'm rather relieved that my daughter still wants my wifes' company on the way to and from kindergarten.
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  #106  
Old 02.09.2011, 15:31
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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Swiss parents worry about exactly the same things, just do it differently and seem to trust in the system and other adults more.
This is very insightful Simon. When I was a kid, this is what it was like in my village in Yorkshire. People knew and trusted each other. Really knew each other. On the way to school or out playing I would bump into adults my parents went to school with. They knew whose son I was and if there'd been any danger, there was any number of houses or shops I could've run into for safety. May be it's something to do with a sense of community which still exists here. There was a downside- it meant you couldn't get away with anything, which might explain why there was little hooliganism when I was a kid. There was no such thing as anonymity.

Sense of comunity doesn't make kids more mature, but it does give them confidence. People lived where they grew up. Sadly that's a thing of the past in my home village.
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  #107  
Old 02.09.2011, 16:41
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

There were those two little twin girls abducted by their father, never to be seen again.
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  #108  
Old 02.09.2011, 16:58
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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Isn't it rather odd then how my son's "Swiss" school requested that parents accompany their children to school each morning?

Really? Been a few years now but when my children were in kindergarten the kindergarten teacher was adamant that the children should find the way alone. Because we live 1/2 hour walk away from the school, I used to accompany them until they asked me not to any more but found myself hiding round the corner out of sight of the teachers.
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  #109  
Old 02.09.2011, 17:08
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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You actually sound like you are sucking up to them. As SVP voters, how do they feel about you, as a foreigner, getting the red passport?



Can I recommend the benefits of getting Swiss citizenship coming from the UK? All of the above-mentioned perks but you don't get slapped for tax from the motherland.
It sounds that way to you because you aren't concerned about Switzerland and it's future...Good for the UK then..

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Excuse me. How the bloody hell do you know that us "expats" don't try to understand the culture or try to understand the language? You think that Swiss parents are more intelligent? Try telling that to the child I know with Swiss parents who was left on her own for a weekend whilst her parents went skiing when she was 4 years old! You're talking out of your rear end, which actually makes a lot of sense come to think of it, as all of your posts in this thread are sh*te.
Yeah...okay so you know "a" Swiss parent who's child was left alone at the age of 4 for a weekend...of course that's your version. Who knows what really happened?

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PJ - you have a very general and stereotypical idea of "us expats". I'm married to a Swiss man, speak Swiss, understand Swiss, am surrounded by Swiss, have belonged to a Swiss "club" for 10 years have lived here over 10 years.

And I'm not the only one. Many people on here have taken the time and effort to learn the language, have got to know people "Swiss" and otherwise as individuals not as a "Swiss person or an "Indian person" and see that people are people wherever you go.

I lived in the US for a year - have also lived in Australia for several years and Japan and people are people - once you take the time and effort to get to know them as individuals - wherever you go.

Most people here with a British passport at least, have permanent residence in CH after a few years, plus they can live wherever they want in the European Union. Many people can also live in Australia or the States because of their occupation.

But all that is really beside the point isn't it. This thread is not about who has made more friends in Switzerland (Swiss or otherwise) or who classifies people as "Swiss" and "expat" rather than "friend" and "somebody you've yet to get to know". This thread is about the safety of kids in Switzerland.

Where I live in Basel Land, one of my sons classmates and best friends who he does sleep overs with etc - is the son of a cantonal SVP party member. She is a nice woman, a pretty strong woman and a patriotic woman. She keeps a very close eye on her son, checks on where he is, what he's doing - in no way just "lets him run free" - in other words she acts like any caring sensible parent in any country.

Last year the gemiende where I live decided that rather than paying for more teachers they would send kids aged 11 to PG and Secondary school in the next village (a 5 min walk and 10 min bus ride away). This decision has caused SUCH an uproar with parents who don't want their kids to take that trip and want them to stay at the local schools within walking distance that the parents have actually started a petition.

Now just in case you're interested in the nationality of the parents who started the petition, it wasn't "anxious" British parents or "over protective" American parents - it was the Swiss parents. People I know who are normal parents - same as you get in many countries.

But these examples don't fit into any neat nationality boxes do they? But if you actually live here, a part of the community here - you'll see that's the way it is. Parents are parents wherever you go. There are parents here who will send their 4 year old across a city to walk to school alone - just as there are parents in the town where I grew up in the UK who let their 5 year olds out "to play" until 10 or 11 at night. It happens - sometimes these kids get knocked down on busy roads at night.

Different parenting within the same country - it happens.
Well you sound a bit like a "fairytale" to me. A permanent residence isn't Swiss Citizenship. A resident card can be revoked at any time if you don't "tow the line." I'm not limited to the EU or any place else for that matter. IMHO I have passports to two of the most convenient countries, one out weighing the other to a certain extent. I think the real "Swiss test" begins when you live in Switzerland on your own, and not dependent on your Swiss partner. Yes, Swiss parents have feelings too, but the culture is different and I find Swiss parents more intelligent and not as emotionally ecstatic as many of you here. For example, the reason why the Swiss parents were upset about the longer route to school is because now "they may have to take them!" instead of the children being in walking distance. Oh by the way, you're "generalizing" too much. Many people on here haven't taken the time to learn the language, know Swiss people etc...you can stop your generalizations right there.

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It is such a shame to have this good thread with very good informations being put down and turned into a stupid argument with a Troll.
Which happens to be you..maybe? Actually it's the "expats" on here that ran off with the thread, I just answered them. By the way how's Spain going, and are you still counting your days until you can return to Switzerland?
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  #110  
Old 02.09.2011, 17:09
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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Jews are avaricious and untrustworthy.
I protest.
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No it's not, it's happening every week in the USA.
It's happening every week in Europe, too. And Asia, I can imagine. All over the world, crap is happening to people. I just read about 4 kids being slaughtered back home. Life and people are the same, every where. Grass is greener and all the other craziness, it seems. PJ, people would take you more seriously if you cut out the personal stuff out of your messages. As of know, all I see is trollery.

We have a practical thread on stuff parents have to face here, in their school kids life. Let's not derail even more. Who cares of permits and wheather life is better here or not..Parents of school kids aren't going to waste time with theoretical questions and comparisons, weeding through personal insults and hypothesis on crime rates.
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  #111  
Old 02.09.2011, 17:13
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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www.ygoy.com/index.php/child-abduction-statistics

http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.n...t-good-article

Here are a few statistics for you. Unless there has been a massive increase since this was published in 2009 the US doesn't seem to be quite as dangerous as you made out given the population of the country.
Okay let's see, 260,000 (as far as this report is concerned) are abducted every year, and let's see 800,000 go missing. Yeah, you're right it's not that bad. Actually, let's add 200,000 more children to even out that 800,000 to 1 million still for a population like USA that isn't too bad....NOT...are you a parent?

Last edited by ProsperityJoy; 02.09.2011 at 17:31.
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Old 02.09.2011, 17:17
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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I protest.
It's happening every week in Europe, too. And Asia, I can imagine. All over the world, crap is happening to people. I just read about 4 kids being slaughtered back home. Life and people are the same, every where. Grass is greener and all the other craziness, it seems. PJ, people would take you more seriously if you cut out the personal stuff out of your messages. As of know, all I see is trollery.

We have a practical thread on stuff parents have to face here, in their school kids life. Let's not derail even more. Who cares of permits and wheather life is better here or not..Parents of school kids aren't going to waste time with theoretical questions and comparisons, weeding through personal insults and hypothesis on crime rates.
It doesn't matter if you "take me seriously or not" I know what I write about. The problem is that you guys go on the attack because you don't want to accept the truth. I can care less about what "any of you think" to be honest. Are you a parent by the way. The mind-set here on EF is very, very limited and if someone writes something you don't comprehend then they are automatically "wrong." A joke really...By the way this thread isn't "practical" at all, it's just filled with a bunch of hysteria from lost expats who can't find their way because they don't want to understand the culture of the country. Because of their lack of power...not speaking the language , understanding the Swiss people etc...they make up for it by being overly emotional and instilling fear where they really don't have to if they "opened up their minds."...And you are right, in your imagination it's happening in alarming rates "all" over the world.

Last edited by ProsperityJoy; 02.09.2011 at 17:33.
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  #113  
Old 02.09.2011, 17:23
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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Isn't it rather odd then how my son's "Swiss" school requested that parents accompany their children to school each morning?

Not exactly a warzone, more a sensible piece of advice in ever-changing times. Maybe your "Swiss" friends should bring you a little more up to date.

Alternatively, you could just "look it up."
More than likely you're lying...wouldn't be the first time. It's totally "out of character" for Swiss teachers to even suggest that...totally.
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  #114  
Old 02.09.2011, 17:31
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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It doesn't matter if you "take me seriously or not" I know what I write about.
Who knows, but what matter is that it seem you are antagonizing people for no apparent reason ("Are you, Nil, counting days till you can return to CH"?, "I have better permit, na na nanana" - man, you are quite a caliber ). And railing them up to have a laugh. And that matters.

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The problem is that you guys go on the attack because you don't want to accept the truth.
Nobody is attacking anyone. Why would "what should I do if I receive this letter from my school" be seen as attack?

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Are you a parent by the way.
Why should that be relevant?

If you actually read what people have to say in this thread, you would have the answer to your question. But kicking around, without even reading what people want to share, what worries they have...bah.

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The mind-set here on EF is very, very limited and if someone writes something you don't comprehend then they are automatically "wrong." A joke really...
There has been a debate, to the point of hair splitting, after your contributions- no matter how valid or pointless they were. That actually shows that people do care about our community here. People will take time and explain stuff. If you think EF is very, very limited, why stay here? Trolling is not permitted. Antagonizing neither. Wasting mod's resources does not fly either, since we have just too many routine annoyances to attend so people would have their peace to talk here. Contribute to the peace positively and do not derail this discussion. The view on here from the outside would be valued and respected should it come in a tad different packaging, I am sure you can do it.
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  #115  
Old 02.09.2011, 17:39
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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Who knows, but what matter is that it seem you are antagonizing people for no apparent reason ("Are you, Nil, counting days till you can return to CH"?, "I have better permit, na na nanana" - man, you are quite a caliber ). And railing them up to have a laugh. And that matters.



Nobody is attacking anyone. Why would "what should I do if I receive this letter from my school" be seen as attack?



Why should that be relevant?

If you actually read what people have to say in this thread, you would have the answer to your question. But kicking around, without even reading what people want to share, what worries they have...bah.



There has been a debate, to the point of hair splitting, after your contributions- no matter how valid or pointless they were. That actually shows that people do care about our community here. People will take time and explain stuff. If you think EF is very, very limited, why stay here? Trolling is not permitted. Antagonizing neither. Wasting mod's resources does not fly either, since we have just too many routine annoyances to attend so people would have their peace to talk here. Contribute to the peace positively and do not derail this discussion. The view on here from the outside would be valued and respected should it come in a tad different packaging, I am sure you can do it.
Uhh...yes it is relevant. So I guess you guys can only give it...but you can't take it...I see a bunch of wimps are you? The derailing began when I stated my opinion and someone else "went off." I answered. I'm not the only one you guys do this with, there are a few others. Mostly those who aren't trying to be PC...
Oh...you mean become an individual afraid to speak the truth because you might get a red blob?...sit on it please...My view counts where it matters. I'm satisfied with that...
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  #116  
Old 02.09.2011, 17:52
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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By the way how's Spain going, and are you still counting your days until you can return to Switzerland?
Nope, loving it, the Swiss who moved here too! I guess the world exist outside of CH....
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  #117  
Old 02.09.2011, 17:53
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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Uhh...yes it is relevant. So I guess you guys can only give it...but you can't take it...I see a bunch of wimps are you?
This is not a war. People respect common decency rules of online communication.

I am not going to close a helpful thread because of a troll.
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  #118  
Old 02.09.2011, 17:57
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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Okay let's see, 260,000 (as far as this report is concerned) are abducted every year, and let's see 800,000 go missing. Yeah, you're right it's not that bad. Actually, let's add 200,000 more children to even out that 800,000 to 1 million still for a population like USA that isn't too bad....NOT...are you a parent?
You obviously missed this bit when you were reading.

About 260,000 children are abducted every year in the United States of America. Of these child abduction only about 115 result in very serious consequences, like injury or death.

Now when I was at school 115 out of 3 milliion (population) was statistically speaking not too bad. It's obviously not good for those 115 but the odds of it happening are pretty slim. Most of the abductions are carried out by family or friends and not random strangers on the street.

And I am not from the US so I have no reason to defend them except to refute your ludicrous allegations.

And FYI information I am a parent. Are you?

I was going to ask a serious question related to he original topic but as you've turned this thread in to a serious car crash I think I'll start a new thread.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 02.09.2011 at 18:15.
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  #119  
Old 02.09.2011, 18:08
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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By the way this thread isn't "practical" at all, it's just filled with a bunch of hysteria from lost expats who can't find their way because they don't want to understand the culture of the country. Because of their lack of power...not speaking the language , understanding the Swiss people etc...
Really? A lot of us have lived here for years, speak the language competently, are well integrated, have kids who attend local school, have Swiss friends who we understand, can see the pros and cons of life here objectively, all things considered wouldn't want to be anywhere else ....and still think you spout a lot of tosh.
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  #120  
Old 02.09.2011, 18:52
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Re: Letter from school warning parents about strangers

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Okay let's see, 260,000 (as far as this report is concerned) are abducted every year, and let's see 800,000 go missing. Yeah, you're right it's not that bad. Actually, let's add 200,000 more children to even out that 800,000 to 1 million still for a population like USA that isn't too bad....NOT...are you a parent?
You did read this bit, right?

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The number of children reported missing in the U.S is about 800,000 every year. But this figure can be misleading, as it includes many trivial incidents like overstaying with a parent.
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