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Old 07.09.2011, 09:20
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Re: Separation...

Crikey O'Reilly people!! How can the OP be perceived as selfish and nasty when she clearly has asked how to maintain a good relationship with her ex????

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any advice on how to maintain a civilised relationship with a former spouse?
I think maybe her wording was a little off but nothing of her post suggests to me that she is out to turn her kids against her ex or forbid him from seeing them

The lady is in a foreign country and quite rightly wants to know where she stands. Having gone through a similar thing myself I totally understand why she wants to know all the facts. I didn't want to stop my ex from seeing his daughter but I damn well wanted to be sure of all of the facts to do with guardianship and visitation rights so I didn't inadvertantly do something wrong.

I get that this is a highly emotional subject for many of us but I don't think jumping down the OP's throat is fair or correct. Who are we to judge?
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  #22  
Old 07.09.2011, 10:00
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Re: Separation...

My advice would be to go and see the child protection agency. (protection de la jeunesse in Geneva) They have seen it all before and always put the children first. They will probably advise you to be allocated a "tuteur" which is a kind of councillor that oversees your decisions, it can include financial.
Divorce is not going to happen becuase youre not married but both parents will feel less aggrieved with a tuteur overseeing all the decisions.
This will ease the process and answer all of your specific questions and they are much more qualified to answer them than this forum.
I wish you good luck.
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Old 07.09.2011, 10:08
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Re: Separation...

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Hell hath no fury....

..like a banana sandwich
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Old 07.09.2011, 10:51
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Re: Separation...

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I am currently in the process of separating from my long-term partner after 18 years together, 3 kids, and a jointly-owned house. Neither of us is Swiss although we have been living here for 7 years. He has left the family home and we have verbally agreed that I will continue to live here with the kids, to cause as little disruption to them as possible. He has also verbally agreed to provide a fixed amount of maintenance for the kids each month. We both have good jobs and make a similar amount of money.
As he already has a new girlfriend, I'm starting to think about the future and issues such as can he force me to sell the house if he wants his money out to start a new home and a new family? Is there anything obliging him to pay maintenance towards the kids? Does he have any visiting rights on the kids or can I decide when and where he sees them? Do I need to take a lawyer to get any of these things sorted out, or is that not relevant given we were never married?

Apart from the all of these practicalities and financial worries, any advice on how to maintain a civilised relationship with a former spouse? Due to the circumstances of our separation, all I feel towards him now is anger and resentment – but I know that somehow I’m going to have to get past that and put aside all of these negative thoughts if we are going to manage joint parenting of our kids.

Would appreciate any advice or any thoughts from anyone who has already been in this situation.
hmm...since your relationship is amicable with the ex, tell him (nicely!) that you would like, for everyone's peace of mind - especially for the kids financial and mental stability that whatever you've discussed with regards to the housing and maintenance be in writing in the presence of a lawyer, to avoid future disputes etc etc.

I am not sure if Swiss law recognises such agreements between unmarried partners so a lawyer is the best person you should consult now.

I agree with the rest of the posters that access to the children shouldnt be restricted. Its not for you to decide. Like BHBT said, he is their father and should have the right to see them any time they want. That restricted access malarkey is really no good for the kids and should only be resorted to if both parties cant stand talking to each other and need a lawyer to fight that out for them.

Good luck, sorry to hear about the relationship breakdown. I hope you get everything sorted soon.
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Old 07.09.2011, 11:28
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Re: Separation...

people should remember there are 2 sides to every story, a man doesn't just walk away from him life, his kids, his house etc for no reason at all

Op going all legal on him, with no justification, just comes across as spiteful, dictating when and where he can see his own children is totally out of order, want your kids to hate you? your going the right way about it.

Unless he starts being a dick of course.

remember every action has a reaction.
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Old 07.09.2011, 11:31
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Re: Separation...

See a lawyer. He'll offer you the best legal and, hopefully, sound advice for you and your family.

Keep your head high, your thoughts towards the present and future but don't forget to let yourself grieve. Going through the separation process takes time, both emotionally and legally. I've given myself a time limit of two years to get through my separation and find out who I am again. The first year was hard but the second is getting easier, less emotional and I'm enjoying myself more.

Hope everyone stays amicable and little energy is wasted through power struggles or emotional battles.

Good luck.
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Old 07.09.2011, 12:45
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Re: Separation...

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Crikey O'Reilly people!! How can the OP be perceived as selfish and nasty when she clearly has asked how to maintain a good relationship with her ex????



I think maybe her wording was a little off but nothing of her post suggests to me that she is out to turn her kids against her ex or forbid him from seeing them

The lady is in a foreign country and quite rightly wants to know where she stands. Having gone through a similar thing myself I totally understand why she wants to know all the facts. I didn't want to stop my ex from seeing his daughter but I damn well wanted to be sure of all of the facts to do with guardianship and visitation rights so I didn't inadvertantly do something wrong.

I get that this is a highly emotional subject for many of us but I don't think jumping down the OP's throat is fair or correct. Who are we to judge?
I have to agree with mimi1981. The OP has described her situation very objectively given her circumstances. I think her questions, perhaps lacking diplomacy, are still reasonably prudent and fair, and IMHO asked with good intention, not bad. You don't need to walk an inch to give someone the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 07.09.2011, 12:55
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Re: Separation...

I think it is not fair to jump at her throat like many did. I shared my experience as a chil from a nasty divorce. I just hope that will avoid others to go the same way my parents took in their way to deal with their problems ang how they put it on us, my brother and I.

It left us with a lot of anger, hate and resentments.
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  #29  
Old 07.09.2011, 13:08
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Re: Separation...

A general comment not restricted to this thread.

If you post a scenario on a forum you are asking for comment in public. The comments are usually based on the information presented.

If you want filtered information that simply endorses your view then a general public forum is not the place for it. However if you really do want a variety of inputs, then you usually get them.

You will get people that are speculating - maybe incorrectly; there will be people that see through your real agenda even though you may not have written it; there are people that take what you write at face value; there are people that will attempt to fill in gaps.

Not all the content of the thread will be directly about you, and may include side discussions about issues arising or not even mentioned...

The point is, you cannot control the discussion and must accept that different people reading the thread may get value from it in different ways.

If an OP is not able to discriminate or take value from the responses the perhaps they should not post their questions in such a public place. There are plenty of divorce support or women's forums where the audience will give a more filtered response.

AYB

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but I don't think jumping down the OP's throat is fair or correct. Who are we to judge?
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Old 07.09.2011, 13:14
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Re: Separation...

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The point is, you cannot control the discussion and must accept that different people reading the thread may get value from it in different ways.


AYB
True. But this is why EF has gone significantly down the tubes. It has become more of a judgement forum than a support forum, which is why there is such a high turnover of active members here. Who needs enemies when you can post on EF?
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  #31  
Old 07.09.2011, 13:20
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Re: Separation...

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Hell hath no fury....
<For the nerds out there>
.....like a well timed grenade


Separation isn't like a divorce - and no matter how pleasent you hope it will be now - it probably won't.

Been there - got the t-shirt. Life goes on.

Welfare of the children first - then the finances.
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  #32  
Old 07.09.2011, 13:27
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Re: Separation...

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My sympathies to you, OP.
My sympathies to the OP, her ex, and more importantly, to their three kids.

OP: I hope you will find some of the responses food for thought and you will chew on it before you act. All the best.

p.s. restricting this thread to only those who have experienced this sort of thing was silly; these matters, ll of us can relate to at some level; others can speak with more objectivity than someone who's experienced it themselves.
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  #33  
Old 07.09.2011, 13:55
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Re: Separation...

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I am currently in the process of separating from my long-term partner after 18 years together, 3 kids, and a jointly-owned house. Neither of us is Swiss although we have been living here for 7 years. He has left the family home and we have verbally agreed that I will continue to live here with the kids, to cause as little disruption to them as possible. He has also verbally agreed to provide a fixed amount of maintenance for the kids each month. We both have good jobs and make a similar amount of money.
As he already has a new girlfriend, I'm starting to think about the future and issues such as can he force me to sell the house if he wants his money out to start a new home and a new family? Is there anything obliging him to pay maintenance towards the kids? Does he have any visiting rights on the kids or can I decide when and where he sees them? Do I need to take a lawyer to get any of these things sorted out, or is that not relevant given we were never married?

Apart from the all of these practicalities and financial worries, any advice on how to maintain a civilised relationship with a former spouse? Due to the circumstances of our separation, all I feel towards him now is anger and resentment – but I know that somehow I’m going to have to get past that and put aside all of these negative thoughts if we are going to manage joint parenting of our kids.

Would appreciate any advice or any thoughts from anyone who has already been in this situation.
Try to keep lawyers at arm's length in as much as possible. Remember the old saying: biggest winners of divorce are lawyers and biggest losers are kids. I can confirm the former as I paid about 20K GBP to useless lawyers who tried their best to cover up the human side of things, and things moved my way only when I spoke in court room myself.
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  #34  
Old 07.09.2011, 13:57
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Re: Separation...

Well ... I think the OP was very brave to bare her soul here on this forum ... and all the varied replies give different angles for her to consider.

Ja, when you don`t have close friends to confide in .... then these forums serve a very good purpose. To stew silently over ones massive problems can drive one crazy ..... to be able to share them, even with us strangers, can help to filter the mind.

Marriage/partnership ... with joint children ... is much like any "business" venture. So at its dissolution a lawyer is needed to assure an even distribution of assets..... simply because lurking behind every good intention is that thing called "greed" .. that WILL surface ..... when the dust of seperation has settled.
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  #35  
Old 07.09.2011, 13:59
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Re: Separation...

Support forum ? Since when has it been a support forum ?

Support people that want to milk RAV; support people that want to act unethically toward a potential employer ? Support people that want you to validate their unreasonable behaviour ?

There is plenty of support on offer as well as discussion and debate and even arguement and dispute. That is a Good Thing.

I'm sure that the founder intended it to encompass all views and not just those that patronise and agree. The Complaints Corner is a good example.

Regarding turnover of active members, this happens a lot with any online readership and to infer that it is due to <pet theory> is flawed.

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True. But this is why EF has gone significantly down the tubes. It has become more of a judgement forum than a support forum, which is why there is such a high turnover of active members here. Who needs enemies when you can post on EF?
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  #36  
Old 07.09.2011, 14:07
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Re: Separation...

I would recommend meeting with your ex-partner and a mediator. It is in a lawyer's self-interest for things to get messy, complicated, and take a long time, and can often make things worse.

Try to separate the hurt/anger from your kids' needs. Seek some support so you do have an appropriate place to vent, grieve and heal, that place is never in front of your children.

Take the high road and treat your ex with generousity and respect, as a model to your children, regardless of what he may (or may not) deserve.

Congratulations on already making agreements during a difficult time, many people don't find that success.

Good luck with the transition.
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  #37  
Old 07.09.2011, 14:10
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Re: Separation...

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True. But this is why EF has gone significantly down the tubes. It has become more of a judgement forum than a support forum, which is why there is such a high turnover of active members here. Who needs enemies when you can post on EF?
I agree that it has become quite judgmental here and when you post a "How can I do x?" question, 70% of the answers will be "You should do y instead"

To be fair to AYB though, I think that his point is valid that when you throw out such a question on a totally public forum, you will get the same kind of responses that you'd get if you shouted the same question to a football crowd. Some abuse, some sympathy, some good advice, some cr@p. If you choose the path, you need to be strong enough to filter the responses to get what you want.

Having said that, I think the OP was pretty balanced in the responses....it was more that the crowd were bickering I think!
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  #38  
Old 07.09.2011, 14:33
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Re: Separation...

Here's a classic example of how it used to be:

Another sad separation & divorce thread

And not to blow my own trumpet but this is also another example of how it used to be:

Becoming a single mum in Switzerland

Can you see the difference?
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Old 07.09.2011, 14:41
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Re: Separation...

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Here's a classic example of how it used to be:

Another sad separation & divorce thread

And not to blow my own trumpet but this is also another example of how it used to be:

Becoming a single mum in Switzerland

Can you see the difference?

to be fair those threads aren't asking for advise about stopping one parent seeing the kids, or screwing over the partner on money etc

if the op had phrased the questions more tactfully then the replies would have been more sympathetic.

lets face it we all know men who have been totally screwed over by there ex
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Old 07.09.2011, 14:45
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Re: Separation...

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Here's a classic example of how it used to be:

Another sad separation & divorce thread

And not to blow my own trumpet but this is also another example of how it used to be:

Becoming a single mum in Switzerland

Can you see the difference?
Yes, of course they are different, but I'm not sure we can read too much into it.

I think that this one hit a nerve with a couple of people who have obviously been burned with fathers access rights before....its impossible to separate the advice and feedback that people give with the experiences that have shaped them, its made them who they are.

And of course I agree that it shouldn't turn into a bearpit, but at the same time, if the forum was the same people saying the same things for five years, it would stagnate pretty quickly.

I'm not defending jumping down somebody's throat when we have a different view, but equally it doesn't feel like this thread represents anything beyond a difference of opinion about wording and the way of looking at the world
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