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  #41  
Old 07.09.2011, 13:45
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Re: Separation...

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to be fair those threads aren't asking for advise about stopping one parent seeing the kids, or screwing over the partner on money etc

if the op had phrased the questions more tactfully then the replies would have been more sympathetic.

lets face it we all know men who have been totally screwed over by there ex
True and a good point. I suppose I just wanted to show the community spirit that I see in those two threads which seems to have been lost these days.
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  #42  
Old 07.09.2011, 15:40
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Re: Separation...

I think someone simply said a few strong words. If people had just let it pass and focused on helping the OP in their own way, this thread wouldn't have derailed so much. But no, lot of people had to come trot trot trot on their high vehicles and derail the thread

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  #43  
Old 07.09.2011, 15:55
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Re: Separation...

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I think someone simply said a few strong words. If people had just let it pass and focused on helping the OP in their own way, this thread wouldn't have derailed so much. But no, lot of people had to come trot trot trot on their high vehicles and derail the thread
I guess I'll just trot trot trot on then


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  #44  
Old 07.09.2011, 23:07
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Re: Separation...

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to be fair those threads aren't asking for advise about stopping one parent seeing the kids, or screwing over the partner on money etc

if the op had phrased the questions more tactfully then the replies would have been more sympathetic.

lets face it we all know men who have been totally screwed over by there ex
I wouldn't be too sure that the replies would have been different.

Sure,this is an emotional topic, and the circumstances are different in every case. But it is quite clear that the OP did not initiate the break-up, and for anyone who has been in that position, feeling of despair and powerlessness are deep. The OP simply asked a few questions to find out where she stands, and in accordance with instinct, seek to re-assert some balance of power in the decision making process, especially when it comes to the kids. Anyone who says they wouldn't do the same is lying.

Sure, people can view support requests in either the best light or the worst light, how one does is a reflection on one's self, not on the OP.

Sure, the OP may be intending to screw her partner over. But perhaps a little more inquisitiveness would be prudent before launching into accusations.

For example: What if someone came on the forum and said a friend had raped them, and asked for advice. Just because I know someone who has been falsely accused of rape (and I do), should I call that person a sl*t and a wh0re? (or fagg0t if it were a man..that does happen).
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  #45  
Old 07.09.2011, 23:22
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Re: Separation...

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I'm sure that the founder intended it to encompass all views and not just those that patronise and agree. The Complaints Corner is a good example.


AYB
I was a close friend of the founder, and I can tell you that you are partially right. Yes, he wanted all views encompassed, but based on fact or experience, not assumptions. And he certainly didn't tolerate personal attacks such as post #5 in it's original form.

And yes, he viewed it as a support forum, which is was prior to his departure.
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  #46  
Old 07.09.2011, 23:26
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Re: Separation...

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I was a close friend of the founder, and I can tell you that you are partially right. Yes, he wanted all views encompassed, but based on fact or experience, not assumptions. And he certainly didn't tolerate personal attacks such as post #5 in it's original form.

And yes, he viewed it as a support forum, which is was prior to his departure.
It's not personal. I do not know the OP.

Based on personal experience, and what the OP said, the statement about her deciding whether or when the Father sees the kids had to be checked.

Anybody asking that question was asking for that reply. If it shocked her , or anyone else, then good, because there are kids involved here. Time to rattle those sensitivities. Time to see the other side of the coin.
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  #47  
Old 07.09.2011, 23:38
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Re: Separation...

Assuming the info OP gave us is right, yes the father has the same rights but also obligations and he should have known that either cheating or getting in a new relationship right after ending one would not set the tone for an amicable separation.......OP's feelings are justified, let's hope she doesn't act on them.
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  #48  
Old 07.09.2011, 23:39
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Re: Separation...

We've been around the block long enough to know how these threads evolve and its often not in the way th OP would like. If you want a real exploration of the issues then you need to hear both sides including some extremes.

It all comes out and often the facts and motivations revealed bear little resemblance to what you euphemistically refer to as a "support request".

While I agree the post to which you refer was shooting from the hip, I think with a bit more explanation it was acceptable comment.

Sometimes, as vintage poster Nastasha used to say "Sometimes you have to harden the f*** up and take reality check".

It is easy to identify controversial topics and it is easy to gather the thanks by taking the most socially-acceptable line, but it makes for a dull discussion and little real insight.

AYB


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Sure, people can view support requests in either the best light or the worst light, how one does is a reflection on one's self, not on the OP.

Sure, the OP may be intending to screw her partner over. But perhaps a little more inquisitiveness would be prudent before launching into accusations.

For example: What if someone came on the forum and said a friend had raped them, and asked for advice. Just because I know someone who has been falsely accused of rape (and I do), should I call that person a sl*t and a wh0re? (or fagg0t if it were a man..that does happen).
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  #49  
Old 07.09.2011, 23:56
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Re: Separation...

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I was a close friend of the founder, and I can tell you that you are partially right. Yes, he wanted all views encompassed, but based on fact or experience, not assumptions. And he certainly didn't tolerate personal attacks such as post #5 in it's original form.

And yes, he viewed it as a support forum, which is was prior to his departure.
I read the opening post again, and to me, her considering restricting access to their dad is fact; the bit about the guy initiating the breakup is assumption/speculation.

Correct me if I am wrong.

p.s. showing the other side of the coin in no way undermines the supporting, benevolent role of EF. Remember, 3 kids happiness vs emotions of an upset/angry woman... so support/genuine concern for people is still there buddy.

Last edited by Niranjan; 08.09.2011 at 00:30. Reason: Amended in light of Nicol's brilliant insight :)
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  #50  
Old 08.09.2011, 00:18
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Re: Separation...

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I read the opening post again, and to me, her considering using kids as a tool to hurt the father is fact; the bit about the guy initiating the breakup is assumption/speculation.

Correct me if I am wrong.
What a load of tosh.

She does not state that she is considering using the children as tools to hurt their father. She merely enquires as to what the legal situation is surrounding parental visiting rights in the case of non married partners.

Who cares who initiated the break-up?? They are breaking up. End of.
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  #51  
Old 08.09.2011, 00:28
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Re: Separation...

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But it is quite clear that the OP did not initiate the break-up
Sorry, it is still not clear me (maybe I am just sleepy and dull ) hopefully someone bright will clarify this by the time I wake up tomorrow.
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  #52  
Old 08.09.2011, 00:44
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Re: Separation...

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I read the opening post again, and to me, her considering using kids as a tool to hurt the father is fact.
If this was the only question she asked, I'd agree with you, but taken in context of subsequent questions (i.e. how to stay amicable with her now ex)...the two would be mutually exclusive. I give the OP the benefit of the doubt she is still still caught in a whirpool of emotion brought on my circumstance and has typed the post as such. She is considering everything, and I would say the welfare of her children is paramount.She even concedes she has to get past her emotions and manage joint parenting. Or am I imagining that sentence?

In the original post, the OP has been as objective as I can imagine anyone to be in her situation, and is simply echoeing her own devils advocacy on EF...foolishly in the presence of some bitter individuals.

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the bit about the guy initiating the breakup is assumption/speculation.
I'll concede that, but as NS points out, it is rather irrelevant (to our discussion, not the OP).

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p.s. showing the other side of the coin in no way undermines the supporting, benevolent role of EF. Remember, 3 kids happiness vs emotions of an upset/angry woman... so support/genuine concern for people is still there buddy.
showing the other side of the coin is offering opinion...but some of the first replies (post 5 and 7 in particular) reflect a more deep-seated bitterness that they hypocrytically accuse the OP of.
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Last edited by litespeed; 08.09.2011 at 01:16.
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  #53  
Old 08.09.2011, 00:57
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Re: Separation...

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Sometimes, as vintage poster Nastasha used to say "Sometimes you have to harden the f*** up and take reality check".

It is easy to identify controversial topics and it is easy to gather the thanks by taking the most socially-acceptable line, but it makes for a dull discussion and little real insight.

AYB
So what your saying is, we can't assist the OP with dull, socially -acceptable discussion? My God have I been barking up the wrong tree all these years.

And please tell me what insight we gain from your post #7? I'm not graspng how questions along the lines of "and have you stopped hitting your wife yet? " offer anything other than provocation.
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  #54  
Old 08.09.2011, 01:50
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Re: Separation...

Well, I'll skip the pontificating and try to answer, in a "no-blame" sort of way, some of the questions that were asked....

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can he force me to sell the house if he wants his money out to start a new home and a new family?
Without a legally-binding agreement to the contrary, very probably yes.

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Is there anything obliging him to pay maintenance towards the kids?
Yes, there is; but because you were not married and are working, he is not obliged to maintain you.

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Does he have any visiting rights on the kids or can I decide when and where he sees them?
Yes, he has significant rights of access; no, you cannot just pick and choose.

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Do I need to take a lawyer to get any of these things sorted out, or is that not relevant given we were never married?
That would be highly sensible in the circumstances you describe - not being married does not affect the need to resolve things for the benefit of the children. A lawyer will be able to instruct you in your rights and responsibilities, as well as your ex's rights and responsibilities, even if you are both committed to an amicable resolution.

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any advice on how to maintain a civilised relationship with a former spouse? Due to the circumstances of our separation, all I feel towards him now is anger and resentment – but I know that somehow I’m going to have to get past that and put aside all of these negative thoughts if we are going to manage joint parenting of our kids.
Your anger and resentment may be fully justified in the circumstances; nevertheless, you will have to learn to cap them, and to learn to act in the best interests of your children. This may seem an impossible task right now, but like that journey of a thousand miles, it all starts out a step at a time. Along the way, you also have to take steps to accept that what is is and to move on with your own life.

Best wishes
WJ
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Old 08.09.2011, 06:59
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Re: Separation...

Whether or not you can assist with your middle-of-the-road predictable responses is neither here nor there. What you are I discussing is the importance or value of more extreme posts

I don't really care whether you embrace them or a tree, but in my view they represent a vital part of any open discussion.

On the subject of my post Nr.7: it is a naked statement of the information presented. Do you have a problem with that ? If so then I question even your objectivity.

If you really want to continue this discussion, a separate thread might be appropriate.

AYB

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So what your saying is, we can't assist the OP with dull, socially -acceptable discussion? My God have I been barking up the wrong tree all these years.

And please tell me what insight we gain from your post #7? I'm not graspng how questions along the lines of "and have you stopped hitting your wife yet? " offer anything other than provocation.
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  #56  
Old 08.09.2011, 07:52
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Re: Separation...

In my view, posts 5 and 7 were very much on topic, well within the scope of an open discussion. The subsequent posts that went at 5's jugular or went on to pontificate about EF's role, IMO, were off-topic, and without questioning their value, deserve a separate thread.

hey, I wasn't even active or that much interested in this thread before those groans and PMs .

Objectivity?
Tell me, which one of you is the OP using an alternate id
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  #57  
Old 08.09.2011, 08:13
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Re: Separation...

There's a lot of suppressed anger seeping into this thread.
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  #58  
Old 08.09.2011, 08:21
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Re: Separation...

This is classic "net vs real life" manners difference.

If I come on here, where I'm comfortable, and people know how I tick and I posted "I woke up this morning with feathers glued to my bllx" - I would expect and want some fairly robust feedback. Same if I said....."shall I take a CHF600 000 job, or stick with my CHF500 000 one?"....I wouldn't do it, because I know the reaction and I am sensitive to how others might perceive it.

But in this case, this was a new poster in a tough situation. You think that in this situation, writing on EF was her first thought? Or maybe that shows a level of desperation.

However, think of it like this...imagine that somebody in work comes up to you, somebody you don't know well, but you have said hi to a couple of times and said "I don't know where to turn....I need to talk to somebody and you seem like a nice girl/guy, people tell me that you are smart, can we grab a coffee?".....and you do and she says "I'm breaking up with my husband, I have so many questions buzzing round in my head like x, y and z"....

Nobody would EVER pick out one and say "You evil bitch!! I can't believe that you are thinking about stopping the kids from seeing their dad!". It just wouldn't happen. Every single one of us would listen, sympathise, nod and give advice....some from our experience, some from knowledge. And if they suggest something which we think is wrong or ill advised, we'd say it in a way something like "You might want to rethink that a bit" or "Have you considered"....not "WHAT THE F*** ARE YOU THINKING??"

I think that the reaction of some people here (LS, NS, mimi etc) is saying that they think that EF should be more like that. Not giving glib vanilla advice, but realising that we are talking to real people and we should realise that they have real people sensitivities. It is also MUCH harder to receive written criticism, than verbal.

Some of you guys will already be writing "Well, its a public forum so you pays your money, you takes your chance..." and that's right too. But you are also in public, although dangerously hidden behind the mask of net anonymity. Maybe a test to use is - when you are deciding whether to press submit - to think "If this woman was sitting next to me....would I say to her face what I have written?" If you aren't sure.....maybe tone it down.

Last edited by Caviarchips; 08.09.2011 at 08:32.
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  #59  
Old 08.09.2011, 09:44
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Re: Separation...

Still going on??

Seriously guys, how have the past page or two of posts been helping the OP?

I see where both sides are coming from. Litespeed is right about some posts being nasty but when you put something on the internet, expect people to misread or bring in their own agenda in their responses too.

Yes, some of us should have clarified before jumping down her throat before considering that her post might just be the product of a very hurt and confused woman. But this wouldnt be EF, or the internet, if everyone was so nice/ learn to bite their tongues (fingers!)/trot in on their high horses. And if I remember correctly, when I joined EF 3-4 years ago wasnt that much of a friendlier place either. Newbies received the baptism of fire by a certain few if questions they posted were considered silly. Nothing's changed really but that doesnt mean that I am not f***king sick of the seeing some familiar faces who just need to argue for the sake of arguing. You know who you are - STFU. You've made your point.

Unless you have concrete advice about her next steps, besides seeing a lawyer, keep your debates out of this. Alternatively, there have been millions of threads moaning about the EF being a sandpit already. Go start another.
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Last edited by summerrain; 08.09.2011 at 09:58.
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Old 08.09.2011, 09:55
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Re: Separation...

I think the OP might be loooong gone... Only done one post so far.
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