Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06.09.2011, 22:17
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 1 Post
Jumi2 has earned some respectJumi2 has earned some respect
Separation...

I am currently in the process of separating from my long-term partner after 18 years together, 3 kids, and a jointly-owned house. Neither of us is Swiss although we have been living here for 7 years. He has left the family home and we have verbally agreed that I will continue to live here with the kids, to cause as little disruption to them as possible. He has also verbally agreed to provide a fixed amount of maintenance for the kids each month. We both have good jobs and make a similar amount of money.
As he already has a new girlfriend, I'm starting to think about the future and issues such as can he force me to sell the house if he wants his money out to start a new home and a new family? Is there anything obliging him to pay maintenance towards the kids? Does he have any visiting rights on the kids or can I decide when and where he sees them? Do I need to take a lawyer to get any of these things sorted out, or is that not relevant given we were never married?

Apart from the all of these practicalities and financial worries, any advice on how to maintain a civilised relationship with a former spouse? Due to the circumstances of our separation, all I feel towards him now is anger and resentment – but I know that somehow I’m going to have to get past that and put aside all of these negative thoughts if we are going to manage joint parenting of our kids.

Would appreciate any advice or any thoughts from anyone who has already been in this situation.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank Jumi2 for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 06.09.2011, 22:24
Longbyt's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,105
Groaned at 57 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 12,980 Times in 4,732 Posts
Longbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Separation...

No personal experience on the subject, fortunately, but some of the Swiss Law on the subject is to be found here.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06.09.2011, 22:28
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Separation...

I can not help you about your questions.

I just want to wish you best of luck in rebuilding your life. I am a child of a very very dirty dicorce and my only concerns are about your kids. Please, never badmouth their dad. No matter the reasons you are not together anymore, no matter how much he may or may not hurt you, etc.

Believe me, it is nothing worse than having both parents fighting in front of their kids, bathmouthing the other parents and brainwashing them.

Your kids should never feel your anger toward each other. One day, they might learn the truth about the seperation but they don't have to.

And let assume the dad doesn't have the same rights as someone you could have been married to in front of the law, it is bullshit. It is their dad and they should be able to see him as often as they wish. That should not be your decision. If he was a very bad father (or mother in the reverse) we could understand that you would want to seek the advise of a judge.

Kids need their father as much as their mother. And they should never be seperated from one of the other. Sadly, when a relationship breaks, the kids gets to see the parent only on w-ends or every second w-ends, etc.

Let them see their dad as often as they want.

Good luck with everything.
Reply With Quote
The following 18 users would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 06.09.2011, 22:32
Ittigen
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Separation...

The Swiss legal system on divorce is non confrontational, and usually everything is agreed before you get to court.
I think it is very fair to all parties, both parents and children.

If you are both earning well, you are the lucky ones, as paying for 2 flats on one wage is usually impossible.

It would be best for both of you if you find a lawyer and visit her soon. You can then allay your fears.

Sorry, I just noticed you aren't married.

Last edited by Ittigen; 06.09.2011 at 23:44.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06.09.2011, 23:18
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,540
Groaned at 204 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Separation...

Quote:
View Post
Does he have any visiting rights on the kids or can I decide when and where he sees them?
[That appears to be] Nasty, spiteful and selfish.

Last edited by Upthehatters2008; 06.09.2011 at 23:55. Reason: Toned it down.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank Upthehatters2008 for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 06.09.2011, 23:36
BHBT's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: was Züri
Posts: 947
Groaned at 19 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 901 Times in 415 Posts
BHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Separation...

Dear jumi2,
I realise you're angry but if you are truly wanting the best joint parenting decisions for the children, then it's unfair of you to think you can dictate when and where your ex can see them. Please don't let your bitterness turn into using the kids as a weapon against him. They won't thank you for it, now or later, and it's unfair. He is their dad, after all.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank BHBT for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 06.09.2011, 23:38
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 199
Groaned at 8 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 219 Times in 81 Posts
AhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputation
Re: Separation...

If you want "oh you poor thing" advice then I am sure you will get it from some. However based on what you have written I see:
you get the house,
you get the kids
you get money from him
you have a good job
you want to manipulate the situation in terms of his resources to start a new family and also access to his kids

So what was the question ?

AYB
.


Quote:
View Post
I am currently in the process of separating from my long-term partner after 18 years together, 3 kids, and a jointly-owned house. Neither of us is Swiss although we have been living here for 7 years. He has left the family home and we have verbally agreed that I will continue to live here with the kids, to cause as little disruption to them as possible. He has also verbally agreed to provide a fixed amount of maintenance for the kids each month. We both have good jobs and make a similar amount of money.
As he already has a new girlfriend, I'm starting to think about the future and issues such as can he force me to sell the house if he wants his money out to start a new home and a new family? Is there anything obliging him to pay maintenance towards the kids? Does he have any visiting rights on the kids or can I decide when and where he sees them? Do I need to take a lawyer to get any of these things sorted out, or is that not relevant given we were never married?

Apart from the all of these practicalities and financial worries, any advice on how to maintain a civilised relationship with a former spouse? Due to the circumstances of our separation, all I feel towards him now is anger and resentment – but I know that somehow I’m going to have to get past that and put aside all of these negative thoughts if we are going to manage joint parenting of our kids.

Would appreciate any advice or any thoughts from anyone who has already been in this situation.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank AhYesBut for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 06.09.2011, 23:42
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wettingen
Posts: 143
Groaned at 32 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 161 Times in 61 Posts
Mitziem has become a little unpopular
Re: Separation...

Yeah, just kick and stomp her a bit further down than she already is. I'm sure it's highly appreciated. That's what is "Nasty, spiteful and selfish".

Until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoe, don't be so quick to judge.

OP, not sure of the answers, but all the best to you, and all involved.

Quote:
View Post
Nasty, spiteful and selfish.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Mitziem for this useful post:
The following 7 users groan at Mitziem for this post:
  #9  
Old 06.09.2011, 23:44
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,540
Groaned at 204 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Separation...

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, just kick and stomp her a bit further down than she already is. I'm sure it's highly appreciated. That's what is "Nasty, spiteful and selfish".

Until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoe, don't be so quick to judge.

OP, not sure of the answers, but all the best to you, and all involved.
I have long been a victim of nasty selfish and spiteful.
A wake up call now for the sake of the kids if you don't mind.

Do you think there are reasons based on the OP that justify that attitude towards contact ?
I'd love to hear your reasoning...
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Upthehatters2008 for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 06.09.2011, 23:44
Karl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 2,003
Groaned at 192 Times in 87 Posts
Thanked 2,939 Times in 958 Posts
Karl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Separation...

Hell hath no fury....
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06.09.2011, 23:46
NSchulzi's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 2,422
Groaned at 52 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,523 Times in 1,215 Posts
NSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Separation...

Quote:
View Post
Nasty, spiteful and selfish.
I think you are being unduly harsh. The OP may be asking for purely practical reasons, given that it would appear that she works, and we have no idea what her private set-up is.

She came to the forum to ask for practical advice and support in what must be a very difficult and upsetting time for her. My guess is that she did not come to be openly criticised
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank NSchulzi for this useful post:
This user groans at NSchulzi for this post:
  #12  
Old 06.09.2011, 23:47
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich t
Posts: 6,353
Groaned at 42 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 6,448 Times in 2,964 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Separation...

My only advice is to stay as civil as possible, be very careful about what you send/recieve in writing, and make sure your joint asset (house) is protected.

At this point in time, there may be physically nothing stopping either side 'taking the money and running'...

In Australia, if you phone the bank and mention separation/divorce, the first thing they will do is cancel the redraw facility on the mortgage and block individual access to the assets.

There's a very tricky separation between 'His/Hers/Ours/The kids'.

Legal advice, as soon as possible, is very recommended. I've not met anyone yet with children and a mortgage or house, who didn't need it...the sooner the better...it will take 2 or more years to sort everything out to their 'natural' conclusion, and probably a lot more anger/bitterness/nastiness and worry.

As foreigners, you might have the option of separating assets according to Swiss law or that of your home country - and there is an enormous difference from country to country when it comes to recognition of de-facto relationships, especially where children are concerned. Legal advice for both countries may be necessary, I cannot see how you can sort out the separation of assets and the rights of the children without it - sooner or later you will hit a hurdle (moving children out of the country would be one) where your legal status will become very important.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank swisspea for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 06.09.2011, 23:50
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,540
Groaned at 204 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Separation...

Quote:
View Post
I think you are being unduly harsh. The OP may be asking for purely practical reasons, given that it would appear that she works, and we have no idea what her private set-up is.

She came to the forum to ask for practical advice and support in what must be a very difficult and upsetting time for her. My guess is that she did not come to be openly criticised
The question itself revealed a lot about her thinking, she could have posed many other options but chose what she was thinking. That kind of attitude is exactly what I called it and the OP should take a long hard think about what is best for her children, as opposed to using them as weapons.

Sure, her man has run off into the arms of another woman, that's sad, but best she come to terms with the facts and realities about what is best for her children before she stews in dark thought about how she can use the children to get back at him. Mother knows best ? Apparently not in this case.


Makes my blood boil.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Upthehatters2008 for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 06.09.2011, 23:52
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,519
Groaned at 364 Times in 251 Posts
Thanked 12,723 Times in 4,340 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Separation...

Quote:
View Post
Apart from the all of these practicalities and financial worries, any advice on how to maintain a civilised relationship with a former spouse? Due to the circumstances of our separation, all I feel towards him now is anger and resentment – but I know that somehow I’m going to have to get past that and put aside all of these negative thoughts if we are going to manage joint parenting of our kids.

Would appreciate any advice or any thoughts from anyone who has already been in this situation.
It really will depend on the circumstances. Maybe you will find someone too and you'll find the sting of the 'other woman' less painful. Maybe also that will actually make the relationship with your former partner worse.

Number 1: you are parents and you have 3 children who will be even more confused about all this than you are. Time is a great healer: I remember someone told me it would be at least 2 years before life returned to normal. It was more like 10 years - but it did eventually get better, and better than it ever was before...
__________________
**Triple vaxxed with Moderna plus 2021/22 season flu jab.**
Fed up of smoking? 10 tips to quit in 10 days
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 06.09.2011, 23:54
Mica's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 933
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1,194 Times in 530 Posts
Mica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Separation...

To Do List:
- make copies of all relevant (financial) documents, i.e. bank accounts, insurance policies, pension certificates, third pillar accounts, etc. and keep them at your work place. Should there be discussions regarding financial issues this assures that you have the necessary documents. I've seen cases, where the husband took care of all financial things, and the wive had no idea what accounts and insurance there were.
- get an advice book on divorce (in German: http://www.beobachter.ch/buchshop/zu...ukt/scheidung/ there should be an equivalent in French). This will give you an idea of what issues need to be settled; allow you to sketch what you would want achieve; and also put you into a better position to ask your lawyer questions.
- get a lawyer you trust (better earlier than later). I suggest asking around, and maybe making an appointment with 2 or 3 different lawyers until you find one that is a good fit (clarify beforehand whether lawyer will charge for the first meeting). A shared lawyer might work out in simple circumstances but as soon as children are involved I would suggest each spouse having they own lawyer.
- don't wait too long to settle the matters. At the moment your still-husband sounds reasonable, but once his new girlfriend starts making demands on his income, he might not be as forthcoming with maintenance payments to the kids.
- last but not least put the interests of the children first, keep matters civil, and remain reasonable
__________________
Liability for any statements hereinabove excluded! - Need a Swiss lawyer PM me.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Mica for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 06.09.2011, 23:55
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 3,979
Groaned at 99 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Separation...

Quote:
View Post
all I feel towards him now is anger and resentment
Its clear from the replies that you aren't the only one

Hopefully its not too trite, but my advice (I've been there...successfully) is to do what people have said here already, put kids first etc etc, but ...as you have seen here.....these are issues that touch raw nerves and words can be twisted, misinterpreted, repeated, mulled over and used against you and your partner. So NEVER speak to each other or email each other in anger, discuss it coolly, walk away when it gets emotional.

Also, I think it helps to set some principles - what does "success" look like for your breakup? Get them both on one piece of paper, then hand it over to ONE lawyer and tell them that this is what you want to accomplish....might be financial, might be kids, might be speed of settlement. There are lawyers in the UK (not sure here) who are members of a body dedicated to avoid confrontation in divorce.....I can dig out the details if you are interested
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Caviarchips for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 06.09.2011, 23:56
Niranjan
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Separation...

Quote:
View Post
Does he have any visiting rights on the kids or can I decide when and where he sees them? Do I need to take a lawyer to get any of these things sorted out, or is that not relevant given we were never married?

Would appreciate any advice or any thoughts from anyone who has already been in this situation.
Sorry, I haven't already been in this situation but I will still post some advice, hope you won't mind.

The thing is, we can only form an opinion based on the what we read in the post (sorry I have no time or interest to put myself into someone else's shoes and walk a mile, I have more interesting things to do than walking), When I read your post, while it is written in good and civil language, it does come across as nasty, spiteful and selfish to me. I mean, nowhere in your post did you suggest that your ex was a bad father. Then where does the question of controlling access to kids come from What is the lawyer supposed to "sort out"?

You both might be separating for whatever issues between you two, without knowing details (and often, even after knowing details), we won't know who is to blame, but that is between you two. But in any case you shouldn't try to use your kids for your vindictive purposes.

HTH
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at for this post:
  #18  
Old 07.09.2011, 00:24
Niranjan
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Separation...

Quote:
View Post
I think you are being unduly harsh. The OP may be asking for purely practical reasons, given that it would appear that she works, and we have no idea what her private set-up is.

She came to the forum to ask for practical advice and support in what must be a very difficult and upsetting time for her. My guess is that she did not come to be openly criticised
Relax. She/he (assuming he/she is not trolling) came here seeking free advice, s/he can't afford to have overly sensitive skin. And if a few strong words can make her reconsider her posture and make the lives of three kids better, why not
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 07.09.2011, 01:10
Ittigen
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Separation...

You might like to know that you can ask the Social services for help. There is a process here where the social department in your town can apply measures such as visiting rights and child maintenance which would require a judge in other countries. So if things get suddenly difficult, you or your partner, can get legal enforcement quickly.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 07.09.2011, 01:29
Sagitta's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 706
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 1,174 Times in 489 Posts
Sagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond reputeSagitta has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Separation...

I think the OP has acknowledged her feelings, which are natural (i.e. a lot of people would feel like her) in the circumstances. She hasn't done anything vindictive or nasty. She is just shaken and confused and is looking for some hard ground to stand on.
I do not understand where all of the accusations on this thread are coming from.
My sympathies to you, OP.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Sagitta for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Separation anxiety Fidgety Family matters/health 7 02.12.2013 12:18
Separation / Divorce jrspet Family matters/health 1 16.04.2012 22:41
Separation kansanalex Permits/visas/government 92 09.08.2011 17:53
Separation/Divorce momoko Permits/visas/government 23 07.02.2011 17:35
Separation nams Family matters/health 2 03.11.2009 11:58


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0