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Old 14.09.2011, 13:56
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

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Ownership and entitlement of the patient to the X-Rays is covered in this dissertation
http://www1.unisg.ch/www/edis.nsf/SysLkpByIdentifier/3216/$FILE/dis3216.pdf
on page 114.

And for any remaining unbelievers look at the references in footnote 525, which refers to the widely accepted commentary and even a court decision which confirm the above...

Please, please close this thread!
could you please provide evidence that the author of this dissertation passed? also please provide a certified english translation of the relevant extracts and have the certified document apostilled and uploaded onto this site. only then, can we accept this 'evidence' as admissible. tia.

*joke
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  #62  
Old 14.09.2011, 14:00
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

OK a bit OT maye but here it goes, I went to the ER today cause I fell off my bike like a sac of potatoes and my foot got stuck under the 110 kg thing...so they gave me a CD with the pictures of my Xrays, I did not even asked for it. I also got the originals from my MRI 2 years ago so I am guessing you are entitled to ask for at least some sort of digitalized copy of the X rays...good luck!
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Old 14.09.2011, 14:02
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

Maybe the OP should have titled the thread:
Am I entitled to a copy of my X-rays?

In which case, the answer is "Yes" and we can forget the rest. Agreed?
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Old 14.09.2011, 14:04
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

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Maybe the OP should have titled the thread:
Am I entitled to a copy of my X-rays?

In which case, the answer is "Yes" and we can forget the rest. Agreed?
Why stop a good debate ? It's all about learning.
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  #65  
Old 14.09.2011, 14:08
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

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Maybe the OP should have titled the thread:
Am I entitled to a copy of my X-rays?

In which case, the answer is "Yes" and we can forget the rest. Agreed?
OP has got his answer. we are over that and now are discussing a completely academic point with vague made-up legal opinions and a few naive mis-guided ones trying to provide useful links.

nobody will give in, and in 30 posts time, one side will 'concede' by re-framing the question as a different question.
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  #66  
Old 14.09.2011, 14:11
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

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OP has got his answer. we are over that and now are discussing a completely academic point with vague made-up legal opinions and a few naive mis-guided ones trying to provide useful links.

nobody will give in, and in 30 posts time, one side will 'concede' by re-framing the question as a different question.
Oh, I see. Apologies for being so crass.
Pray, continue.
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  #67  
Old 14.09.2011, 14:13
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

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Why stop a good debate ? It's all about learning.
.. Ja!.. and gets our minds off religious chocolates......

With Xrays from doctors, I see they gladly hand them over to my grandkids - (they - almost - regularly injure themselves in various impossible situations).

And I have asked for mine in the past, `cause I like to use them for silkscreening templates - and they were also just handed over.

But I get to thinking ........ when dead bodies need identifying ....... then dental Xrays are what is used for proof. So, does the dentist always hang onto those?

As for the OP, after this long debate ......he/she could just ask, neh?
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Old 14.09.2011, 14:23
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

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But I get to thinking ........ when dead bodies need identifying ....... then dental Xrays are what is used for proof. So, does the dentist always hang onto those?
My dentist hangs onto mine, too, I guess so he can see if any suspicious looking cracks and fissures become something in need of attention before they get too bad.

On the other hand, my doctor handed over a chest x-ray I had done purely because he said he would have tossed it anyway; they don't file them unless it's for an ongoing condition. I've got it here at home - looks quite cool...
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Old 14.09.2011, 14:40
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

A related question - hope you don't mind OP. Does anybody know what the correct way of disposing of old fashioned x-rays is. I have all my (now deceased) parents x-rays- should they go in the bin?
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Old 14.09.2011, 14:48
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

Our company doctor is insistent that all medical records belong to the treating doctor - used by them to come to their diagnosis. They may give you a copy, and that is their decision.
At issue was that anything a doctor writes, notes, etc. is simply the doctor completing their notes and not necessarily their actual diagnosis. You may read more into their notes than is the reality.
So, you ask, they give, you bring to next doctor, everybody happy.
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  #71  
Old 14.09.2011, 14:50
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

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Does anybody know what the correct way of disposing of old fashioned x-rays is. I have all my (now deceased) parents x-rays- should they go in the bin?
Well, it seems in ZH they go in the Sonderabfall:

http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/content/...bfall_was.html




When I had a file clear-out I gave my dearly departed muttleys' x-rays to the Tierarzt for proper disposal - it was easier than chasing down the Sonderabfall guy at our Gemeinde recycling center, and the TA was happy to take care of them for me.

(At no cost )
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  #72  
Old 14.09.2011, 14:58
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

I was at the hospital on Monday and watched the notes he was taking.

I was probably entitled to a copy, but no need. I took a picture;

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  #73  
Old 14.09.2011, 14:59
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

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I was at the hospital on Monday and watched the notes he was taking.

I was probably entitled to a copy, but no need. I took a picture;

Did you have Roundworm?
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  #74  
Old 14.09.2011, 19:38
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

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A related question - hope you don't mind OP. Does anybody know what the correct way of disposing of old fashioned x-rays is. I have all my (now deceased) parents x-rays- should they go in the bin?
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Well, it seems in ZH they go in the Sonderabfall:

http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/content/...bfall_was.html
Meloncollie, I think the fact x-ray pictures are mentioned in the list you linked to actually refers to piles of big hospital pictures. There is no reason for not disposing of some small x-ray pictures in your household garbage. Technically and chemically they are pretty much the same as ordinary black-and-white photo films. No one tells you to treat your old photos as Sonderabfall.
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  #75  
Old 14.09.2011, 20:09
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

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The OP asked "Who owned them ?", the answer is simple, the dentist. Must he supply copies - Yes.

To the other poster, they are copyrightable, as there is artistic expression, based on the settings of the machine, the angle of the camera etc. although, there are stronger precedents for title rather than copyright. Possession is 9/10ths of the law as they say. The dentist paid for all the materials and (AND) did not enter into any contact to supply the X-Rays. There is absolutely no grounds to justify that the OP paid for the title/ownership. I would suggest all the OP did was agree to the X-Ray being taken to aide the dentist. No sale was agreed.
I can't believe you referred to me a "the other poster". But whatevs!

Who owns the x-rays and whether you have rights to a copy are completely different from "copyright". Copyright is granted for original works. You can not copyright a medical X-ray. No one will copyright it for you. It is absolutely not an original expression. It's a diagnostic test that is done with precise specifications regardless of angles and settings, etc.

Copyright is there so that others don't profit from your work. If you bring a suit to the courts that someone is profiting from the sale of your work, ie. the medical x-rays that you produced, you'd be hard pressed to determine that you were the one who took those x-rays (when used as a diagnostic test) as they are not original.

Now, if you are using x-ray as an original expression like this guy that's a different matter.

Copyright is given to original works. Not output of diagnostic tests that look exactly like everyone one just like it.



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A related question - hope you don't mind OP. Does anybody know what the correct way of disposing of old fashioned x-rays is. I have all my (now deceased) parents x-rays- should they go in the bin?
Find an artistic community! Someone will be happy to make a lamp out of them! I'm not even joking!
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  #76  
Old 14.09.2011, 20:30
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

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Copyright is granted for original works.
why is an x-ray not an original work?

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No one will copyright it for you.
copyright is normally automatic, you don't need to take it to someone for them to 'copyright it for you'.

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It is absolutely not an original expression.
says who?

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It's a diagnostic test that is done with precise specifications regardless of angles and settings, etc.
google drives cars with precise specifications. so by your reasoning their streetview photos are not copyrighted?
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Old 14.09.2011, 20:50
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

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why is an x-ray not an original work?



copyright is normally automatic, you don't need to take it to someone for them to 'copyright it for you'.



says who?



google drives cars with precise specifications. so by your reasoning their streetview photos are not copyrighted?
Copyright it not necessarily automatic and in fact in the US if you want to sue someone and expect compensation you better have registered or you can forget about it.

Um, the fact that you are creating an image that looks almost identical to the last image "says" that it's no original. Google images street view are not repeated gazillions of time producing basically the same image.

Copyright does have to be validated in court of law should a dispute arise. So saying "I copyrighted that " is all fine and good until there is dispute. I'd like to see you bring this to court. The point of copyright, to protect your "original expression" from others who may profit from it.

I can scream "I've copyrighted that" all I want. Doesn't mean it will be upheld.



ETA: And I'll add that copyright is not relevant here as the OP is not looking to reproduce and profit from the sales of these images which is what copyright if for.
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Old 14.09.2011, 21:10
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

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Copyright it not necessarily automatic and in fact in the US if you want to sue someone and expect compensation you better have registered or you can forget about it.
you are confusing copyright and registering that copyright:

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf

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The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See “Copyright Registration” on page 7.

Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is “created” when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. “Copies” are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm.
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Um, the fact that you are creating an image that looks almost identical to the last image "says" that it's no original.
original does not mean 'unreproducible'.

the fact that someone else can photograph the eiffel tower from a particular spot to create a similar looking photo doesn't mean that my photo is not an original work.

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Copyright does have to be validated in court of law should a dispute arise. So saying "I copyrighted that " is all fine and good until there is dispute. I'd like to see you bring this to court. The point of copyright, to protect your "original expression" from others who may profit from it.

I can scream "I've copyrighted that" all I want. Doesn't mean it will be upheld.
in this particular case, the facts are not in dispute. the patient is not trying to claim he was also the radiographer at the time. we're discussing a point of law, not a point of fact.
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  #79  
Old 14.09.2011, 21:47
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

We can go round and round on this if you want. But from my understanding there is a concept in copyright law that is "modicum of creativity". How that applies in each country is slightly different. From my perspective 600 identical photographs of the Eiffel Tower won't pass muster. Neither will a medical x-ray.

Again, it's purely academic as I don't see anyone suing over copied x-rays and to validate your copyright claim it really needs to be tested in court.

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Old 18.09.2011, 17:57
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Re: Who owns my x-rays?

My research states that the Doctor doesn't have to release X-rays but does have to release the substantive findings of the X-rays.

Page 9
http://www.arztpraxis-zeller.ch/pdf/tk_patie.pdf

If everyone is so sure because they're dentists, could they just provide the link to the guidance. And I don't want to hear that there is nothing in writing to this effect. The idea that there is no written guidance for whether medical professionals must release certain types of records is faintly ridiculous. And "I'm a dentist" isn't a source. I know the manager of a roller disco rink who actually isn't an expert in tortious interference in sports. Thanks
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