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  #41  
Old 20.09.2011, 07:32
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Re: Smoking and kids

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Jesus the OP writes as if this lady is injecting heroine or sniffing coke in front of the child! Cigarettes are legal mate!!
Legal, but also fatal.

An interesting fact I caught on BBC Radio 4 the other day ("You and Yours" on tobacco companies targeting teenagers):

Adults who don't smoke, don't start smoking. If a person reaches 21 years without smoking they normally never will. Smoking starts with the teens (and doubtless younger as witnessed by the chicken boy). Thus anything that will stop kids trying a cigarette and anything that show smoking to be un-cool is to the applauded...
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  #42  
Old 20.09.2011, 07:48
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Re: Smoking and kids

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Legal, but also fatal.

An interesting fact I caught on BBC Radio 4 the other day ("You and Yours" on tobacco companies targeting teenagers):

Adults who don't smoke, don't start smoking. If a person reaches 21 years without smoking they normally never will. Smoking starts with the teens (and doubtless younger as witnessed by the chicken boy). Thus anything that will stop kids trying a cigarette and anything that show smoking to be un-cool is to the applauded...

Is this true? Not challenging it, but I'm interested in this study to shed some light on why I started smoking (at 29).
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Old 20.09.2011, 07:52
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Re: Smoking and kids

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Is this true? Not challenging it, but I'm interested in this study to shed some light on why I started smoking (at 29).
The clue was in the quote, "... they normally never will". Maybe you're not normal....?
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  #44  
Old 20.09.2011, 07:59
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Re: Smoking and kids

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The clue was in the quote, "... they normally never will". Maybe you're not normal....?
Well that was assumed :P

I was just hoping that if it was a decent study and publication, there's some insight and conclusive impact....otherwise it's probably ignorable.
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  #45  
Old 20.09.2011, 08:04
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Re: Smoking and kids

I think you have to list your for and against before reaching your decision. You already have all your "against": bad example for your child, potential chemicals, etc.

But don't forget that it's very difficult to find a Tagesmutter, and that they are paid a misery so it's really a vocation-kind of job. Moreover she never smokes in his immediate presence, and he is too old to spend his time in his arms and be bothered by the chemicals on her.
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  #46  
Old 20.09.2011, 08:17
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Re: Smoking and kids

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I want to have a non smoking childminder
Fat chance of finding one in Switzerland!

Tom
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  #47  
Old 20.09.2011, 08:19
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Re: Smoking and kids

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Actually whilst peer pressure is an issue, the fact is that kids having a parent or close family member who smokes are twice as likely to start smoking than the ones from non-smoking households.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/31304.php

Of course there are lots of factors and no way you can control all of them but being a non smoker yourself is a good start for your kids.
Both my parents smoked, as did most people I knew growing up in the 1950s/60s. I went to school every day on a bus filled with smoke upstairs but myself have never smoked or been inclined to.

Think you have to make it clear to your son that you do not tolerate smoke at home or in your family but make it clear that other people do smoke and what they do in their home is their business. Smoking is a fact of life.
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  #48  
Old 20.09.2011, 08:31
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Re: Smoking and kids

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Today my son came home and out of the blue stated "I'm not ever going to smoke, it's gross and smelly". Good, I said, but then obviously I wanted to know what brought this comment on. So then comes the killer blow "Frau Winter might die - it says so on the cigarette packet"
First: Has she actually smoked around your son?
Second: How does your son know it smells, if he only saw "tödlich" on the pack? (he may have had his opinion influenced)
Third: How does he know the cigarettes were hers? Has he seen her smoking?
Fourth: If you are a non-smoker, how did you not smell residual smoke in her clothes and on her breath during the interview? (I can usually smell a smoker from 50 feet)

Lastly, if you know for certain that she is smoking around in view of your child, and you specified that you wanted a non-smoker, and she misrepresented this qualification, then I believe that would be grounds for cancelation of the contract.

For the record. I was one of those kids who said things about cigarettes being gross and smelly. I had a grandfather who smoked a pipe and a father who smoked cigarettes. One day when I was about 10 or so, I went to my father, and in my grandfather's house mind you, took his cigarettes out of his hand, took all of them out of the pack, broke them right there on the spot, and said, "daddy, I don't want you to die."

My dad quit within a year after that.

Then when I was 15 I started smoking. Peer pressure had more influence on that choice than did anything else.
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  #49  
Old 20.09.2011, 08:36
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Re: Smoking and kids

It's a personal choice and a process of education.

You don't have to put up with the situation find someone else if you feel that way. I probably would, however...

Children should be informed as soon as possible (as with drugs) that smoking is not cool and the conciquences of smokers actions. The message should be given as clear and unbiased as possible (minus hysteria)

i.e. How tagesmutter will die younger (not next week) and that death is likely to faster and more painful in the future than someone who did not smoke. Explain how you smoked and that you gave up and why.

I guess you're going to have far more problems in around 10 years time, but the constant reinforcement of this message may reduce the chance of your child smoking later in life. Same applies to alcohol abuse and binge drinking which CH has less a problem with than the UK, for this very reason. Children get used to alcohol around and it's not some unknown quantity by the time they reach 16.

I don't think wrapping children in cotton wool helps, they have to learn the consiquences of their own choices and the subsequent results.
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Old 20.09.2011, 08:47
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Re: Smoking and kids

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Is this true? Not challenging it, but I'm interested in this study to shed some light on why I started smoking (at 29).
It was part of this programme which was reporting on a study done in Scotland (Stirling Uni) why teenagers start smoking.

Philip Morris wanted to get its hands on the findings under the Freedom of Information Act so it can find ways of changing its marketing to take account of this.

Presumably to sell more cigs to kids.
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  #51  
Old 20.09.2011, 08:53
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Re: Smoking and kids

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Well that was assumed :P

I was just hoping that if it was a decent study and publication, there's some insight and conclusive impact....otherwise it's probably ignorable.
.

Yes, a decent study conducted by a British University along with Cancer Research UK, a UK charity who spend millions each year on medical research looking at the causes of cancers.

In fact Philip Morris are trying to get hold of the information through legal proceedings citing the freedom of information act as they too would like to find the triggers that cause children and young adults to start smoking.

The study will make interesting reading when it is eventually published and it could possibly be that the OP on this thread has a fair and valid point regarding the Tagesmutter smoking in front of her children and the effect of her smoking on the way they perceive the habit.

Last edited by Tom1234; 20.09.2011 at 08:54. Reason: Sandgrounder beat me to it.
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  #52  
Old 20.09.2011, 08:59
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Re: Smoking and kids

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.

Yes, a decent study conducted by a British University along with Cancer Research UK, a UK charity who spend millions each year on medical research looking at the causes of cancers.

In fact Philip Morris are trying to get hold of the information through legal proceedings citing the freedom of information act as they too would like to find the triggers that cause children and young adults to start smoking.

The study will make interesting reading when it is eventually published and it could possibly be that the OP on this thread has a fair and valid point regarding the Tagesmutter smoking in front of her children and the effect of her smoking on the way they perceive the habit.

I guess it was a point that I see many examples of younger people starting to smoke following adults and role models rather than peer pressures and trying to be cool. Obviously there's not a distinct boundary between the two. But I feel on my observations, there is a higher correlation of younger smokers who's parents or caregivers have smoked rather than youth with smoke free parents whos begin to smoke because their friends do.
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  #53  
Old 20.09.2011, 09:03
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Re: Smoking and kids

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I guess it was a point that I see many examples of younger people starting to smoke following adults and role models rather than peer pressures and trying to be cool. Obviously there's not a distinct boundary between the two. But I feel on my observations, there is a higher correlation of younger smokers who's parents or caregivers have smoked rather than youth with smoke free parents whos begin to smoke because their friends do.
I don't know about smoking as none of my household smoke but I do see my children adopt other habits of my wife and I, probably because they see them as the norm.

I do not see why it would not follow that children would see cigarette smoking as the norm and the more they see it, the more normal it appears to them.
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Old 20.09.2011, 09:07
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Re: Smoking and kids

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I don't know about smoking as none of my household smoke but I do see my children adopt other habits of my wife and I, probably because they see them as the norm.

I do not see why it would not follow that children would see cigarette smoking as the norm and the more they see it, the more normal it appears to them.

Agreed! what is comes down to (and really a solution to many social issues) is positive involved parenting. If as a parent you are a positive role model for your kids--they will most like make the right decisions regardless of the rest of the world around them. If parently style is 'infront of the TV', "laissez faire", "go hang out with your friends all day long and do nothing", there is a better chance that they might adopt other role models which you as a parent would personally not approve of.
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Old 20.09.2011, 09:11
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Re: Smoking and kids

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I guess it was a point that I see many examples of younger people starting to smoke following adults and role models rather than peer pressures and trying to be cool. Obviously there's not a distinct boundary between the two. But I feel on my observations, there is a higher correlation of younger smokers who's parents or caregivers have smoked rather than youth with smoke free parents whos begin to smoke because their friends do.
My sister and I were brought up in the same way by the same parents (neither of whom smoked). I was always the clean living sporty one who wouldn't touch a cigarette but my sister has smoked since she was 15 and had no interest in sport unless it was on a screen in front of her.

At school she got in with a bad crowd who mostly all smoked whereas I was in with the goody-two-shoes band who thought we were living on the edge if we did our maths homework on the bus into school instead of the night before.

I think smoking has a lot to do with outside influences and these big tobacco producers know that, and their experts will be doing their utmost to exploit it, whatever their public face might say.
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Old 20.09.2011, 09:18
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Re: Smoking and kids

Your concern is justified, as your son's upbringing is no one's responsibility but you and his father's.

Your irritation/anger at being misled in regard to whether or not the Tagesmutter smoked is justified as well, however there is a gray area as to whether smoking on the balcony constitutes a "smoking household" or not.

It seems to be of primary importance, prior to determining how to proceed, to definitively determine whether or not he is being directly exposed to secondhand smoke. If so, your decision is an easy one.

If you find the case to be that she is indeed only smoking on the balcony and outdoors, and you are still evaluating whether to cancel the contract, don't forget that a seven-year-old (and 8-, 9-, 10-year-old, all bets off after that) is looking almost wholly to you, his parent, for guidance. The lion's share of influence is coming from you rather than his after-school caregiver, teachers, etc. Don't underestimate the power of influence that you as caring, loving parents have upon him. IMHO, a seven-year-old is capable of understanding a dialogue about choices, can grasp real-world examples of choices, and can appreciate reasons why Mummy and Daddy want certain outcomes for him because they love him so much!
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Old 20.09.2011, 10:38
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Re: Smoking and kids

Another issue that hasn't been mentioned, an issue perhaps with the association of tagesmutters, is if she is indeed smoking on the balcony, who is watching/minding the children? As we all know, accidents only take seconds to happen.
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Old 20.09.2011, 11:40
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Re: Smoking and kids

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Another issue that hasn't been mentioned, an issue perhaps with the association of tagesmutters, is if she is indeed smoking on the balcony, who is watching/minding the children? As we all know, accidents only take seconds to happen.
This I think would be an issue if he were younger, but I can't really hold her to task for this because she is only on the balcony - she's no further away from him than she would be if she were in the kitchen cooking his lunch, or if she were in the bathroom taking a leak. And if he were at home I would not be watching him all the time either.

My husband and I decided last night that we give it a go and talk to her about it first, and basically ask that she stop. If she can't really understand our point or why we're so uptight about it i.e. if she doesn't think it's an issue because she's doing it outside albeit in front of him and she can't get the point about being a role model - then we will cancel the contract. If she agrees and says that she will not do it in front of him any more then I think we will try to continue, although I'm not sure whether the trust is gone already.... I think in this case I'll just have to see how the discussion goes a bit and then decide.

My own story by the way, in case anyone is interested to hear other stories about what triggers smoking.... My father was a smoker. He always smoked outside because my mother hated the smell. She would even make him change clothes and wash his hands after he'd been out for a smoke. Seeing as how my mother was my "preferred" parent if you like, growing up I always thought it was a gross habit and agreed with mum. But as I got older, I found that I had more in common with my Dad and basically grew to respect him a lot more. I even felt sympathetic towards him since my Mum was so mean to him about his habit. So by the time I left home I was fully aware of both sides to the smoking story (how my Dad basically used it as his "private" time when he knew nobody would disturb him!) When I left for Uni I found a lot of friends who smoked, and I tried it. If my Dad had not been a smoker.... I don't know.... no idea. But I was I guess already seeing smoking as something that "normal" people like my Dad did. I liked it. So I continued. I liked being in the smoking gang. I even liked going home and being sent outside in exclusion with my Dad! I was never a heavy smoker - an occasional "social" smoking habit developed over the years. And in the end I gave up for love - because the guy I was dating, whom I adored, didn't like it. I married him and therefore never smoked again! If I had married a smoker, perhaps I wouldn't be here asking these questions, who knows.

I think what triggers someone to smoke is a complex issue but as with anything that's down to risk and choice, you eliminate the risks that you can, knowing that there is always going to be another risk that you might not be able to. But still, we all try to do the best we can.
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Old 21.09.2011, 09:36
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Re: Smoking and kids

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No - she does smoke when my kid is there - she does it on her balcony while he's there and when they are at the park. So no, not in her own time - it's the time I paid her to look after my son.

Basically if he comes home having seen her smoking then no, I'm not happy about it, because she's an "adult of influence" in his life setting a bad example.
But he said he never wants to smoke....
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Old 21.09.2011, 10:05
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Re: Smoking and kids

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But he said he never wants to smoke....
There are many things I thought were disgusting at 7yo (and even at 12yo) which I said I'd never do - and yet I do.
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