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Old 21.10.2011, 11:34
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

I'm starting to think there's a new trend in the woo crowd, accepting it's all the placebo effect, "as we call it", but that it has more effect for believers in woo than non believers, because they know something more than the rest of us.

AFAIK it works on anyone, the most ardent critic of homeopathy has just as much chance of getting a placebo effect as the most fervent believer, equally the most fervent believer has just as much chance of it not working.
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Old 21.10.2011, 11:41
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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  #23  
Old 21.10.2011, 11:56
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

Pretty amazing that we have such a broad spectrum of experts on the subject. Fact is, classically trained doctors are not versed in all alternative methods of treatment so it is hardly surprising how little is taken seriously in the mainstream. Take electricity and the treatment of organs for example, in an excellent book called "Vibrational Medicine" the study of cells and their interaction with one another and their healing properties which are linked with electronic or energy driven fields. The only time you'll ever hear about western medicine applying power to the body is when the patient is in cardiac arrest and all other methods have failed, then and only then will they resort to applying current. The Chinese have been using meridians and energy points for thousands of centuries along with herbal preparations and their TCM methods are still being practised today. Fact is, we have become forgetful of traditional healing methods because we think that ground zero was the discovery of penicillin. It is another tool, but not the "be all" of cures. Antibiotics and their ilk smother symptoms but do not reset the underlying causes of illness.

There is not one way of curing people with ailments, but we should all keep an open mind to every option in curing the causes and not being distracted by symptoms which are clearly just ways that our body's system is telling us that all is not well.

Before you all laugh yourselves stupid about homeopathy, check out what cell phones and electronic devices are doing for your immune system. But then again, if you think you're OK, blissful ignorance can also be a calming therapy against all the medical conditions that you may or may not have.
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  #24  
Old 21.10.2011, 11:59
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

I'll bite.

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Nope, but ironically some of the people in this thread criticizing homeopathy do.
Not all supernatural beliefs are equal in terms of influence and/or sophistication. While atheists would have it that there is no essential difference between belief in the tooth fairy and, e.g. Christianity, I don't think this is born out by the facts. To put it bluntly, no-one has killed anyone because they refused to accept the toothfairy. Conversely, no-one has founded medical missions based on the belief of 5p under the pillow.

Christianity has a two thousand year tradition of establishing its rational basis, and has been quite dynamic in many ways. Homeopathy has not really attracted the same level of rational, philosophical and intellectual inquiry. It was first proposed in the early 19th century, as a reaction against the shocking state of Western medicine at the time, it really hasn't moved on since then - in fact it's been quite hostile to any kind of reformation.

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...Before you all laugh yourselves stupid about homeopathy, check out what cell phones and electronic devices are doing for your immune system....
I'm ok, because I'm wearing my tinfoil hat. But watch out for airplane contrails, they'll get through even that.
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  #25  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:01
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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I'll bite.
Christianity has a two thousand year tradition of establishing its rational basis, and has been quite dynamic in many ways. Homeopathy has not really attracted the same level of rational, philosophical and intellectual inquiry. It was first proposed in the early 19th century, as a reaction against the shocking state of Western medicine at the time, it really hasn't moved on since then - in fact it's been quite hostile to any kind of reformation.
You tried to make a comparison, but ended up making them sound the same.
  #26  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:02
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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You tried to make a comparison, but ended up making them sound the same.
Go read a history book.
  #27  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:10
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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Go read a history book.
About what? First off, lets establish which part of the reformed church you're from, and then see if you really have moved on or not, or just given ground in the face of oustanding public opinion.
  #28  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:10
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

When i was a kid (like many of you i am sure) i used to put my teeth under my pillow. Then in the morning 50p would be there instead.

Then once i put it under my pillow but did not tell my mum. In the morning i told her that the tooth fairy did not come. At this point i still believed in the tooth fairy and just thought she must have been busy. It was the look of horror on my mums face that made the penny drop.

My mum saw that i had just figured it out and tried to save the situation by suggesting that i should try again........i was not having any of it and instead brokered a deal that i just give her any future teeth directly but that i require £2 in compensation for those years of lies.


A couple of years later the same thing happened with Santa when i stayed up all night until she crept into my room to put presents in my room.


This has no relevance to the thread........i just thought i would share.

cheers
SC
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  #29  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:14
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

Quote:
To put it bluntly, no-one has killed anyone because they refused to accept the toothfairy. Conversely, no-one has founded medical missions based on the belief of 5p under the pillow.
This is no basis for the credibility of anything. People used to kill for Thor, Quetzacotl, and Zeus, too.
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Christianity has a two thousand year tradition of establishing its rational basis, and has been quite dynamic in many ways.
It hasn't really had a choice, it's been repeatedly backed into a corner by increasing scientific knowledge and evolving morality. Anyone who takes a literal interpretation of the Bible would be considered quite silly today. Yet that is still considered the go-to document. The only thing it's been dynamic about is existing (and eventually co-existing) with society and it's followers (not clergy) chipping away at how literally the foundation of its beliefs should be taken, until we get what we have today, an almost-complete watering-down (who said I was off-topic? ) to just a few basic things Jesus said.

Your team has been around longer and has been more clever and more brutal about its survival. That's it. This has little to do with the rationailty of the core beliefs no matter how much you'd like to think it does.
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  #30  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:15
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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Quote:
...Before you all laugh yourselves stupid about homeopathy, check out what cell phones and electronic devices are doing for your immune system....
I'm ok, because I'm wearing my tinfoil hat. But watch out for airplane contrails, they'll get through even that.
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  #31  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:26
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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Before you all laugh yourselves stupid about homeopathy, check out what cell phones and electronic devices are doing for your immune system. But then again, if you think you're OK, blissful ignorance can also be a calming therapy against all the medical conditions that you may or may not have.
The doctor who 'published' work on this is not actually a real doctor - he's another crackpot.

There is a heating affect from transmissions on a mobile phone if left in your trouser pocket but this is a lot less than the heating affect caused by wearing underpants and trousers.
  #32  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:33
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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Pretty amazing that we have such a broad spectrum of experts on the subject. Fact is, classically trained doctors are not versed in all alternative methods of treatment so it is hardly surprising how little is taken seriously in the mainstream. Take electricity and the treatment of organs for example, in an excellent book called "Vibrational Medicine" the study of cells and their interaction with one another and their healing properties which are linked with electronic or energy driven fields. The only time you'll ever hear about western medicine applying power to the body is when the patient is in cardiac arrest and all other methods have failed, then and only then will they resort to applying current. The Chinese have been using meridians and energy points for thousands of centuries along with herbal preparations and their TCM methods are still being practised today. Fact is, we have become forgetful of traditional healing methods because we think that ground zero was the discovery of penicillin. It is another tool, but not the "be all" of cures. Antibiotics and their ilk smother symptoms but do not reset the underlying causes of illness.

There is not one way of curing people with ailments, but we should all keep an open mind to every option in curing the causes and not being distracted by symptoms which are clearly just ways that our body's system is telling us that all is not well.

Before you all laugh yourselves stupid about homeopathy, check out what cell phones and electronic devices are doing for your immune system. But then again, if you think you're OK, blissful ignorance can also be a calming therapy against all the medical conditions that you may or may not have.
I am sorry, but you do again the one thing that keeps on confusing people: Putting homeopathy into one line with tradtitional natural remedies or Chinese medicine.

There is one HUGE difference - traditional plant extracts are potent. In fact so potent that some are outlawed by now as we know and understand the risks and side effects of them better. Same is true for Chinese medicine - I took it before without being any sort of believer - I was simply ill and ... in China. The stuff I got from the TCM doctor got me so dizzy that it nearly knocked me out (but it did cure my fever fast and effectively) - that's far away from some water.

I am totally for traditional remedies and the use of plants we know for centuries - but that's not what people critizise here - it is not the 0.0001% plant in the homeopathy that I don't believe in, it's the water that makes up the rest. And homeopathy is not one of those ancient arts - it's a relatively modern pseudo science that has simply no scientific base whatsoever. Every modern scientist can accept that some powder from that Zulu medicine man can be a strong solution and can be scientifically analyzed - and most natural medicines have proven to be effective. Water simply doesn't have an effect.

The one thing I don't get is how the US for example can on the one hand outlaw "toning shoes" for making unreasonable advertising claims, but on the other hand let people believe in this rubbish.
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  #33  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:34
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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This is no basis for the credibility of anything. People used to kill for Thor, Quetzacotl, and Zeus, too.It hasn't really had a choice, it's been repeatedly backed into a corner by increasing scientific knowledge and evolving morality. Anyone who takes a literal interpretation of the Bible would be considered quite silly today. Yet that is still considered the go-to document. The only thing it's been dynamic about is existing (and eventually co-existing) with society and it's followers (not clergy) chipping away at how literally the foundation of its beliefs should be taken, until we get what we have today, an almost-complete watering-down (who said I was off-topic? ) to just a few basic things Jesus said.

Your team has been around longer and has been more clever and more brutal about its survival. That's it. This has little to do with the rationailty of the core beliefs no matter how much you'd like to think it does.

Can you reduce this to 255 characters, I want to make it my signature.
  #34  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:34
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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Pretty amazing that we have such a broad spectrum of experts on the subject. Fact is, classically trained doctors are not versed in all alternative methods of treatment so it is hardly surprising how little is taken seriously in the mainstream. Take electricity and the treatment of organs for example, in an excellent book called "Vibrational Medicine" the study of cells and their interaction with one another and their healing properties which are linked with electronic or energy driven fields. The only time you'll ever hear about western medicine applying power to the body is when the patient is in cardiac arrest and all other methods have failed, then and only then will they resort to applying current. The Chinese have been using meridians and energy points for thousands of centuries along with herbal preparations and their TCM methods are still being practised today. Fact is, we have become forgetful of traditional healing methods because we think that ground zero was the discovery of penicillin. It is another tool, but not the "be all" of cures. Antibiotics and their ilk smother symptoms but do not reset the underlying causes of illness.

There is not one way of curing people with ailments, but we should all keep an open mind to every option in curing the causes and not being distracted by symptoms which are clearly just ways that our body's system is telling us that all is not well.

Before you all laugh yourselves stupid about homeopathy, check out what cell phones and electronic devices are doing for your immune system. But then again, if you think you're OK, blissful ignorance can also be a calming therapy against all the medical conditions that you may or may not have.
I have nothing against herbal medicine or traditional Chinese medicine. There is an active chemical component there. Even with electrical therapies there is actually a stimulus.

With homoeopathy, it's just water. There is no evidence and it has been proven time and time again to have no effect beyond the placebo effect in studies
  #35  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:35
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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There is not one way of curing people with ailments, but we should all keep an open mind to every option in curing the causes and not being distracted by symptoms which are clearly just ways that our body's system is telling us that all is not well.

Before you all laugh yourselves stupid about homeopathy, check out what cell phones and electronic devices are doing for your immune system. But then again, if you think you're OK, blissful ignorance can also be a calming therapy against all the medical conditions that you may or may not have.
Just because we don't know something doesn't give us free range to believe anything despite all evidence (and against homeopathy there is plenty) to the contrary. Cell phone signals and frequences for example do merit further study. There has been an explosion in the number of cell-phone and wi-fi signals that travel around and through our bodies during the last 10 years. It can potentially be harmful, but we'll ignore it until we have no counter-argument. That's how human beings are, especially with something as convenient and awesome as cell phones on the line!

Homeopathy from its inception has never had any evidence besides personal anecdotes showing that it's useful for much of anything besides making gullible people hemmorrage money. Call us party poopers, but some of us like a clear link of cause->effect and not just effect->"the-cause-is-what-I-want-it-to-be."

And you know what we've done with traditional remedies we've found to concretely work? Made medecines out of them!
  #36  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:36
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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When i was a kid (like many of you i am sure) i used to put my teeth under my pillow. Then in the morning 50p would be there instead.

Then once i put it under my pillow but did not tell my mum. In the morning i told her that the tooth fairy did not come. At this point i still believed in the tooth fairy and just thought she must have been busy. It was the look of horror on my mums face that made the penny drop.

My mum saw that i had just figured it out and tried to save the situation by suggesting that i should try again........i was not having any of it and instead brokered a deal that i just give her any future teeth directly but that i require £2 in compensation for those years of lies.


A couple of years later the same thing happened with Santa when i stayed up all night until she crept into my room to put presents in my room.


This has no relevance to the thread........i just thought i would share.

cheers
SC

The difference between you and the homeopathic believers is that despite being told that the tooth fairy and Santa did not exist, the'd still believe it.

My son know the tooth fairy doesn't exist (my wife told him) but he still likes to put a tooth under his pillow and get a couple of Francs.

I still like watching Zombie films even though I know they don't exist.
  #37  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:37
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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can you reduce this to 255 characters, i want to make it my signature.
this is sparta!
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  #38  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:39
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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I have nothing against herbal medicine or traditional Chinese medicine. There is an active chemical component there. Even with electrical therapies there is actually a stimulus.
I have a lot against some of it. Please tell me what the active ingredients are in Tiger genitals that can cure human illnesses?
  #39  
Old 21.10.2011, 12:40
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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Can you reduce this to 255 characters, I want to make it my signature.
I'm in a stupid mood this morning so I'll make it a rap:

Ain't no real thang, such a bore
Don't make you no better than Thor
Yeah, you crafty and killed more homies
But you no longer old school,
like all the other phonies.

Word.
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Old 21.10.2011, 12:47
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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I'm in a stupid mood this morning so I'll make it a rap:

Ain't no real thang, such a bore
Don't make you no better than Thor
Yeah, you crafty and killed more homies
But you no longer old school,
like all the other phonies.

Word.


Please note that in rap the word 'school' is spelt 'skool'.

Also you missed out a chance to use the word 'whore'.

cheers
SC
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