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Old 19.10.2011, 11:59
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Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

Hi all, I have been on homeopathy for years now, but I am struggling to find out a reliable doctor in Zürich. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!
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Old 19.10.2011, 12:04
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Re: Does anybody recommend a homeopathic doctor in Zürich?doctor in Zürich?

There are a couple of brave homeopathy fans here who should be along shortly to sort you out. It's very popular here.

While you're waiting,

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Old 19.10.2011, 12:04
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Re: Does anybody recommend a homeopathic doctor in Zürich?doctor in Zürich?

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Does anybody recommend a homeopathic doctor
no, and nowhere in the world.
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Old 19.10.2011, 12:39
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Hi all, I have been on homeopathy for years now, but I am struggling to find out a reliable doctor in Zürich. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!
Couldn't you just pretend to go to one?

Alternatively, I've seen quite a few apothekes who seem to specialise in this sort of thing, and I believe many will do consultations, so perhaps this is the better route for you.
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Old 19.10.2011, 12:47
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

I don't think Swiss FMH doctors are allowed to trick their patients with a phial of water, they would be prosecuted for fraud.

So as Ace1 says, maybe you will have more luck with the local pharmacy.
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Old 20.10.2011, 16:56
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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Hi all, I have been on homeopathy for years now, but I am struggling to find out a reliable doctor in Zürich. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!
Listen, I'm not going to poke fun at you like some others here might be tempted to, but the sad fact of the matter is, any positive benefit you've been having from homeopathy is a placebo effect. This is not my opinion, it's a fact that's been shown reliably over years of many larger and better studies.
I won't go into things like double-blind testing, small or badly-designed studies that can sometimes seem to show positive effects, etc....it's a long discussion. So instead I'll play the ball back to you: if you're doing this for years already, it's in your interest to find out about it objectively, and *not* just go searching for the stories or studies that happen to support the idea that it works, but look at the larger picture, which is more sobering. I'm not going to begin a debate here, but I do feel it's my duty as a scientist to throw in my two cents and give you the "other" side of the story. But don't stop there, please continue to gather information, but make sure to always ask yourself how you know you can trust the information you got. It's not always easy, and all I can say as a scientist myself is that the scientific method is sometimes tricky, and simple but subtle at the same time and because of the subtlety, not always done as well as it should be by individual scientists. But in the long run and on a large scale it always reveals more truth (about, say, whether a treatment works or not) than any other truth-seeking system can - because it's international, competitive and therefore self-correcting. It's designed *not* to allow any one group or person to be able to make claims that can't be supported by sufficient evidence in the long run. Anyway, this discussion could go on for days but I don't have time, so I'll just say "be critical not only of information you find, but also of your own desires for quick and satisfying answers", trust the scientific method when trying to evaluate scientific claims, and .... well, sorry, but do NOT continue with homeopathy if you don't want to waste your money and support what's effectively a large-scale scam.

The sites that are openly critical of homeopathy usually are critical NOT because of some ideological differences compared with homeopaths or whatever, but rather because the best *evidence* shows that it's complete and utter bunk. That is: it works precisely as good as *anything* at all that you *believe* could be helping you (that's the placebo effect). And it's more than likely that whoever is selling it to you knows that the scientific consensus is against them - but they don't tell you that because they're making good money off of you. That said, there are also some truly self-deluded pharmacists and homeopaths who honestly believe in their wares, but that doesn't mean it isn't essentially air that they're selling.

I can also say with 90% certainty that none of this will change your mind, because you'll just be thinking "what does HE know? - it works for ME, and that's proof enough for me". Am I right? Well...unfortunately that's the most common reason why people buy into stuff like this. They just don't understand that the easiest person you can fool is yourself. That's why scientists have to be self-critical; you always need to ask "Have I excluded ALL possible *other* explanations for my phenomenon before assuming my explanation is correct?". Because if you don't go through that process, someone else will do it for you - and make you look like a sloppy worker. That's how science progresses. It's a process of coming up with possible explanations and truths - and then trying to prove yourself wrong to see if it stands up to critical scrutiny. In the process science gives us things like cell phones and knowledge about the solar system, diseases and colors, it gives us computers and airplanes and a view back in time to nearly the beginning of the cosmos...just about anything in the physical world can be studied by science - which is not to say that science has "all the answers"! - but it's the process that works the best for us fallible and egotistical humans.

Let me ask you one thing: do you believe in astrology? I ask this because in case you don't, then think about the fact that many people do - for (probably) precisely the same reason you believe in homeopathy: because they've "seen" it work for them. What's going on there? Pattern-seeking. Looking for the hits and forgetting the misses. In your case, it's also the body healing itself; that's what it does. But one "data point" is nearly worthless in the larger question of whether a treatment is actually effective or not; it could just be "noise". You need not only studies of large numbers of people, but well designed studies, and you'd be surprised how many aren't.

That's it for my "rant"...! One reason I jumped in is because things like homeopathy (alas it's far from alone in the game of pseudo-scientific nonsense treatments) have caused many deaths in the world in cases where the people believed in it. Not only that, but it doesn't help the world in general if people don't learn the techniques for separating sense from nonsense, and homeopathy is a great "case study" of well-marketed nonsense.

Here we go with a few starter links:

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/...meopathy.ars/1

http://www.quackwatch.com/search/web...ery=homeopathy

or heck, even:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

And for those who claim "What's the harm? Let people buy something if they think it helps!" :
http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

Cheers, runway
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Old 20.10.2011, 17:28
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

There is one website where you can get homepathic remedies, without the flimflam, without misleading you, that's really not driven by the profit motive. I thoroughly recommend a visit: http://www.fdhom.co.uk/
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Old 20.10.2011, 17:51
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

...must...resist...must...resist...must...resist.. .
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Old 20.10.2011, 18:01
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

I just wanted to say that Runway's post was a very considerate and well spoken piece of work- so I want a groan too for my snarky pic!

And a lot of people never look into what homeopathy really is- they just think it's natural medicine like herbs and stuff. Was speaking to a Swiss friend of mine the other day who happens to be formerly a chemist- and since forever a homeopathy fan. Started in on the 'water memory' thing as a topic of conversation and he looked at me like I was speaking Greek. He had no idea of the whole dilution thing, just thought it was non-traditional medicine. I tried to be gentle and considerate about it, but he was really surprised at the reality and perhaps himself for not having looked into it before. He probably will keep taking it, as he's just like that, but I think that informing people about the way homeopathy really (supposedly) works is A-OK. A surprising number of users have no idea.
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Old 20.10.2011, 21:36
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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... Was speaking to a Swiss friend of mine the other day who happens to be formerly a chemist- and since forever a homeopathy fan...
Chemist as in chemistry or as in pharmacist?

If the latter then never ask this friend of yours for medical advice.

If the former... well... just consider never asking them for advice... period.
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Old 21.10.2011, 06:20
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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Chemist as in chemistry or as in pharmacist?

If the latter then never ask this friend of yours for medical advice.

If the former... well... just consider never asking them for advice... period.
Chemist as in chemistry, but actually he used to work in production at one of the big Pharma companies . I think that maybe that's what turned him to the dark side... . He's very well informed on everything else (and was my one-man English Forum before the English Forum ever existed!).
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Old 21.10.2011, 08:59
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

Nice when you get groaned for reporting accurate facts.

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...And a lot of people never look into what homeopathy really is- they just think it's natural medicine like herbs and stuff. ...
Indeed. Homeopathy is not herbal medicine (though many remedies involve diluting herbs out of existence). Homeopathy is not holistic medicine (though many homeopaths have a holistic approach).

Now some opinon, as opposed to strict facts. Homeopathy is not medicine - it is magic potions. (cf. "succussion" ), in the same way that Feng Shui is geomancy - the magic of positioning. If they work at all, there is nothing scientific about them. Just a continuation of superstition and sorcery.
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Old 21.10.2011, 09:18
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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I just wanted to say that Runway's post was a very considerate and well spoken piece of work- so I want a groan too for my snarky pic!

And a lot of people never look into what homeopathy really is- they just think it's natural medicine like herbs and stuff. Was speaking to a Swiss friend of mine the other day who happens to be formerly a chemist- and since forever a homeopathy fan. Started in on the 'water memory' thing as a topic of conversation and he looked at me like I was speaking Greek. He had no idea of the whole dilution thing, just thought it was non-traditional medicine. I tried to be gentle and considerate about it, but he was really surprised at the reality and perhaps himself for not having looked into it before. He probably will keep taking it, as he's just like that, but I think that informing people about the way homeopathy really (supposedly) works is A-OK. A surprising number of users have no idea.
It's a big con - a money spinner that the Swiss have bought into (and a few foreigners as well).

Earlier this week my wife was chatting about weekly shopping bills with a couple of Swiss friends.

One asked my wife whether our total included that week's Apthoteke/Drogorie spending.

My wife was bemused - we don't shop weekly at the Apthoteke or Drogorie. Nor monthly.

I think there's a bargain bottle of 200 non-branded ibuprofen I picked up in the U.S. for a couple of dollars somewhere in the cellar and some sticking plasters but that's about it.

I think the problem here is that the Swiss see the default state of being as not well and so they need to take medicines/vitamins etc to bring themselves up to a healthy state. The rest of of see being healthy as the default state.

The best thing a chemist can prescribe to someone who is not actually ill (or not actually ill enough to require conventional treatment), is a placebo and homeopathy with it`s glossy packaging fits right in here.
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Old 21.10.2011, 09:25
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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Nice when you get groaned for reporting accurate facts.
Just looked at the link in your other post- most excellent .
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Old 21.10.2011, 09:45
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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Just looked at the link in your other post- most excellent .
I liked this testimonial:

I ordered your product to help treat a mild cold I was experiencing and that evening I began to feel much better. By the time your product arrived I was nearly fully cured!

I cannot recommend this enough, thank you FairDeal Homeopathy!!!
– Mr S. Scott


He achieved better health by just thinking about a Homeopathic product!
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Old 21.10.2011, 10:02
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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I liked this testimonial:

I ordered your product to help treat a mild cold I was experiencing and that evening I began to feel much better. By the time your product arrived I was nearly fully cured!

I cannot recommend this enough, thank you FairDeal Homeopathy!!!
– Mr S. Scott


He achieved better health by just thinking about a Homeopathic product!
You did realise that the website was a joke, didn't you?
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Old 21.10.2011, 10:02
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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...The best thing a chemist can prescribe to someone who is not actually ill (or not actually ill enough to require conventional treatment), is a placebo and homeopathy with it`s glossy packaging fits right in here.
The problem with a pharmacy peddling this stuff, is that it imbues the product with an aura of scientific/medical authority. Ethically, I think it's dubious.
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Old 21.10.2011, 10:10
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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The problem with a pharmacy peddling this stuff, is that it imbues the product with an aura of scientific/medical authority. Ethically, I think it's dubious.
I think the bigger problem is that the same people I mentioned in my post have also decided not to give their children the MMR vaccine (or indeed any vaccine) as they have been taken in by the rubbish reported about the vaccine.

To tie this in to your post, they truly believe there is an alternative to conventional medicine and are putting the health of their children (and pregnant mothers) at risk by believing in this nonsense.

When you believe that water can cure you, it doesn't take too many steps to believe everything else that is plainly stupid.
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Old 21.10.2011, 10:21
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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I think the bigger problem is that the same people I mentioned in my post have also decided not to give their children the MMR vaccine (or indeed any vaccine) as they have been taken in by the rubbish reported about the vaccine.
Just in case you haven't kept up to date, any remaining doubts about this were cast away last year when the doctor who started it all was struck off the Medical Register for deliberately fiddling the figures. Full details on Wikipedia

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When you believe that water can cure you, it doesn't take too many steps to believe everything else that is plainly stupid.
Do they believe in sky fairies too?
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Old 21.10.2011, 10:32
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Re: Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich?

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Do they believe in sky fairies too?
Nope, but ironically some of the people in this thread criticizing homeopathy do.

"Oooh!"



But seriously, it is shocking what percentage of people who are into homeopathy are completely uninformed about what it actually is.
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