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Old 22.11.2011, 18:18
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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You obviously don't know anything about being married... and I am not surprised you don't believe in marriages... most of men don't if you ask them, why would they? It is clever to keep your door open in case you wish to walk away but from the woman's perspective it might be waste of time. In formal relationship you will have to think it over really well before you dump your partner while in free, informal relationship you can walk away if you feel the feeling has vanished and there is no more 'love in ' in it (and almost in every relationship the 'so in love' part comes to en end. It is more important what stays after it happens.) I believe if the woman is with someone in a long term relationship and he refuses to marry her then this is waste of time. Of course this is my personal opinion and you don't have to agree at all, however if you want to be with me, take the best years of my life when I am young and fresh then you can as well marry me. I don't think it is worth to spend the best years of your young life with someone who is not willing to fully participate in it the same as some people believe it is not worth it to fully commit to the relationship and compromise...
Love is easier when both are looking in the same direction.

Maybe Poland is still very catholic and conservative and we still somehow believe that a woman should be married and start family around her 30's and not much later. I know that nowadays this attitude in UK and Ireland sounds ridiculous and I understand it. Women in other countries got financial independence faster so there is more time to have fun in life before one wants to start a family. And then they say that Polish women love changing nappies and cooking for their husbands (Only partly true but I don't mind this opinion at all). Apart from negative aspects of it such as 'ticking clock' and lots of pressure on women ('I must get married before 30 or I will be seen as a failure' or 'I will be too old and nobody will want to marry me') if you look at it from different angle it is not so bad...I am certainly not giving a green light to someone to dump me at the age of 30 If you are married you will work TWICE as hard to keep the relationship or fix it... you will go to marriage counselling if necessary and you won't give up on it easily...

And finally, yes! it is a lot about compromise and these small things that seem nonsense to you, such as eating octopus and sauerkraut as every day life with this particular person is so much about these little things... it is not because we are meticulous or don't know what is important and no! I don't like compromises, I hate them. If I had a choice it would always be 'My way or no way' I was spoiled as a child although I wasn't the only child in the family but I was first and the sensitive one. Also my dad passed away when I was 6 so our mom tried to compensate for it, sometimes I think she tried too hard as now it is really hard to adjust - amazing how much we bring from our childhood and family homes into our relationships without even realizing it! The same for him - completely spoiled, the only son of Polish overprotective mother. Ever heard of Polish mother in law, 'Polska Teściowa'? Try to deal with this one;-)
This is an English forum, so I'm not answering in depth, but generally, as a Pole, I completely dissociate myself from the overall message of your post. Who are the "we" from your post? These are just gender-based stereotypes; I am nothing like that, and my Polish mother-in-law is an open-minded woman, who brought up her son to be a great, open-minded person.
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  #82  
Old 22.11.2011, 22:28
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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If you believe in the theory of evolution...hierarchy... well husbands should be supported by the wife to lead the relationship. I am not suggesting a dictorship! The wife plays such an important role of being able to freely give her opinion without compromise but also needs to let the husband stir the ship thru the storm.
So, I went to my husband and told him I had been reading some marriage advice on EF. The theory of evolution, I said, has shown that husbands should lead and wives should support, although I would be free to play an important role and give my opinion, and he, as the husband, needs to be the one to steer the ship through the storm. As he is the husband, I asked him then how he feels about adjusting our marriage to fit the theory of evolution. Well, after we picked ourselves up off the floor, with tears of laughter still in our eyes, we discussed who was more capable steering through the storm and agreed that it was me. Having sailed through several storms together, we have a certain amount of routine and me steering is part of that. We are both sailors so perhaps I am taking it too literally.


Kristanez, I very much admire the gentle and diplomatic way you chose to respond to Aussie Aussie. Unfortunately, my feathers get quite ruffled when I am told that I belong in the pink box playing Barbie gets married because that is what girls do.

One thing that is not clear to me is what exactly your situation is. Are you both from the same country now living here or is one of you Swiss? This makes a difference, I think, especially when it comes to the main piece of advice being given: communication. My husband is Swiss. When we came back here, I made some typical missteps which, at first, he did not understand at all. Fortunately, we had both lived for over a year in Argentina, so we had a common reference point for cultural differences and problems. I could then explain what had happened in terms of a cultural problem we’d had in Argentina. This was important because he didn’t always see that it was a cultural issue. His first reaction, for example, to me not shaking hands, looking the person in the eyes and saying their name, was emotional, not intellectual. Talking about it helped him understand to a certain extent. It is like when foreigners use “Du” instead of “Sie”: the person understands intellectually that German is a difficult language and this is a language problem but the first reaction will not be intellectual but emotional.
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Old 22.11.2011, 22:41
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

See a marriage counselor. That's a good investment.
We invest money in other education areas but not in
learning about marriage. Having a successful marriage
requires qualities that can be learned.
Marriage makes a lot of sense: "together we are strong"
is the saying. And because life is not always a piece of
cake, we are better in it with a good partner.
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  #84  
Old 23.11.2011, 00:19
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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This is an English forum, so I'm not answering in depth, but generally, as a Pole, I completely dissociate myself from the overall message of your post. Who are the "we" from your post? These are just gender-based stereotypes; I am nothing like that, and my Polish mother-in-law is an open-minded woman, who brought up her son to be a great, open-minded person.
I don't think there is anything wrong with what I said. You are LUCKY to have open-minded mother in law and an ideal husband but I really mentioned polish mother in law more as a joke here. It happened to me, doesn't have to be your case.
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Old 23.11.2011, 09:39
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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I don't think there is anything wrong with what I said. You are LUCKY to have open-minded mother in law and an ideal husband but I really mentioned polish mother in law more as a joke here. It happened to me, doesn't have to be your case.
That's OK, I didn't want to sound harsh.
I took an issue with this particular sentence of yours:

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Maybe Poland is still very catholic and conservative and we still somehow believe that a woman should be married and start family around her 30's and not much later.
The we in that sentence does not cover me or my family and friends in Poland. There are people who still hold these views and they are very vocal, but such generalizations are unfair, wouldn't you say?
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Old 23.11.2011, 11:16
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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That's OK, I didn't want to sound harsh.
I took an issue with this particular sentence of yours:


The we in that sentence does not cover me or my family and friends in Poland. There are people who still hold these views and they are very vocal, but such generalizations are unfair, wouldn't you say?
Of course, but I said 'maybe' which I thought will show clearly that I rather analyze it than take it for granted. Poland is changing extremely fast, we are not the same people as 10 or 15 years ago and 10 years is nothing However, this attitude is still alive for majority, no matter how poor or rich, educated or not... and again I really don't see it as anything bad to start looking around when you rich your 30's.

I worked in 2 big Montessori preschools in Ireland with toddlers and most of moms were around their 40's. To be honest I was surprised, for a while Often it was their first child which in Poland would be considered late and it is a fact. I'm not judging just saying...

We are talking about communication, habits but also cultural and gender differences that influence our relationship - Did I say anything about stereotypes? Maybe, but I don't take it too seriously. I don't need them as I am inside the action. I see similarities and differences and learn from it but I think some of them are funny and as long as they are not hurtful or completely untrue I don't mind them

I also said many other things and wouldn't take this topic (stereotypes) further than that. I totally agree with everything that has been said in this thread. I said it surprises me how much we bring from our family homes into our relationships and mentioned 'Polska Tesciowa' as it can be a huge problem for many in my home country. Somehow American mothers-in-law are more relaxed and causing less problems... Any ideas why?

After all, not so open minded mothers can still bring up 'great, open minded people', really.
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Old 23.11.2011, 11:28
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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Of course, but I said 'maybe' which I thought will show clearly that I rather analyze it than take it for granted. Poland is changing extremely fast, we are not the same people as 10 or 15 years ago and 10 years is nothing However, this attitude is still alive for majority, no matter how poor or rich, educated or not... and again I really don't see it as anything bad to start looking around when you rich your 30's.

I worked in 2 big Montessori preschools in Ireland with toddlers and most of moms were around their 40's. To be honest I was surprised, for a while Often it was their first child which in Poland would be considered late and it is a fact. I'm not judging just saying...

We are talking about communication, habits but also cultural and gender differences that influence our relationship - Did I say anything about stereotypes? Maybe, but I don't take it too seriously. I don't need them as I am inside the action. I see similarities and differences and learn from it but I think some of them are funny and as long as they are not hurtful or completely untrue I don't mind them

I also said many other things and wouldn't take this topic (stereotypes) further than that. I totally agree with everything that has been said in this thread. I said it surprises me how much we bring from our family homes into our relationships and mentioned 'Polska Tesciowa' as it can be a huge problem for many in my home country. Somehow American mothers-in-law are more relaxed and causing less problems... Any ideas why?

After all, not so open minded mothers can still bring up 'great, open minded people', really.
We really have a totally different view of Poland. To each their own, I guess.
The stock character of the interfering mother-in-law, parodied in Everybody Loves Raymond, is not unique for Poland.
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Old 23.11.2011, 11:36
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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The stock character of the interfering mother-in-law, parodied in Everybody Loves Raymond, is not unique for Poland.
You raaaaaaaang?

I have a couple of German monster-in-laws (mine and of friends of mine) to prove it's not the fault of the Polish!
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Old 23.11.2011, 11:41
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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See a marriage counselor. That's a good investment.
We invest money in other education areas but not in
learning about marriage. Having a successful marriage
requires qualities that can be learned.
Marriage makes a lot of sense: "together we are strong"
is the saying. And because life is not always a piece of
cake, we are better in it with a good partner.
That's a pretty basic and generalized statement. I know no one and I mean absolutely no one that has gained anything positive from getting marriage counseling and I'm talking about double digits. Fact is, by the time most couples seek advice, it's way too late. Affairs have been had, irrevocable differences made clear, maybe even domestic violence involved or some kind of addiction to alcohol or anti-depressants.

Marriage counselors just soak up the vibe in the room and play it back at a different speed. Their opinions won't change the way your heart or soul feels about the other person. At best you'll feel appeased, at worst resentful. If the counselor is a woman, the guy will try and schmooze her over to his point of view, vice versa and the woman will no doubt perform the "Doe eye" routine.
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Old 23.11.2011, 11:52
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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Fact is, by the time most couples seek advice, it's way too late.
I was forced to consult a marriage counselor before I got married, and I can assure you I learnt nothing from it. I have to add, it was ordered by the church.

They were trying to brain wash me against birth control, that I absolutely MUST get children as soon as possible, that a fight is an absolute NO-NO (if the guy is smouldering you, you just take it as a woman and don't complain) and that sex is something very important but you shouldn't talk about it.

I managed to shock a group of 10 extremely catholic couples that I don't intend to have children and that I was not put on earth to breed like a rabbit. So stamp my "I WAS HERE" diploma and let me out. By the time they started singing at dinner, I was about to pack my stuff and jump out of the window. I'd have converted to anything just to get out.

I went to church marrige camp and barely made out alive... One thing is for certain: it made me and OH much closer because we stood together against the horror of sect brainwashing.

Brrrrrrr... *nightmares*
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Old 23.11.2011, 11:57
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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You raaaaaaaang?

I have a couple of German monster-in-laws (mine and of friends of mine) to prove it's not the fault of the Polish!

I know I never said it doesn't happen elsewhere . Sometimes I think the lady from "Everybody loves Raymond" is not too bad

You always raise your son for another woman. It's good to remember that. How can one be so selfish?
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Old 23.11.2011, 12:03
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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How can you raise your son for yourself only? You always raise him for another woman. How can one be so selfish?
Oh the horror monster-in-law stories I could tell at a candle light beer dinner...

Actually having a horrible mother, and as a result, a horrible mother-in-law, can spice up the marriage...

IT'S US OR HER! TAKE UP THE CANNONS, HUSBAND! WE GOING TO REVENGE THE POLISH! UNITED WE STAND!
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Old 23.11.2011, 12:11
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

My take on marriage counselling:

If it works, it's a heck of a lot cheaper and much easier than a divorce.

However, counselling only works when both partners truly want the marriage to work and are willing to compromise. It's definitely worth a try but as Assassin mentioned, the chances of saving the marriage are against you.

Despite the high "failure" rate, I'm still all for counselling. It's quite an insightful journey.
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Old 23.11.2011, 18:37
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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My take on marriage counselling:

If it works, it's a heck of a lot cheaper and much easier than a divorce.

However, counselling only works when both partners truly want the marriage to work and are willing to compromise. It's definitely worth a try but as Assassin mentioned, the chances of saving the marriage are against you.

Despite the high "failure" rate, I'm still all for counselling. It's quite an insightful journey.
I absolutely agree. You might not save the marriage but you might save yourself from making the same mistakes over and over again.
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Old 23.11.2011, 18:45
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

i think a big part of marriage counseling has to do with being in it together, so of course if both people aren't into it, it won't work. that being said, sometimes having an activity (marriage counseling, music/concerts, tennis, tantric meditation, whatever) that you do together is a good way to keep something between the two, even if (and you should) have other activities separate from the other.

protecting your marriage from anything is nearly impossible, there are tons of variables that happen in life and can change us all, and relationships in general. for us it's not so much about protecting what we have for what may happen, rather just trying to make the most of the time (however little it may be sometimes!) we have together each day.
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Old 23.11.2011, 18:52
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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I know I never said it doesn't happen elsewhere . Sometimes I think the lady from "Everybody loves Raymond" is not too bad

You always raise your son for another woman. It's good to remember that. How can one be so selfish?
Thank you for your PM. I would like to answer it but your inbox seems to be full. I'll try tomorrow!
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Old 23.11.2011, 19:51
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

Success would be the capacity to evolve with the other, stay honest and open regardless of the situation and to never take love for granted.

Many couples succumb to the lethargy of the ordinary. Should the strain of the extra-ordinary come along (special needs child, loss of employment, changing country etc) then it will become a make or break situation.

When all is said and done, if there is love, forgiveness, understanding, compassion and any remanents of attraction, it usually is for the long haul.
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Old 23.11.2011, 21:09
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

Marriage counseling, from a real marriage counselor (rather than somebody trying to brainwash people), before marriage is a big bonus. My wife & I had marriage counseling before we got married, as did one other couple in our close circle of friends. Two other couples did not have counseling before marriage. Guess which two of the four couples are still together?
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Old 23.11.2011, 21:27
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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Marriage counseling, from a real marriage counselor (rather than somebody trying to brainwash people), before marriage is a big bonus. My wife & I had marriage counseling before we got married, as did one other couple in our close circle of friends. Two other couples did not have counseling before marriage. Guess which two of the four couples are still together?
Oh please, are you serious ? marriage counseling before marriage ?

Hell, before marriage, you haven't even been barfed on yet by a burping baby or changed the nappies of a toddler who had too much spinach, or fought pregnancy pounds or a receding hair-line and ordered your bi-focals and heard about the fabulous young new hottie who has just been hired or the dashing director who has invited her out to lunch, and you need marriage counseling ?

If one even thinks they're going to have existential problems, skip the whole deal.. why walk down the aisle ?

As for religious mariage counseling, if I hear one more time in my life about the wonders of a truly good marriage because it's made up of two christians, I shall gag.
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Old 23.11.2011, 21:39
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Re: How do you protect your marriage through transition?

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As for religious mariage counseling, if I hear one more time in my life about the wonders of a truly good marriage because it's made up of two christians, I shall gag.
It's about things in common. Two devout Christians have a lot in common, just like two sport fanatics, two academic thinkers, two travellers, etc....

Opposites may attract but it's the common bond that keeps people glued happily together.
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