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  #101  
Old 15.12.2011, 11:59
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Re: Hygiene at doctor's practice

guess what... yesterday I went with my son to the paediatrician (ie another doctor, but with shiny and clean new practice - very "decorous" indeed).
the nurse who drew his blood was also NOT wearing gloves *sigh*
I confess that without the constructive comments which really helped me put this "habit" in perspective I might have jumped at her throat
so THANKS to all who contributed in a positive way to this thread for saving her life

on the other hand, the doctor was sooo nice and humane. realising that my son was scared about the blood drawing (due to a previous traumatic experience - nothing to do with gloves, though) he was incredibly gentle and funny and patient. result: it went quickly and smoothly and my son was proud of himself and won't ever be scared again.

so I've decided that I will accept this "habit" in whatever practice I land in the future, because, as someone was pointing out, the human aspect is just as important and was completely ignored where we lived before (and where everybody was wearing gloves )
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  #102  
Old 15.12.2011, 12:05
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Re: Hygiene at doctor's practice

Getting away from food to things medical...

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1. don't choose an HMO or GP-model with your health-care provider. Most general practitioners (as is the case all over the planet, if you ask me) don't know squat.
I hear this all the time, mostly from my Swiss neighbors, so it's not just a comparison to medicine in other countries. In general, the reputation (general perception, mind, not necessarily reality) seems to be that a Swiss GP isn't good for much other than flu shots, and should not be counted on for a diagnosis.

(My own limited experience bears this out, but then I live in the back of the beyond where I would imagine few doctors who are good enough to have other options would want to practice. So I hesitate to generalize.)

May I ask, what is a Swiss GP's education?

And what is a Dr. Med. Prakt.? (Which is what my doctor is, which may be part of the problem. Nice person, but...)
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  #103  
Old 15.12.2011, 14:37
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Re: Hygiene at doctor's practice

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May I ask, what is a Swiss GP's education?
End of term photo...
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  #104  
Old 15.12.2011, 15:30
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Re: Hygiene at doctor's practice

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Don't choose an HMO or GP-model with your health-care provider. Most general practitioners (as is the case all over the planet, if you ask me) don't know squat.
I hear this all the time, mostly from my Swiss neighbors, so it's not just a comparison to medicine in other countries. In general, the reputation (general perception, mind, not necessarily reality) seems to be that a Swiss GP isn't good for much other than flu shots, and should not be counted on for a diagnosis.
Not in my experience. We go to an HMO GP here in Basel who's every bit as good as any GP I've known. Friendly, helpful and knowledgeable.

I wonder if the attitude you encounter is down to folks not being happy when their own views are not supported by the GP. Certainly it's common in France, where a patient will only be happy after a GP visit if he's prescribed lots of drugs, particularly antibiotics, which many french people still believe are a cure for everything, including the common cold. If one doctor doesn't prescribe, they'll often go elsewhere, shopping around until they find one who will.
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  #105  
Old 15.12.2011, 16:22
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Re: Hygiene at doctor's practice

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Not in my experience. We go to an HMO GP here in Basel who's every bit as good as any GP I've known. Friendly, helpful and knowledgeable.

I wonder if the attitude you encounter is down to folks not being happy when their own views are not supported by the GP.
Especially as everyone is now an expert and knows more than the doctor thanks to the internet
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  #106  
Old 15.12.2011, 16:28
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Re: Hygiene at doctor's practice

Ace 1 this 'shopping around until you hear what you want to hear' is very prevalent in CH too, and costing 10000s which is why they are trying to encourage more people to have an 'official' GP whom you visit first. This shopping around was already very much the case when I was a child here in the 50s. One reason why a very good friend of mine and excellent GP in the UK just didn't want to work in CH.

If a my GP tells me that my weight is not helping the arthritis in my knees, I can tell her/him he doesn't know what s/he's talking about, and go and find another who'd say it wouldn't make much difference. Or I can listen and try and reduce my weight as it does make absolute sense- even if it hurt my pride at the time. If I smoke 1 packet a day and keep getting bronchitis and having to take antibiotics, and s/he says my smoking is making things much worse and another does of antibiotics won't help - I can do the same, etc, etc.

Last edited by Odile; 15.12.2011 at 17:52.
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  #107  
Old 27.01.2012, 16:49
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Re: Hygiene at doctor's practice

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May I ask, what is a Swiss GP's education?

And what is a Dr. Med. Prakt.? (Which is what my doctor is, which may be part of the problem. Nice person, but...)
Sorry to raise a 2-months old thread.

Dr. med. prakt. means a practicing doctor in human medicine. Usually, this is followed by the medical subroutine, which for GP (Hausartzt) would be "Algemeine Medizin" (general medicine) or "Innere Medizin" (internal medicine).

In Switzerland, the basic medical doctor degree takes six years. Usually, medical doctors will then continue to specialize in a medical subroutine, of which algemein medizin is one. This typically will take another 5 to 6 years. For GPs, this is 3 years "Allgemeine Innere Medizin", and 2 years of different educational modules leading to GP or Internist in the Hospital. Therefore, the Swiss GP has a University (Fachhochschule) education of at least 11 years. And yes, this is on par with any US or UK education.

For more information, see the Swiss Institute for Medical Education (german) http://www.fmh.ch/bildung-siwf/weite...e_medizin.html
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  #108  
Old 03.09.2012, 11:24
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Re: Hygiene at doctor's practice

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I find it utterly bizarre that anyone should expect their food preparer to wear gloves. Do you wear gloves at home in your own kitchen? No, you don't, even if you're preparing food for guests. What you do is ensure that you wash your hands thoroughly before (and between) food handling activities. If it's good enough for home, why shouldn't it be good enough for a restaurant?

Don't forget that a chef wearing gloves can still wipe his face with them, or fail to change them between different tasks, or many other much worse scenarios. I'd much rather they focus on proper hand-washing, TYVM.
I spend a small fortune on disposable gloves, in my dental office, as I am rather neurotic, about this subject. My biggest pet peeve is the use of gloved hands, on a telephone or computer keyboard....YUCK! If a gloved hand is not used properly, there is not use to glove it, at all!

Some offices do use a mist machine, which disinfects the gloved hand, between procedures, like opening a drawer, or using a pen. This helps, but I still prefer to peel it off, and put on a new set...

In school, we learn Asepsis Technique. It is quite complicated, and all health professionals should know it.

In USA, OSHA (occupational safety and health association) demands we use disposables and barrier technique. The disposables are used here, but the barrier technique is not common practice. However, the bottom line is determined by the technique and execution of proper sterilization methods. If you see something, which bothers you, do not be shy to speak up. It is your health, and you are paying for a service!

Last edited by arrow; 03.09.2012 at 11:35. Reason: spelling
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  #109  
Old 12.09.2012, 12:17
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Re: Hygiene at doctor's practice

I had a similar problem once (also in Switzerland), in addition to not cleanning her hands I had blood comming out from the place she drawn the blood and in the middle of her lack of professionalism/panic she touched my blood and everything else, cleanned the blood without any disinfection, ...

Right after I was running in panic to my GP in france. He requested me to make some blood checkups and 6 months later again. He was mostly worried about the lack of professionalism of this lady with the disinfection of all medical devices in the medical office (it was a gynecologist).

Everything ended up to fine. I went beack to the doctor in geneva to receive my exams and also to tell the doctor what happen and she was not happy. Right after the appointment she called the assistent and closed the door....

Usually I try to make blood exams in a lab, never again with the doctor assistant. However I feel safer if they have no gloves, just because when wearing the gloves they feel protected and the chance of forgetting to change them between patients is high. If they don't wear glooves they are more proactive with the disinfection of their own hands before and after.

But food related is a nightmare both in Switzerland and neighb France. In France is even worse, besides they seem to be alergic to hand cream... they do the change, they pick up the bread, they put the bread on top of the change,...

Concerning MacDonalds and BurguerKing and others they also stoped with the gloves (at least in all europe), for the same reason nurses also stopped using them. In those fast-foods they clean their hands every xx time.
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  #110  
Old 18.09.2012, 23:31
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Re: Hygiene at doctor's practice

Hi
as a nurse lecturer in Vaud, this is definitely not how they are taught to take blood in the school.every nurse or doctor should use universal precautions to prevent infection,contamination.

However in saying this, as has been previously stated the risk is to the nurse not to you- she will be using sterile needles etc so you are no risking infection she is . Again as someone already stated palpating a vein can sometimes be difficult wih gloves on due to decreased sensitvity so even tho' it is not advised it is still seen in practice
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