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  #21  
Old 26.12.2011, 19:27
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If you're neither a relative, nor someone your friend has given doctors permission to talk to, then the doctors are doing exactly what they should - respecting the privacy and autonomy of your friend. It is a very sad situation, but as long as your friend is of sound mind, he makes these decisions for himself.

Having said that, you're a good friend to care so much. And no matter what you friend's wishes, you ought to be able to pose the hypothetical, or specific question to the gemeinde where your friend lives or to someone at the hospital - probably a social services type person. What happens after the death of a person making no arrangements and expressing no wishes. The tricky part could be that despite the fact that his wife has left him, if they are still married, the hospital or gemeinde may turn to her as next of kin. Maybe that would encourage him to give you some sort of decision making power.

I hope he will be around still when you return. Such a difficult situation.
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Old 26.12.2011, 20:07
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

Not "may" but for sure.
Only next of kin will be consulted.

Very well said edot.
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  #23  
Old 26.12.2011, 21:44
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

Someone has already mentioned that legally his wife may still be his next of kin. But does he have any other family? A parent? sibling? If so, are you able to make contact with them, to at least let the know what is happening? (If this option has not already been looked into.) If the wife is no longer leggally hte person to be contacted, then the closest living relative will be.

Last edited by biff; 26.12.2011 at 22:10.
  #24  
Old 26.12.2011, 21:52
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

Quote from official Swiss site:

Funerals: customs and arrangements

Customs and arrangements for funerals vary from one canton to another and often from one commune to another. For instance, all cantons allow cremation. Cremation expenses also depend on the canton, often on the commune, as well as on several other factors such as the type of burial. For reasons of public health, deceased persons must be buried in a public cemetery, unless permission has been given by the concerned canton for other arrangements. Normally, a body may be buried no earlier than 48 hours after the time of death. Your commune can give you further information on the correct procedure and arrangements for a funeral.

Hope this helps.
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  #25  
Old 27.12.2011, 06:18
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

The man in the bed is a grief stricken, pain racked man, not the man I knew, and certainly not thinking the way he used to...

After a bit of soul searching and an easier bit of research (thank you facebook) I found his family, they are, ironically, back in Switzerland living in the same town as the hospital he is in now. (an inspiring sign)

I have put myself in his healthy shoes and asked myself what would he do if it was me in his position?

I am meeting his wife and sons this morning, I think he would feel the same way as I concluded and that family does matter, no matter what has happened a last chance of reconciliation has at least got to be tried and his family must know that his time is very short.

What I am about to do this morning is put our friendship on the line, gambling that a 35 year marriage is more valuable than a 3.5 year friendship.

Wish them luck, this is not going to be easy for either of them, he is going to have to forgive and she, well who knows?

My job in this sad saga is to get them to try and remember the love they had when they 1st married and to put all recent events aside and to remember their vow

''Till Death Us Do Part'' !

If this doesn't work I could end up killing him pre-maturely, him leaving this world feeling 100% betrayed by everyone he ever trusted!
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  #26  
Old 27.12.2011, 07:08
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

Feel for you buddy

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If you die alone and pot-less who is responsible for you ?
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There are pauper graves in every town. So he has no need to worry he will be thrown away with the Tuesday refuse collection.
This answer might sound insensitive, but I think it is a factually correct and concise reply, sorry you took it otherwise.



You know your friend better, so it is your call whether to bring back the estranged wife back at this stage, the obvious flipside is it may make the emotional pain more severe due to proximity.

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I feel you should respect his wishes - if he doesn't care at all about his body, then that is OK is it not? Personally I feel that friends and loved ones should be cared for and loved when they are alive. What happens to me afterwards is not important to me at all. You need to talk to the Gemeinde, as you know everything here changes form K/Canton to K/Canton. Be there for him now- when he truly needs you.
Spot on, that would be my advice too, apart from trying to get his body to be put to some use, such as donating to research/transplants.

Once dead, that person is no longer there, it doesn't matter what they do with the body. Cremations are done to help the survivors to cope etc, and has nothing at all in it for the dead. If I were in your position I would spend every penny and every moment of time I could spare toward making him happy/less miserable while he is alive and thinking, and withdraw once he stops thinking/feeling.
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  #27  
Old 27.12.2011, 15:04
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

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I am meeting his wife and sons this morning, I think he would feel the same way as I concluded and that family does matter, no matter what has happened a last chance of reconciliation has at least got to be tried and his family must know that his time is very short.
Good luck dude. I don't know how old his sons are, but they at least, maybe only down the road, will appreciate a gentle foot in their rears to get them to their father's bedside before he passes. Getting in the middle of family business as an outsider is difficult at best, but take heart, I believe you are doing the right thing.
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  #28  
Old 27.12.2011, 16:43
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

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Good luck dude. I don't know how old his sons are, but they at least, maybe only down the road, will appreciate a gentle foot in their rears to get them to their father's bedside before he passes. Getting in the middle of family business as an outsider is difficult at best, but take heart, I believe you are doing the right thing.
It is done !

1 x man is reunited with his estranged wife
2 x sons have a father once more, albeit for only a short time
2 x childhood best buddies are best buddies again
1 x soon to be corpse is going to rest with his ancestors
1 x soon to be corpse can leave this world knowing his best buddy will look after his wife and family
1 x project and pitch delivered on-time, under-budget and very gratefully received
1 x guy who found out why Pride is called a sin
1 x guy can go on holiday and get pis*ed without being haunted
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  #29  
Old 27.12.2011, 16:47
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

That is really great news. I hope all goes smoothly from now on.

Losing someone near is always horrible, but the recriminations and regrets are hard to reconcile oneself with, even years later.

Thanks for caring.
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  #30  
Old 27.12.2011, 16:53
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

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That is really great news. I hope all goes smoothly from now on.

Losing someone near is always horrible, but the recriminations and regrets are hard to reconcile oneself with, even years later.

Thanks for caring.
Too true, that's what I sold to all
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  #31  
Old 27.12.2011, 19:53
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

Wow! Thanks for being brave enough to interfere. Many would have said that it would be politically incorrect and done nothing. It is good to know that your friend has found some peace before his passing.
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  #32  
Old 27.12.2011, 20:03
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

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Wow! Thanks for being brave enough to interfere. Many would have said that it would be politically incorrect and done nothing. It is good to know that your friend has found some peace before his passing.
It was nice to see him in peace at last, I will treasure the smile he gave me when I left forever
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  #33  
Old 27.12.2011, 20:08
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

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It is done !

1 x man is reunited with his estranged wife
2 x sons have a father once more, albeit for only a short time
2 x childhood best buddies are best buddies again
1 x soon to be corpse is going to rest with his ancestors
1 x soon to be corpse can leave this world knowing his best buddy will look after his wife and family
1 x project and pitch delivered on-time, under-budget and very gratefully received
1 x guy who found out why Pride is called a sin
1 x guy can go on holiday and get pis*ed without being haunted
God you are one truly amazing friend.
I'm so sorry your friend is in such a situation but if I was in that situation I'd want a friend just like you to be there for me.
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  #34  
Old 27.12.2011, 20:15
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

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God you are one truly amazing friend.
I'm so sorry your friend is in such a situation but if I was in that situation I'd want a friend just like you to be there for me.
I know he would have done the same for me, no big deal, you would probably find your friends would do the same for you, but lets hope not under the same circumstances !
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  #35  
Old 27.12.2011, 20:27
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

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God you are one truly amazing friend.
I'm so sorry your friend is in such a situation but if I was in that situation I'd want a friend just like you to be there for me.
... with the possible exception that I'd like my friend not to get on EF (or any similarly public platform) and post about his intervention, or at least not until long after.

I don't have the slightest problem with the original fact-finding purpose of this thread, and I realize that everyone deals differently with the necessity of making these hard decisions, but if there is ever any family drama at my bedside I know I would not want it broadcast on the internet or whatever we are all using by then.

Onei, maybe you'd rethink the last couple of posts? If you do decide they are a bit of an intrusion on your friend's privacy I'm 95% sure a PM to the mods would make them disappear. (only 95% because it's technically not in the rulebook - but I'd have done it when I was a mod.)
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  #36  
Old 27.12.2011, 20:33
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

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... with the possible exception that I'd like my friend not to get on EF (or any similarly public platform) and post about his intervention, or at least not until long after.
While Onei may have gone "public", I think he has shown all of us the true meaning of friendship. I don't think anyone knows who the person is, I certainly don't.
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Old 27.12.2011, 20:38
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

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... with the possible exception that I'd like my friend not to get on EF (or any similarly public platform) and post about his intervention, or at least not until long after.

I don't have the slightest problem with the original fact-finding purpose of this thread, and I realize that everyone deals differently with the necessity of making these hard decisions, but if there is ever any family drama at my bedside I know I would not want it broadcast on the internet or whatever we are all using by then.

Onei, maybe you'd rethink the last couple of posts? If you do decide they are a bit of an intrusion on your friend's privacy I'm 95% sure a PM to the mods would make them disappear. (only 95% because it's technically not in the rulebook - but I'd have done it when I was a mod.)
Mathnut, I would never have written anything without his consent, he has read most of the posts with me, he has even told me on occasion how to reply, it is quite difficult to find topics of conversation whilst your rotting away in hospital. He is a social network butterfly and has invested with me in many social network projects and totally loves it...

I hope no mods remove any posts, a real live story with a happy ending plays out, empathy was heartfelt by some along with us, one post in particular inspired the course of the final result.

I have often slagged of EF to him and we have sometimes been in stitches when I have read out truly pedantic and very bullying posts, the last few days have shown that some in EF have a heart, and some responses lightened a fading one..
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  #38  
Old 27.12.2011, 20:50
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I'm so glad things have worked out as they have. -sorry of course for your friend, but glad there will be some peace for him. You're a good friend too...
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  #39  
Old 27.12.2011, 21:02
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

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While Onei may have gone "public", I think he has shown all of us the true meaning of friendship. I don't think anyone knows who the person is, I certainly don't.
I don't, because I don't know who onei is. If I did (which someone on here probably does, it's a smaller country than people tend to think at first) there's a good chance I would know.

Onei's previous posts in this thread (e.g. "the man in the bed is... not the man I knew, and certainly not thinking the way he used to") do not really paint the same picture of close social-media collaboration that his last post does. To me it sounded very much as though he was considering acting without his friend's knowledge and possibly even against his friend's wishes ("gambling that a 35 year marriage is more important" etc.) I certainly did not have the impression that he was reading and discussing these posts with the guy as the thread unrolled. That's why I spoke up as I did.

If he says the friend is OK with this level of publicity though, then I'll take his word for it. I would be extremely uncomfortable with it but we're not all alike. (Thank goodness for that. )
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  #40  
Old 27.12.2011, 21:25
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Re: Death in Switzerland and possible following proceedures

I have not commented on this thread but Onei -you have turned the situation around and proved the power and meaning of a real friend..

I am sorry for your friend but he is a lucky man to count you as a real one.
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