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Old 31.03.2012, 20:08
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Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

Hello all,

Our two-weeks old son had a hard time fighting the jaundice and gaining his birth-weight back. From day 7, following our Hebamme's advice, we started to pump(with very low results) therefore we've introduced a bottle-formula by giving 50ml during each session (complementary to breastfeeding and whatever came from the pump). Eventually, one week later, our boy gained enough weight but now we are depending on the formula.

Our strategy is to breastfeed regularly (2-3 hrs) and if the baby is still hungry give him the bottle. One issue would be that he is a sleepy baby (falls asleep after 5'). The other issue is that right now the milk supply seems to be quite low - at least this is what we think.

What we are looking for is finding a way to increase the milk supply in order to meet baby's demand and remove the formula-bottle.

If you had a similar experience or can advice how to exit this vicious circle, we are happy to hear from you.

PS: we tried every single advice for waking him up during nursing time ... didn't work too well.
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Old 31.03.2012, 20:16
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

Perhaps talk to your nearest La Leche League helper:

Amaia Au 043 833 04 42 Zürich (es) Lotz Oggier, Alena Zürich 044 381 58 81 Zürich City (en/de/fr) Valente, Barbara Horgen 043 810 48 06 Horgen (en)
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Old 31.03.2012, 20:35
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

Tips to increase you milk supply are, drink allot, 3 litres a day is great, and spend time with the baby near you, specially co-sleeping, also feeding often helps. Apparently the baby's proximity does stimulate the body to produce more milk.

Regarding bottle dependency, although i never had to deal with this, i would say you doing it right, offer breast first, bottle only to supplement, and slowly if the baby falls asleep at the breast, do not bother to supplement.

I fed both of mine on demand, this meant if they wanted to feed 30 minutes or 3 hours after their last feed i would let them. I never timed a single feed or timed in between feeds. If you breastfeed on demand, not only will baby learn to depend only on breast but your supply will for sure increase.

Baby's grow to prefer bottles for 2 reasons. First, it takes less work to get the milk out of the plastic tit than mumy's breast. Second, baby milk leaves them feeling full up for longer. But at 2 weeks your baby is too young to have realised this, so you not too late.

I do not want to sound like a boring advocate for breastfeeding but all these things helped me, i really hope you can make it work.

Any questions feel free to PM me.
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Old 31.03.2012, 20:52
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

My case is slightly different, but I'll share it with you anyway.

My son had to go to neonatal ICU immediately after birth, and was fed through a tube for the first week of his life. As I very much wanted to breastfeed, I used an electric pump to stimulate my breasts and encourage milk production. At first the expressed milk was given to him through the tube, a week later he would suck a bit directly and complete through the tube, until he was strong enough to eat by himself.

I ended up breastfeeding for two years.

My advice would be to let your baby have the breast as often as he wants. Only stimulation will encourage your body to produce more milk. If you think he's not stimulating enough, complete each feeding with pumping your breast 'empty' and offers that in the bottle, not formula.

Good luck!
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Old 31.03.2012, 20:54
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

great advice. simply keep him close and the milk will come. but also, i'd try to pump regularly too just to stimulate it a bit faster, that's what worked for me
enjoy and good luck!
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Old 31.03.2012, 20:55
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

Isn't the whole thing about demand results in production? The more you bottle feed, the less your baby will drink from your breast, then your milk gets shorter and you have to bottle feed even more etc.etc. Not that I'm an expert, I never breastfed, but that's what I've read.
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Old 31.03.2012, 21:19
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

One of the most moving thing I ever saw was a documentary of adoptive mums, who have never been through the hormonal and physical changes of pregnancy, being able to breastfeed after a couple of weeks, thanks to the babies presence and formula being fed through a tube attached to the nipple, thus stimulating the breast into producing milk- formula being slowly withdrawn. Amazing. I'm afraid, partial formula feeding is likely to slowy bt surely reduce then stop milk production. Pumping to stimulate the breast, and use that milk to supplement as necessary is much more likely to work. I'd really seek support from a specialist professional of volunteer though.
Bonne chance - and really hope it works.
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Old 31.03.2012, 21:45
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

Thanks Mélusine,

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If you think he's not stimulating enough, complete each feeding with pumping your breast 'empty' and offers that in the bottle, not formula
What if the breast is already empty after nursing (we pumped and nothing more came) . Should we still pump even though for 10' long no drops came ?
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Old 31.03.2012, 21:52
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

Congratulations on your new wee family member

Breast feeding isn't quite as easy as it looks, but after a while you will find your own method that works. And everyone will do it a little differently.

For me a big thing that helped milk flow was long deep breaths and relaxing. You have to calm quite down, and really get into the "zen" zone.
And with the first baby, in the beginning I even sat in the same place in the house, just to get Into the Zone. By the third kid, I found it a lot easier to "switch off the world" and just let it happen.

Some may tell you that if he is falling asleep after 5 minutes, that he isn't hungry enough. But he may also fall asleep because of the "relaxing hormones" that are passing on to him. I think I used to keep the baby on at this stage, until they truly "fell" off- if yours can handle it- it sometimes hurts.
With the second baby, I used the dummy a lot more, because it just hurt a lot more. It gave my.. er... "bits" a rest...

At 2 weeks, every 2 hours might even be normal! I do remember that a midwife told me that I was feeding too much, with the first kid. I of course ignored her and in the end, my "little girl" has always made her own "growth curve" far above the 97% percentile on these. My kids ended up being 92cm, 91cm and 94cm on their second birthdays. They are giants

One of my favourite books was The Secrets of the Baby Whisperer. This had a table in it with the different types of baby cries, and what they meant. It also had a bit of baby- body language- what meant "sore tummy", what meant "i'm sleepy", and after a few weeks of deprived sleep parenthood, it helped me get back to basics.

Oh, and you are lucky that you are able to pump- i couldn't do this.. it hurt too much I couldn't relax.

To increase supply, just keep doing what you are doing- putting him on every 2 hours. It is good that you are bottling "after" the breast, if this is what you are choosing to do, but like the others said- baby will be fuller.

Don't "worry" so much about milk supply. The weird thing is that you cant see it. I don't have the worlds largest kazungas but I don't smoke (reduces milk supply), drank the wacky "Still Tee" (you can get this from the apotheke) and they were adequate for my lot.

Apparently, according to this, babies dont return to birth-weight until 2 weeks of age anyway. I think my third kid took a little longer, but I had less time to sit still and feed her (poor kid - its the story of her life though- mummy has less time, and at 3 years, she is now the most easy going)

Also, it is ok to cry- it also "helps milk flow" so i've been told- release of stress hormones & helps you relax.
It is also ok to not shower every day
AND ok to delegate ALL housework to hubby!
Feel free to sleep during the day too! You effectively ran 3 marathons 2 weeks ago (the birth) and your body needs time to recover.
Things will get back into a new rhythm in a few weeks or months.
Don't fret. This is a time of big change for everyone. Just let it happen. It will all be different in a week, and in a month.
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Old 31.03.2012, 21:55
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

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Thanks Mélusine,
What if the breast is already empty after nursing (we pumped and nothing more came) . Should we still pump even though for 10' long no drops came ?
Stimulation will still encourage more production, so do still try some gentle expressing. Some women find using a pump to be best , whilst others find gentle hand expression works better. Use whichever method works best for you, and try to stay relaxed. It is definitely not too late for you to be able to breastfeed entirely. :-)
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Old 31.03.2012, 21:58
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

Can I double thank Rangatiranui for all her sensible comments?
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Old 31.03.2012, 22:12
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

Congrats on the baby! It is all a learning curve and can seem daunting at the beginning.

I could never pump, at least not any real amounts. If I got 2 oz. out, that was a TON! I mostly would be able to get out 1/2 oz or so. Not everyone can do it. I probably didn't relax enough, as relaxing isn't my strong point!

But, one thing is pretty much a given - bottle feeding the baby will not help breastfeeding, at least at this early stage. If you need to do it for health sakes, by all means the baby needs it, but really the baby should be able to get enough from the breast. But, if they get too used to and dependent on a bottle, they might reject the breast as bottle is easier.

I give you a big thumbs up for trying and I hope you are able to get rid of the formula (it is RIDICULOUSLY expensive here, I think it is much cheaper in Germany).


Anyways, I think getting lots of rest (hah!) and drinking enough will be your best bets. I did BF all 3 of my kids, each one exclusively for the first 6 months - and it is an amazing experience! At least it was for me! It bewildered me looking at the baby growing and knowing that it was coming all from me!

Anyways, enjoy these magical first weeks with the baby, what a special time it is!
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Old 31.03.2012, 22:19
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

Both of mine fell off to sleep when very young after a couple of minutes. It sounds cruel but try not to have little one too snuggly and warm until he gets the hang of it. My La Leché league consultant also said that because he wasn't eating much it was exhausting for him to feed (when tiny) so another reason why he fell asleep - making it a vicious circle because he will only stay awake for longer once he's eaten more and got a bit stronger.

In the meantime, I was advised to not get him too warm whilst feeding (at the beginning for a few days I would take off his clothes and feed him in his vest although obviously do not let him get cold) - also try tickling his feet and gently blowing on him to keep him awake.

The truth is not all of us have gallons of milk, and both of mine were small and down at the bottom of the growth curve for the 18 months I fed them. But they were happy, healthy and full of fun so clearly whilst they were anything but overfed, it was right for them. Until your baby fails to thrive, you cannot say that you do not have enough milk - even though in my case I know I would have had a lot more sleep if only I could have fed them both a bit more.

Do consult a professional - my insurance paid for 4 hours of breast feeding consultant sessions. It was really worth it as particularly with a first child you really have no idea what is going on - nor why should you?

But above all be kind to yourselves. Your baby will thrive and you will clearly be wonderful parents whether or not he gets a bit of formula or not.

PS It's very early days to be pumping at all, let alone pumping successfully and getting out a decent amount.
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Old 31.03.2012, 22:33
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

Thanks ecb,

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Do consult a professional - my insurance paid for 4 hours of breast feeding consultant sessions. It was really worth it as particularly with a first child you really have no idea what is going on - nor why should you?.
Will do, not sure about procedure though, do you go via the Hebamme or Pediatrician ?
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Old 31.03.2012, 22:35
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

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Thanks ecb,



Will do, not sure about procedure though, do you go via the Hebamme or Pediatrician ?

My hebamme was a consultant .. so I used her. Ask both dr and hebamme (but try to check if the person they are recommending is someone they have actually had a patient use and find to be useful).
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Old 31.03.2012, 22:38
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

Hang in there!
My son taught me that breastfeeding is totally a learned-art.
For many women and babies, it 'd take a lot of time and some heartbreaking moments.

In most cases, milk supply will increase with persistence stimulation.
When a baby is not interested in going to the breast, try using a breast pump instead.

We tried quite a few tricks ourselves to wake him up:
• Tickling baby’s foot
• Tapping underneath the chin
• Putting water-soaked cloth on the head

We mixed breast-feeding and bottle-feeding (with both expressed milk and formula) ourselves. Don’t worry about relying too much on formula nutritionally for now but try to develop a good breast-feeding routine.

With mixed feeding, one important thing to know is that you have to watch out for nipple confusion.
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/baby/bre...ppleconfusion/

With my son, we resorted to Medela Calma to cure his nipple confusion.
http://www.medela.com/IW/en/breastfe...ng-device.html
We had to throw away pacifiers and other teats and used Calma exclusively for bottle-feeding.

Good luck!
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Old 31.03.2012, 22:44
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

Indeed, the basic insurance has to pay for 10 visits of the midwife and 4 from a lactation consultant.

It's normal to express less milk with a pump than in you baby's mouth. The machine is less efficient, so it helps if your baby is close to you. But even if pumping does not express that much milk, it stimulates the breast anyway and that's the point of it.

It might sound a bit harsh, but you should try to prevent your baby from falling asleep too fast when eating. Not always easy, I know, but try tickling him, blowing on his face, changing his position, etc.

And whatever the docs tell you, if you have to breastfeed every 30 min, so be it! I fed my little preemie boy 12-14 times a day for his first two months. It was a bit exhausting, but worth it in the end!
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Old 31.03.2012, 22:44
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

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Both of mine fell off to sleep when very young after a couple of minutes. It sounds cruel but try not to have little one too snuggly and warm until he gets the hang of it. My La Leché league consultant also said that because he wasn't eating much it was exhausting for him to feed (when tiny) so another reason why he fell asleep - making it a vicious circle because he will only stay awake for longer once he's eaten more and got a bit stronger.

PS It's very early days to be pumping at all, let alone pumping successfully and getting out a decent amount.
A doctor I know, had her own very sleepy little newborn last year. Her solution was to breast feed, then to supplement with expressed milk which she fed to her baby through a plastic, disposable syringe ( obtainable at a pharmacy) gently dribbling the milk into the babe's mouth. This avoided the baby developing the sucking technique that is used with any bottle teat. After about 3 weeks, he was alert enough to just have the breast.

Only small amounts were needed ( from memory, I know it began with 1 mil and increased to 5-10 mils for some time.) The baby is now a happy, energetic little one, who began solids at a bit over 6 months. No bottle ever bought.
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Old 31.03.2012, 23:05
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

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A doctor I know, had her own very sleepy little newborn last year. Her solution was to breast feed, then to supplement with expressed milk which she fed to her baby through a plastic, disposable syringe ( obtainable at a pharmacy) gently dribbling the milk into the babe's mouth. This avoided the baby developing the sucking technique that is used with any bottle teat. After about 3 weeks, he was alert enough to just have the breast.

Only small amounts were needed ( from memory, I know it began with 1 mil and increased to 5-10 mils for some time.) The baby is now a happy, energetic little one, who began solids at a bit over 6 months. No bottle ever bought.

Well strange you should say so because something very similar happened with my first. I had to feed him from a teaspoon (dribbled into the mouth). I used breast milk and a couple of spoons was good going. This was because he was so exhausted, he simply wouldn't open his mouth or even realised he was interested in feeding. After a couple of days he was much more alert and slowly but surely he advanced to actual feeding. He also had cranial sacral therapy - did it work? I don't know for sure but he certainly started to thrive after a few days.

I was also told that a small plastic beaker or cup is good, but I found a spoon was fine. We dipped it into boiling water to make sure it was good and clean. The advice for a spoon or a beaker was exactly so as not to develop too much of a reliance on a bottle teat.

He was born at home so I had minimal intervention/involvement from doctors etc. It probably would have played out quite differently (but just as successfully) if we had been in hospital.
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Old 31.03.2012, 23:14
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Re: Breastfeeding strategy/tips needed to drop baby formula

There has been a lot of good advice given here already, so I would just like to add:

http://www.buybuybaby.com/product.as...88495&RN=7062&

I know you already have bottles, but the bottles in the link above are designed to really simulate a mothers nipple. These are much more useful when you need to switch between bottle and breast so the baby doesn't get "lazy" or used to the easy bottle nipples. It also makes it easier for the baby to keep latching on to the mother's nipple when it is time to breastfeed.

My sister used these for the entire first year as she worked full-time. She would breastfeed in the morning, and when she came home for lunch and at night. All other times the baby was fed expressed milk (usually pumped the previous day) in these bottles, and she never had any trouble getting baby to latch on to her.

Good luck! And TRY try try not to stress too much about it... stress is counter productive!
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