Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 04.04.2012, 00:41
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Baden
Posts: 14
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
vivo has no particular reputation at present
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Mabern
Thank you for clarifying 2 primary things (1) I need to find a place to live (2) then the local school board decides where the children will be placed.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04.04.2012, 00:43
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Baden
Posts: 14
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
vivo has no particular reputation at present
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Writer’s block - Thank you for breaking down the various stages of schooling. This really helps!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04.04.2012, 00:47
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Baden
Posts: 14
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
vivo has no particular reputation at present
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Bunbury
The timing of your question (what is "Berzikschule"? Is that Gymnasium?? and what is "sec"?") was excellent. Your question generated a lot of very useful information and clarity for everybody. I have certainly learnt a great deal.



Thank you all for your valuable contribution!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04.04.2012, 00:58
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Baden
Posts: 14
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
vivo has no particular reputation at present
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Noella - Sharing your real-life experience is a really encouraging and a blessing! Thank you
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04.04.2012, 00:59
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Baden
Posts: 14
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
vivo has no particular reputation at present
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Bunbury
The timing of your question (what is "Berzikschule"? Is that Gymnasium?? and what is "sec"?" was excellent. Your question generated a lot of useful information. I have certainly learnt a great deal. Thank you all for your valuable contribution! Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04.04.2012, 01:10
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Baden
Posts: 14
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
vivo has no particular reputation at present
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

FZS
Thank you for the info about the RIK.
Just to clarify my understanding, is this RIK year spent learning only German? I guess that this is the Immersion program, right? Also, do you need to go via the local school board to gain entrance into the school or do you need to find one privately?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04.04.2012, 01:21
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Baden
Posts: 14
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
vivo has no particular reputation at present
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Amch,
You are absolutely right in saying that it is critical for children get the full support of their parents in their school work. Hence we are keen for the entire family to integrate and learn the German language.
If I understand you correctly, you mentioned that, there is a canton based “standardized test” (in Maths, French and German) in comparison to the Bezirk exams. Do you mean at the end of the RIK year? Please can you expand on this statement?
Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04.04.2012, 09:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 6,504
Groaned at 129 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 7,882 Times in 3,674 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Quote:
View Post
JanerMacP

Thank you – I have pencilled Turgi in my list. I will need to find out about the schools in the area.
I would not recommend Turgi at all as a village for your family.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Mrs. Doolittle for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 04.04.2012, 09:17
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 6,504
Groaned at 129 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 7,882 Times in 3,674 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Quote:
View Post
It is not easy to find a house/apartment for 5 people around Baden. You might not be able to be very picky if you want space :-) Use homegate to see what is available. The villages are really nice though, and are used to having foreign children at the schools.
Your success in Baden in finding housing very much depends on your housing budget. A lot of expats with generous budgets have driven up the rent prices in Baden. Their children often attend ZIS Baden and they want to live near the school. There is not a lot of affordable family housing left in Baden.

As for villages, some are more open than others and just because they are open does not mean they have experience with children who need to learn German.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Mrs. Doolittle for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 04.04.2012, 10:29
gva
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Quote:
View Post
Bunbury,
Regarding names of schools, these are different in every canton!

In Aargau, after five years of primary school, children are sent (for four years) either to the
-Bezirksschule (heading for the Kantonsschule, the academic path, known elsewhere as Gymnasium),
- Sekundarschule (leading to demanding apprenticeships) or
- Realschule (leading to practically-focused apprenticeships).

If they are doing very well at one type of school, they can take a exam to move up to a more demanding school.
Writer's block
Experience from an (expat) friend of mine living near Baden: His kid had very good marks in the french schooling system when they moved. He entered 4th class and two years later was not allowed to go to the Bezirk Schule, because his (still) fair German brought down his marks and he wasn't amongst the 25% best ranked. The exams to change track are very, very difficult and there are only very few succeeding to change.

Given that job (or rather: income) perspectives in "lower" tracks are rather poor (compared to his parent's education and job) for those who don't get into Bezirk/Kanti and then University, my friend decided to move over the border to Germany. There his kid was admitted to the Gymnasium (highest education) without problems. He will then later likely go to university and then probably later become an expat in CH ;-)

The 25% quota (this varies a bit by canton but not much) is just a political and economical decision. The argument is that high education has a cost and demand may vary strongly depending on the economy. In other countries, such as France or Germany the fraction of the population with highest degree is much higher. Therefore they're swamping now the swiss labour market.

In CH, locals feel (understandably) disadvantaged given that afterwards, expats are imported to occupy skilled posts their own kids were not allowed to be tracked on.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 04.04.2012, 10:41
ecb's Avatar
ecb ecb is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: out n about - it's summer!
Posts: 2,199
Groaned at 8 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 3,566 Times in 1,322 Posts
ecb has a reputation beyond reputeecb has a reputation beyond reputeecb has a reputation beyond reputeecb has a reputation beyond reputeecb has a reputation beyond reputeecb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Quote:
View Post
Experience from an (expat) friend of mine living near Baden: His kid had very good marks in the french schooling system when they moved. He entered 4th class and two years later was not allowed to go to the Bezirk Schule, because his (still) fair German brought down his marks and he wasn't amongst the 25% best ranked.
I've got to second this - I know of several ex pat families whoose children are high performing in their home country system and who simply time the change to local Swiss school badly meaning that their child's German simply isn't good enough to do justice to their other academic abilities.

Or in another case, an allowance was given for the girl having only recently learnt German (been in CH for less than 2 years) so she was allowed to go to Sek (Bezirk schule in BL - the top level school), but within a few months she was getting overwhelmed by it and her parents moved her to an international school. Her German was simply not up to the level to enable her to achieve like her peers (and as her parents knew she should be able to) and her marks were very much lower than the other classmates - mostly because of marks being lost for poor grammar/sentence construction etc. She is now thriving in an international school.

I do hope it works out for you but it is a difficult time to move (age 9/10) and you need to be flexible to give your child the best possible chance.

Last edited by ecb; 04.04.2012 at 11:08.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ecb for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 04.04.2012, 10:58
quark's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Aargh-Ow!
Posts: 1,321
Groaned at 12 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 1,838 Times in 756 Posts
quark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Quote:
View Post
I would not recommend Turgi at all as a village for your family.
Any reason?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank quark for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 04.04.2012, 15:01
fzs fzs is offline
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Baden
Posts: 23
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
fzs has no particular reputation at present
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

vivo, yes the RIK is mostly about learning German. they got math lessons, cooking or handwork and some sports, thought. They get to know Swiss conventions, customs, etc. too. A few weeks ago they went together to the local post office to practice how to post a letter / parcel. They've got about 20 lessons / week in school but lots of homework, practicing, and frequently write tests.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fzs for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 04.04.2012, 18:49
lychee's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: AG
Posts: 33
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
lychee has no particular reputation at present
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

1. Other nice villages near to Baden are Mellingen, Birmenstorf, Rütihof (part of Baden), Dätwil (also part of Baden).
2. Not sure what it means about 25%?? To qualify to go to Bezirkschule, one must have at least 5 in Math, German and Heimatkunden. Those with 4-5 go to Sek., the rest is heading to Real. The decision is being made in January. In 5th grade, there are a lot of tests, almost every week. There are tests from the main subjects, test from the Kanton and from Baden. The test from Kanton is just to see where the kids are in relation to the whole Kanton. The points do not count towards going to the next schools. My daughter has just had tests for the whole 5th grade in Baden schools last week, in German and Math.
In my opinion, if one is not good in German, one should not be allowed to move on. How can you do well in math if you cannot understand the questions? How can you answer science questions, if you do not know German?
Last school year, there are 2 students who qualified but Bezirkschule in Baden did not accept them because the place was full. They were the 2 kids whose houses were farthest from Baden. The Bez in Baden committee relocated the kids to Mellingen. I think it is not because they have quota or anything like that.
3. The system will change from 1-5 primary school years to 1-6 in the next 2 years.
4. There are quite a number of kids who are 11 or 12 years old in 4th or 5th grades.
5. There are a lot of kids in public school who struggle with German. There are those who speak Italian, French, eastern Eu languages at home. Also, there are a lot of Swiss-German speakers who struggle in German. That is my observation from my children's classes. Do not feel too bad about not knowing German. If your child is willing, with your support, he will make it. This is my inputs rearding the primary school here....
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank lychee for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 04.04.2012, 19:06
gva
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Quote:
View Post
2. Not sure what it means about 25%?? To qualify to go to Bezirkschule, one must have at least 5 in Math, German and Heimatkunden. Those with 4-5 go to Sek., the rest is heading to Real.
25% is the fraction which makes it to the Bezirk Schule. The rest goes to Sekundar and Real (the lower tracks).

It's not a written down, but a de facto, quota. Statistics on % of 19-years old having the Matura (university access) by canton - Aargau has 15.3% (which means 84.7% of the 19y old do NOT get access to University - some drop out of the 25% making it to the Bezirk - it's really tough!)

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/d...ank/05/01.html

Personally, I will ensure that my kids do not get limited in their education and career by such stupid barriers which will track them for their rest of their lives when they're 9-11 years young. (which will imply private or non-swiss schooling)
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 04.04.2012, 19:16
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Zug
Posts: 141
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 60 Times in 41 Posts
clonskeagh has earned some respectclonskeagh has earned some respect
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

In Zug I believe the quota is around 18% who get into Gymnasium after 6th grade.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank clonskeagh for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 04.04.2012, 19:30
lychee's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: AG
Posts: 33
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
lychee has no particular reputation at present
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Get it! I still think that in Baden it is different. In my daughter's class, there are 23 kids. 7 (3 boys, 4 girls) will go to the Bez. (Her teacher mentioned that she didn't have a strong class this year.) In Dätwill school, I think the number is roughly the same. In Tannegg, 10 out of 12 kids will go to the Bez. We (the parents) think it is more about the parents, if the parents have university degrees, the kids will go in those directions. If the parents do not care, kids do not see the importance of higher education either. Sorry to generalize, but it's quite true.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank lychee for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 04.04.2012, 20:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 6,504
Groaned at 129 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 7,882 Times in 3,674 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Quote:
View Post
We (the parents) think it is more about the parents, if the parents have university degrees, the kids will go in those directions. If the parents do not care, kids do not see the importance of higher education either. Sorry to generalize, but it's quite true.
I don't agree. I know plenty of kids who went to university and their parents did not. University is not the right solution for all kids and the Swiss education system recognizes that, so instead of having drop outs you have kids who can still learn a trade, for example. This is not a bad thing.

It is also possible from the middle level (Sek) to pursue higher education.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Mrs. Doolittle for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 04.04.2012, 22:16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Aargau
Posts: 62
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 64 Times in 34 Posts
amch has no particular reputation at present
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

Non-native German at the Bezirk is, of course, an issue. After 2 years at the primary school here DS was fluent in both high German and the dialect, but the missing vocabulary has caused difficulties at the Bezirk this year. But a native English speaker would have a guaranteed 6 in English to compensate the average a bit :-)
If the child is motivated and disciplined, and you are able to support him, there is no reason to believe he won't be able to be successful in this system. Aargau places by grades and teacher recommendations, not exam results, a less stressful way than in Zurich. However, we see many boys who are just not mature enough at 11 or 12 to take on the responsibility. The hardest adjustment for DS has been in the subjects with only a couple of tests per semester: Biology, History, etc. You have to study without anybody checking your work or giving you grades, and then in a few months there is a test, and grading is really strict!
My coworker, who did a mechanic apprenticeship many years ago, had a class reunion last year. Most people who studied with him went on to Fachhochschule or other further education. It just takes longer, but motivated people after the Sec are still completing their education and are successful.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amch for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 04.04.2012, 22:34
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Aargau
Posts: 62
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 64 Times in 34 Posts
amch has no particular reputation at present
Re: Looking for a great place to Live/School in Aargau

And one more note: the local system is very different from one canton to another. Placement after RIK in Baden is based on the recommendation of the teacher there, and nobody has perfect German after they leave. The 1st Bezirk year, if your child ends up placed there, is tough for everyone, for foreigners and the Swiss. You have to monitor his German progress while he is at RIK, but also recognize that he'll struggle in the German-dependent subjects the first year or two. You could compensate by giving extra attention to French and Math (the 2 subjects considered hardest for local kids, but not dependent on your child's level of German as much). It is a game of averages. If your average falls below ?4 (not sure exactly), you have to go down to Sec. If you are at the Sec, and you can maintain a high average, you can move up to Bez with a loss of a year.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amch for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Great Britain - Worst Place to Live hoslo International affairs/politics 42 21.10.2010 13:56
What a great place to live... velocolo Daily life 61 27.05.2010 01:16


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0