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  #101  
Old 05.10.2012, 17:11
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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Anyway, I'd like you to explain, as a chemical engineer, exactly what form this energy is that we need to keep in balance around our bodies. And how do I measure it to know whether it's balance?
I think I may have answered some of this in my last post - so sorry if I repeat a bit.

The energy (there is more than one type, i.e. potential, kinetic...) that most of the therapies refer to is best compared to Kinetic energy. It is the energy that keeps all the body systems in motion.
<snip>
So that's a no, then, you can't explain, as a chemical engineer, exactly what sort of physical energy this is.

Thanks for clearing this up.
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  #102  
Old 05.10.2012, 17:24
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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So that's a no, then, you can't explain, as a chemical engineer, exactly what sort of physical energy this is.

Thanks for clearing this up.

umm.... Kinetic energy. 'Calories' from your food are like potential energy and how your body puts that to work is the kinetic energy and this 'working' energy is what most energy therapies are referring to.

I totally get that it is hard for some people to believe you can 'improve' or influence that energy in your body but do you really find it hard to believe that there is physical energy keeping all of your cells functioning?
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  #103  
Old 05.10.2012, 17:32
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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I totally get that it is hard for some people to believe you can 'improve' or influence that energy in your body but do you really find it hard to believe that there is physical energy keeping all of your cells functioning?
No, it's the supposed manipulation of the energy that's causing confusion, specifically, how it's "improved", and how humans "direct" it.
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  #104  
Old 05.10.2012, 17:45
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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umm.... Kinetic energy.
Bwahahahaha.

Thank you, you brightened up my afternoon.
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  #105  
Old 05.10.2012, 19:23
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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To be fair, there will be measurable transference of energy, I was looking for a video showing the the heat rising from the skin, but this other one shows just how easily this magical energy can be transferred, even to inanimate objects, such as the umbrella in the video. See how the persons face is magically imprinted on the umbrella through the mystical energy employed by reiki, truly there can be no rational explanation for what is happening in the video.

Well,honestly through a Video everything is possible,so ..maybe one could even find a rational reason,if he wanted to...but for the only time I tried Reiki,I have to say I felt something...maybe one can get more conscious of what kind of energy is involved by doing this kind of Treatments more often..but I do believe that can bring Benefits...?
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  #106  
Old 05.10.2012, 20:33
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umm.... Kinetic energy. 'Calories' from your food are like potential energy and how your body puts that to work is the kinetic energy and this 'working' energy is what most energy therapies are referring to.

I totally get that it is hard for some people to believe you can 'improve' or influence that energy in your body but do you really find it hard to believe that there is physical energy keeping all of your cells functioning?
Please surrender your engineering diplomas to the institutions that issued them - you clearly cheated the whole way through.

Cells, and thus the body, use primarily high chemical-potential molecules and potential gradients to store and distribute energy. There is no way to supplement those potentials with thermal convection. If there were, then when hungry, I could just stick my hand in the toaster, rather than eat the toast!!
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  #107  
Old 08.10.2012, 12:04
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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I don`t suppose you arrange your home according to Feng Shui?
Our apartment was designed according to Feng Shui as the architect is very interested in it and bases all his designs according to Feng Shui principles.

All well and good until I explained to him that the high concentration of steel in some inner circular load bearing walls actually concentrated any electro-magnetic radiation into a central point in the apartment rather than letting it flow outside.

Crap for wi-fi or DECT but he hadn't planned on us using it and ensured that there were sufficient cat5 coverage.

So, if you want to employ Feng Shui and remove "bad energy" from a place then make sure you understand the physics too.

I ought to add that I do not believe in any of that Feng Shui nonsense but we got the apartment as it's a great design.
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  #108  
Old 12.10.2012, 08:14
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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Because there's no control (i.e. some of the subjects in the test get treated by someone who just says they practice Reiki and they just make it up as they go along). This way, one can see whether Reiki is more effective than a placebo.

Additionally, anecdotal evidence ignores outside factors that may play a part in the 'success' of Reiki.

For example, paying large sums of money to a Reiki practitioner over time may make one feel that good was being done even though it wasn't sue to the actual Reiki itself.

Things like that basically.
Well Tom, maybe you saw the documentary by investigative journalists on the misdoings of the pharma industry on Arte 2 nights ago. Amazing what they came up with.

For example, how in the 1980s they were making clinical trials on various drugs without the consent or agreement of subjects concerned in the DDR. Nowadays, because of stricter regulation, their field of operation has expanded further eastwards and into Asia and South America.

The much revered and deieified Ethics Commission refused to comment and declined an interview. So much for ethics.

Nowadays much of the research work is given to independant research institues who recruit their own "guinea pigs". Anyone can apply to be a "guinea pig", and they are paid for their time and the risks they take.

One such person volunteering for trials on a regular basis admitted to being a diabetic, to taking part in as many as 8 trials at one particular time and to telling the researchers what he thought they wanted to hear. Presumably his revelations are included in the, much beloved by scientists, statistics and data. This being the case, anecdotes must provide as good a basis for research as some of the tests and trials research work is currently working with.

Oh yes, another fact that came to light is that of the 4000 medicines on the market at the moment, 40 are very effective, 40 work some of the time or for a limited time and the rest are ineffective.

Don't shoot me - I'm only the messenger.
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  #109  
Old 12.10.2012, 09:58
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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For example, how in the 1980s they were making clinical trials on various drugs without the consent or agreement of subjects concerned in the DDR. Nowadays, because of stricter regulation, their field of operation has expanded further eastwards and into Asia and South America.
Which companies are doing this today?

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Oh yes, another fact that came to light is that of the 4000 medicines on the market at the moment, 40 are very effective, 40 work some of the time or for a limited time and the rest are ineffective.
Do you have a link for this amazing "fact"?

Actually, some of it's probably true if you include all the cough medicines etc and the vast array of vitamin pills that the well feel they need to scoff.

Does your eighty include preventative drugs such as malaria prophylactics and drugs for immunisation?
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  #110  
Old 12.10.2012, 11:00
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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Well Tom, maybe you saw the documentary by investigative journalists on the misdoings of the pharma industry on Arte 2 nights ago. Amazing what they came up with.
And because it was on Arte2 you believe it all without question?

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For example, how in the 1980s they were making clinical trials on various drugs without the consent or agreement of subjects concerned in the DDR.
They? What do you mean, "they"?

If you think it's reasonable to extrapolate from unethical behaviour from state-run institutions in a communist-run police state and infer that the whole world works in the same way then I suggest you think again.
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Nowadays, because of stricter regulation, their field of operation has expanded further eastwards and into Asia and South America.
Rubbish. You been reading The Constant Gardener? Ask yourself this: what possible value could a pharma company have for trials that they have to hide? I mean, really think about it - the point of trialling drugs is to prove, to the regulatory authorities and the rest of the world, that they're safe, and then that they're efficacious, that their side-effects are worth the pain, and that their cost is worthwhile. How would an illegally-conducted trial on uninformed patients help towards any of that?

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The much revered and deieified Ethics Commission refused to comment and declined an interview. So much for ethics.
So much for asking stupid question, I suspect. "Refused to comment" may well have been "couldn't speak through the tears of laughter".

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Nowadays much of the research work is given to independant research institues who recruit their own "guinea pigs". Anyone can apply to be a "guinea pig", and they are paid for their time and the risks they take.
And your point is? Safety trials on healthy, informed, monitored, paid volunteers doesn't seem to be a bad thing. Perhaps you'd explain why it is?
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One such person volunteering for trials on a regular basis admitted to being a diabetic, to taking part in as many as 8 trials at one particular time and to telling the researchers what he thought they wanted to hear.
Idiots abound. His data would almost certainly have been discarded.
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Presumably his revelations are included in the, much beloved by scientists, statistics and data.
Doubtful. If his results showed a variation from the norm they would have been set aside for further detailed analysis and scrutinised to find the reason why. It would not have been difficult to pick up his signals, I suspect.
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Oh yes, another fact that came to light is that of the 4000 medicines on the market at the moment, 40 are very effective, 40 work some of the time or for a limited time and the rest are ineffective.
List them. ITYF that is a figment of somebody's overactive imagination.
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  #111  
Old 12.10.2012, 11:10
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

Drug trials are taken very seriously.

I know of one clinical trial for a new drug that was in the final stages of testing after years of research which was scrapped.

There was nothing wrong with the drug but the nurse administering the drug during the trial didn't read the label and gave ten times the permitted dose which caused a severe (but temporary) reaction in the patient.

The whole project was scrapped because of this.
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  #112  
Old 12.10.2012, 12:19
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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Oh yes, another fact that came to light is that of the 4000 medicines on the market at the moment, 40 are very effective, 40 work some of the time or for a limited time and the rest are ineffective.

Don't shoot me - I'm only the messenger.
What is the percentage of "alternative" remedies available for sale are effective?

I could go through every other point you make and just ask, well, how does it work in the alternative medicine industry?
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  #113  
Old 12.10.2012, 20:30
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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Presumably his revelations are included in the, much beloved by scientists, statistics and data. This being the case, anecdotes must provide as good a basis for research as some of the tests and trials research work is currently working with.
This...

We know that 2+2=6 is not true, yes? We can agree on that? Ok.

Now, given that we know that, and have agreed on that, then what you're argument is saying, is that because 2+2=6 is false, then 2+2=50 must be true.

Sounds pretty illogical, no?


So, the first answer, that happens to b incorrect, has absolutely no influence whatsoever on whatever another given answer is. You could be right, but you could also be very wrong. The mistake is in artificially restricting your parameters to black and white; reality has many, many shades of grey.

An observation, even an anecdotal one, can very well be developed into quantitative results, but proper data control and collection is required - something inherently lacking in anecdotal observation. Thus no, the 2000+ years of ''observation'' that supporters of alternative treatments like to cite, is in no way valid as proof of anything but human gullibility.

The range of treatments has been tested, and guess what, those that were actually shown to work, were absorbed into the field of... western medicine!!
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  #114  
Old 12.10.2012, 21:41
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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Thus no, the 2000+ years of ''observation'' that supporters of alternative treatments like to cite, is in no way valid as proof of anything but human gullibility.
The range of treatments has been tested, and guess what, those that were actually shown to work, were absorbed into the field of... western medicine!!
True that, but 5000+ years of observation clearly proves that powdered Tiger willies or Rhino horn works just so much better than Viagra.
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  #115  
Old 13.10.2012, 01:43
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

This is such a huge topic, many, many opinions! Could be discussed and some say argued till the end of time!

Message to the OP - Try a session and and see for yourself, from your own experience you can decide if you believe in it or not.

Always best to go to a recommended practitioner initially.

FYI - REIKI is covered by some Health Insurers as an alternative treatment.

Namaste
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  #116  
Old 14.10.2012, 12:02
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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And because it was on Arte2 you believe it all without question?


They? What do you mean, "they"?

If you think it's reasonable to extrapolate from unethical behaviour from state-run institutions in a communist-run police state and infer that the whole world works in the same way then I suggest you think again.

Rubbish. You been reading The Constant Gardener? Ask yourself this: what possible value could a pharma company have for trials that they have to hide? I mean, really think about it - the point of trialling drugs is to prove, to the regulatory authorities and the rest of the world, that they're safe, and then that they're efficacious, that their side-effects are worth the pain, and that their cost is worthwhile. How would an illegally-conducted trial on uninformed patients help towards any of that?

So much for asking stupid question, I suspect. "Refused to comment" may well have been "couldn't speak through the tears of laughter".

And your point is? Safety trials on healthy, informed, monitored, paid volunteers doesn't seem to be a bad thing. Perhaps you'd explain why it is?
Idiots abound.

His data would almost certainly have been discarded.
Doubtful. If his results showed a variation from the norm they would have been set aside for further detailed analysis and scrutinised to find the reason why. It would not have been difficult to pick up his signals, I suspect.

List them. ITYF that is a figment of somebody's overactive imagination.
a. Yes 90%.

b. They -Pharma industry.

c. No idea what the Constant Gardner is. Free of charge information. Trials with and use of prohibited substances and how these affect the body. Knowledge.

d. Just YOUR rather naive opinion.

e. Human nature being what it is - some people would sell their souls for money.

f. Maybe. Maybe not.

g. Lists have no meaning. Trial and error over years.
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  #117  
Old 14.10.2012, 12:22
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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Our apartment was designed according to Feng Shui as the architect is very interested in it and bases all his designs according to Feng Shui principles.

All well and good until I explained to him that the high concentration of steel in some inner circular load bearing walls actually concentrated any electro-magnetic radiation into a central point in the apartment rather than letting it flow outside.

Crap for wi-fi or DECT but he hadn't planned on us using it and ensured that there were sufficient cat5 coverage.

So, if you want to employ Feng Shui and remove "bad energy" from a place then make sure you understand the physics too.

I ought to add that I do not believe in any of that Feng Shui nonsense but we got the apartment as it's a great design.
Ja, it`s all in the "flow of life" and what makes you comfortable, and what works for you!
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  #118  
Old 14.10.2012, 12:29
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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Drug trials are taken very seriously.

I know of one clinical trial for a new drug that was in the final stages of testing after years of research which was scrapped.

There was nothing wrong with the drug but the nurse administering the drug during the trial didn't read the label and gave ten times the permitted dose which caused a severe (but temporary) reaction in the patient.

The whole project was scrapped because of this.
Tom. I DO believe you and am sure drug trials are taken very seriously. I do though think your faith in science and pharma is very touching if a little naive.

Because, the drug industry is basically a money making machine and, human nature being what it is, there will always be people who are more motivated by money, status and power than morals, ethics and the wellbeing of the sick. Some of these people probably have positions of power within the pharma industry and will manipulate certain things to their advantage as happens everywhere. Am sure that within your own radius of experience everything is as you claim but, as you don't have the overall view, don't think you are in a position to totally deny things outside your field of experience or what happens in other parts of the world.
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  #119  
Old 14.10.2012, 17:52
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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Which companies are doing this today?



Do you have a link for this amazing "fact"?

Actually, some of it's probably true if you include all the cough medicines etc and the vast array of vitamin pills that the well feel they need to scoff.

Does your eighty include preventative drugs such as malaria prophylactics and drugs for immunisation?
Sandoz and Hoechst were names mentioned

I don't do links because I don't know how. Anyway it's highly unlikely that companies go aroound broadcasting certain facts and posting them on internet.

Not "MY" 80. Lists don't prove anything. Trial and error over years.
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  #120  
Old 14.10.2012, 23:47
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Re: Beliving in Reiki?

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Tom. I DO believe you and am sure drug trials are taken very seriously. I do though think your faith in science and pharma is very touching if a little naive.
What's the alternative to faith in science? Science just allows things to be explained.

Why do you think it's better not to have an explanation?

How many peoples' families and friends would be dead today if it wasn't for scientific medical breakthroughs?

None of your alternative stuff has saved anyone's life.
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