Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 24.06.2012, 16:26
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tell me all about International Schooling! :) Good/ Bad and all in between

Quote:
View Post
However, all things said, the philsophy of education is the biggest difference. And, depending upon the base system (ie British or American) there can be a big difference between those and local schools.
First, if one only counts on school to learn a language, it doesn't work. Scandinavian might speak good english, but giving all the credit for it to the school system would be a big mistake. If one wants the children to get quite good at local language, free time activities are essential.

Then, international school following the IB are neither british nor american based, they are IBO based. It doesn't make any difference for the main lines.
I can't swear it is true for every single international school in Switzerland, but I know quite a few educational systems from inside and I don't see a major philosophical educational difference between local and international except for one: international expect students to all go to university to succeed, this idea being totally ridiculous to teachers of the Swiss system. In the class room, it's not that different and will depend more on the class dynamic, the teacher's personality and the working conditions than the school philosophy on paper.
__________________
Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 24.06.2012, 16:31
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 18
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
bradley has no particular reputation at present
Re: Tell me all about International Schooling! :) Good/ Bad and all in between

From the child's point of view, which is better - to feel happy and confident among peers but not perhaps achieving top grades academically, or to be stressed and isolated, with over-protective, fussy, pushy parents, who don't look beyond the report card grade?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 24.06.2012, 16:43
Textoch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas, USA (formerly Vaud, CH)
Posts: 1,201
Groaned at 25 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 3,058 Times in 937 Posts
Textoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tell me all about International Schooling! :) Good/ Bad and all in between

Quote:
View Post
From the child's point of view, which is better - to feel happy and confident among peers but not perhaps achieving top grades academically, or to be stressed and isolated, with over-protective, fussy, pushy parents, who don't look beyond the report card grade?
Are you saying that one describes the local school experience and the other describes the international school experience?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 24.06.2012, 16:47
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tell me all about International Schooling! :) Good/ Bad and all in between

I didn't read the comment as one versus the other. Just that University and academic education is not necessarily the best for every child. In the UK we have a situation where so many kids are pushed into Uni to study for ridiculous Degrees (mind you a friend of ours was a pioneer of the 'football hooligans studies, in the 70s) - not worth the paper it is written on ( and who are on the dole in huge numbers at the moment). A good apprenticeship is much better - to become a carpenter, jeweller, watch-maker, electrician, plumber, mechanic - the list is vast. With the chance later to continue studying to become a Master Craftsman, with a very good salary attached.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 24.06.2012, 17:03
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 18
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
bradley has no particular reputation at present
Re: Tell me all about International Schooling! :) Good/ Bad and all in between

Quote:
View Post
Are you saying that one describes the local school experience and the other describes the international school experience?
Not at all, there are both types of pupils in the same classroom, the difference is their own, their parents' and their teachers' aspirations. Not all children are at school to learn academics, graduate and go on to a degree course. Some are not motivated by learning, and just have a great social time in and outside the classroom. What about the streetwise ones, with great social skills who will make excellent wheeler-dealers, or the ones who waste their time at school because their parents have a family job lined up for them when they leave, or the spoiled brats flashing around their bling, treating their teachers as domestic staff.......
Mark Twain once said that school gets in the way of education!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bradley for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 24.06.2012, 17:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tell me all about International Schooling! :) Good/ Bad and all in between

Quote:
View Post
Mark Twain once said that school gets in the way of education!
ya, I agree with the "spirit" of your message, but still... Mark Twain wasn't a student in early 21st century school. Big difference.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 24.06.2012, 17:52
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: ZH
Posts: 987
Groaned at 24 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 1,344 Times in 501 Posts
arrow has a reputation beyond reputearrow has a reputation beyond reputearrow has a reputation beyond reputearrow has a reputation beyond reputearrow has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tell me all about International Schooling! :) Good/ Bad and all in between

Quote:
View Post
First, if one only counts on school to learn a language, it doesn't work. Scandinavian might speak good english, but giving all the credit for it to the school system would be a big mistake. If one wants the children to get quite good at local language, free time activities are essential.

Agreed. Would you not agree Switzerland poses a particular challenge, as one studies high German and speaks Swiss German. In Barcelona, there were Castellano and Catalan. Also, similar, but different languages. The Spaniards' friendliness helped ease the pain of learning their languages. (in our experience...)

Then, international school following the IB are neither british nor american based, they are IBO based. It doesn't make any difference for the main lines.
I can't swear it is true for every single international school in Switzerland, but I know quite a few educational systems from inside and I don't see a major philosophical educational difference between local and international except for one: international expect students to all go to university to succeed, this idea being totally ridiculous to teachers of the Swiss system. In the class room, it's not that different and will depend more on the class dynamic, the teacher's personality and the working conditions than the school philosophy on paper.
What about "cooperative interactive learning"? From our children's brief experience at Swiss gymnasium, this was a foreign concept. I may not be an insider, but from our 15 years of experience these expectations go beyond the IB or AP programs. So, yes a different philosophy of education, or at least a different execution thereof.

Additionally, unless it has changed, the Swiss primary school teacher is expected to be a one-in-all educator. They provide the academics, as well as the art, music and sport. The children stay with this singular teacher for at least two years. Even in the best of situations, this could be potentially challenging. Whereas, the international school often provide specislists in all these areas, so the child not only has access to real art, music and sport teachers, but have the benefit of several techers' influence.

However, as with all things, there is no perfection. There are choices, and if the OP would like to have information, it is good to hear from many people, with local and international experience.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 24.06.2012, 18:11
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tell me all about International Schooling! :) Good/ Bad and all in between

I agree that learning German in Switzerland is a challenge. For children, learning the dialect is however a huge step, they experience what other Swiss children experience: one know dialect but recognize meaning in the written language. Some get good at it, others only go so far. It's not any different in some places of England where spoken language is "exotic" to exchange students. Same with German in some places in Germany, Norwegian anywhere outside Oslo, Italian outside Toscana, Dutch in Belgium or Limburg/Groningen/Drenthe, Japanese, Chinese outside northern cities etc. Russian is one of the few language with close to no dialect differences despite the huge area covered.

For cooperative interactive learning, I'll try to stay diplomatic, but I can't promises I'll only say what people want to hear:

On one side, yes, absolutely, academics in Swiss gymnasium is seen as linked with high abstraction, learning by authority and using creativity to show a bit off what one can. But I am not sure that an excellent student in international school does differently. With a high proportion of inductive learning and project based or port folio based assessments, you only get so far in pure academic knowledge. You can learn anything by self discovering inductive learning, but it takes three times as much time. In order to have a certain quantity of knowledge, Swiss gymnasium does keep inductive learning to a controlled level that some people/parents/students/teachers find to low. That compromise does not make everybody happy. Totally agree. But the rational behind it is not totally stupid when students are sent to university and can deal with abstraction, auctorial teaching and lectures. The balance is hard to find and we won't all agree on that.

On the other side, I totally agree that Montessori and Steiner do take it as far as they can in that direction: some students blossom there, when they were desperate cases in Gymnasium or late primary. Totally agree too. But there is no Montessori university and no Steiner university as far as I know... logically.

In between, anything is possible. If you have the feeling that international schools are more likely to use inductive learning, I don't doubt it. But remember that there are only one kind of international school and three kinds of Swiss schools, the international schools do it more because they need it more. I am just saying that this dosage/balance is different from place to place, from teacher to teacher, from age level to age level and even from class to class (I had this year one class where students needed more time through inductive activities in order to get what i had to teach them, unusual but it's my job to recognize it. Other classes manage well without too much of it. The one class had more preparation work before the lesson, the other class more transfer work after).
__________________
Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Faltrad for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 26.06.2012, 01:26
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 3,608
Groaned at 21 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 3,256 Times in 1,711 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tell me all about International Schooling! :) Good/ Bad and all in between

Quote:
View Post
(Oxford and Skidmore..top grades)
Wow, Skidmore, all I can say it is a small world.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 26.06.2012, 12:14
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Lonely Tourist has no particular reputation at present
Re: Tell me all about International Schooling! :) Good/ Bad and all in between

Although I do not have children many colleagues use both local and international schools and I am interested in what the future may hold for my family.

Perceptions seem mixed both ways, mainly due to reality not lining up with pre-conceived views of what education should be about.

Local schools can work, but go in with your eyes open, the system is culturally and organisationally different, but this does not imply anything about quality. It will not change for you, it is what it is.

Go to both, find out, see how it feels. (Although the local school may not be willing to allow you in for a visit!).

Bi-lingual schools seem to mean something different to each person and they are all different (and usually based on a French / Swiss curriculum), remember its not all about language, its about a good acadmeic preparation for the child in a language.

Dont just look at Geneva, I have two friends at La Côte International School and they love it there, much smaller and more personalised than some of the bigger options, please excuse me, this is my colleagues view, I cannot say either way.

Definitely go to a few a see what you think / feel
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 26.06.2012, 12:20
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tell me all about International Schooling! :) Good/ Bad and all in between

Quote:
View Post
My guess is that the jargon above is known under usual words elsewhere and that they probably are doing a good job, like any other place that puts some thinking into the teaching.
I am quite optimistic about this, private or public, remember that the teachers all get their training the same places...
true, but the need to disguise normal stuff with jargon words can often hint at dishonesty or insecurity. Why else would you need to confuse?

Would you have somebody who is dishonest or insecure teach your child their lifelong holistic skills of eternal learning and undending self improvement?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 26.06.2012, 14:49
SignLanguageMama's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Schaffhausen
Posts: 104
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 162 Times in 66 Posts
SignLanguageMama is considered knowledgeableSignLanguageMama is considered knowledgeableSignLanguageMama is considered knowledgeable
Re: Tell me all about International Schooling! :) Good/ Bad and all in between

We moved to Switzerland from the US in February with our kids, ages 6 and 4, and with the understanding that we would only be here for 3 years. We opted to put our oldest at the International School, not because we thought that the education there was better than at the local school, but because we felt it fit our child's personality better (smart as a whip, creative, curious, and very friendly/outgoing, but entirely too hard on himself when he doesn't grasp what is going on quickly--like talking in a foreign language). This is our child that, when we talked with him about attending local schools and told him he was SO lucky that he would get to learn a new language and make so many local friends, worked himself into such a stressed-out state that he was physically ill. For him, the International School has been terrific, with a little bit of extra academic support from us.*

Our youngest child will be starting local kindergarten in the fall and we have absolutely no qualms about it--again, because we feel it fits his personality. He's a take-no-prisoners kid, very outgoing, and not afraid to make mistakes. After attending the Meet the Teacher event at our local kindergarten and watching him interact with the other kids and the teachers with virtually no knowledge of German/Swiss German, we know we've made the right choice for him as well.

*I was a teacher back home and am well aware of what our children's peers are learning, and what standardized state tests they'll be expected to be prepared for and pass when we return to the US. With that knowledge, I feel that the International School may not be hitting all of the academic points in the same grade level that the kids in FL are learning. So I make sure to supplement the International School curriculum at home by following the grade-appropriate rubric of the FL educational system. It doesn't take much to tweak what he's currently learning to make sure that he'll be ready to slip right back into the US school system when we return in a few years.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 26.06.2012, 15:33
mim's Avatar
mim mim is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ch
Posts: 67
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 38 Times in 11 Posts
mim has no particular reputation at present
Re: Tell me all about International Schooling! :) Good/ Bad and all in between

All our three children attend an international bilingual school, haut-lac, in vevey. Our son, completed the IB and received a scholarship to all the universities he applied for in the states..he is off in september to study engineering in New York. our daughter will be in her last year of schooling as from this September and our youngest will be moving up into myp2. They have all enjoyed every single aspect of their school life. Beyond the academics, the school has opened their eyes to so many different cultures and beliefs. They have travelled to many different countries on field trips ( Morocco, Spain, England , France, Brussels) . The older two went on a habitat for humanity build in Macedonia and have also taken part in the international award.
They have taken on charity fundraising events for causes abroad and in the local community.
I have seen some of their friends move from Haut-lac to the local schools and apart from the academics being different ( I couldn't say harder or easier as the IB is in my opinion incomparable to the Swiss system) their friends have missed out on the diversity, tolerance, open mindedness and acceptance of different learning styles and abilities.. features that are so strong at the international school ( again, we have only experienced haut-lac so I can't speak for any other school ). Many of these friends seem to have lost the more outgoing and independent vibe that I see in the kids that study at haut-lac.
I feel that the international schools are for internationally minded people, if you plan to stay here in switzerland, then go local but if you want to give your child a broad minded education coupled with a deep understanding of who they are and what they can achieve and you can afford it...then go international!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 15.07.2012, 14:55
majawrangstadh's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 27
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
majawrangstadh has no particular reputation at present
Re: Tell me all about International Schooling! :) Good/ Bad and all in between

I just graduated from an international school with an International Baccalaureate Diploma. Incredibly challenging program, but looking back it was definitely worth it! The school itself (International School Basel) was great too, and the international atmosphere has taught me a lot that I'm sure I wouldn't have gotten from a non-international school. So I'm all for it. If you want to know more let me know!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
geneva, international school




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
All About Me; A girl from Nebraska Haley Baley Introductions 3 04.01.2011 05:37
Study: It's all about me, say today's generation Rustygraben International affairs/politics 9 31.05.2010 12:22
All day schooling in Germany RetiredInNH Family matters/health 2 20.01.2010 10:05
I've got LOVELY neighbours, and I want to tell you all about it! Guest General off-topic 16 10.08.2009 01:41
Yay, no more sucky gyms for me (thread about getting back in shape, all welcome)... Chuff Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 26 05.08.2009 06:59


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0