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Old 20.12.2012, 16:00
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

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DB: She didn't deserve that comment. What's up with you today?

Oh, she most certainly did. She drags religion into all sorts of irrelevant threads, usually as a rather weak attempt to have a poke at me.

If you dish it out, you've got to be prepared to take it back again.
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  #82  
Old 20.12.2012, 16:08
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

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Some advocate being generous to asylum seekers who have been threatening and violent, and say its fine if they break into property and steal

- and yet not to help a lady who is a neighbour and with children who are at school with one's own children.

What do most religions say about helping others who are less fortunate? The Good Samaritan story is just for the book then - irrelevant to everyday life?
Odile there is a fine line between being generous and being stupid. I,like most people I know, work hard for my money and wouldn't give 500 chufs to someone just because she shows up. Whether I know this person or not. Also, I am not religious, and if people believe that only 'religious people' are good, we are in trouble and we are discriminating, beng religious has nothing to do with being goor or bad, generous or cheap.
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Old 20.12.2012, 16:08
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

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Oh, she most certainly did. She drags religion into all sorts of irrelevant threads, usually as a rather weak attempt to have a poke at me.

If you dish it out, you've got to be prepared to take it back again.
May God bless your soul, brother.
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Old 20.12.2012, 16:14
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

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May God bless your soul, brother.
I'm not convinced he has one.

But being an atheist myself, I suppose that's not exactly an insult.
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Old 20.12.2012, 16:18
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

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I'm not convinced he has one.

But being an atheist myself, I suppose that's not exactly an insult.
Uncle Bertrand???
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  #86  
Old 20.12.2012, 16:56
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

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Don't give anything!

Common sense should prevail. What would you do if you we're in a similar situation? You would first approach your family or friends or a bank, but not a strange neighbour.

I would rather not help a genuine person with the risk of helping the scam artists. I've been scammed before (5 USD equivalent) and have learnt my lesson.

If anyone begged in the streets of UK, I would call the police because if they are genuine then the police would put them in touch with the relevant authorities to help them and if they are scammers then they would get caught out.

These small scams are negligible but has a serious consequences on the moral fibres of a person and can change a society. Therefore, should be punished harshly as a deterrent.
I wouldn't call it a scam. Sometimes people ask for help, wether it is to strangers via an agency, or actual strangers. If you have he financial ability to lend, and want to, you do.

You don't put poor and needy people thru public embarrassment because they asked for help. That is just sub human to do that to another person.

A scam would be trying to dupe you for cash under false pretenses. From what I see she didn't give some story at all. That she just needed it. How humiliating a thing it probably was just to ask her neighbor for money, someone she has to see everyday, and what to be responded, by her calling the police on her?

If we are going to be part of a society that takes care of it's own, it shouldn't be just by filing out a mound of papers or having a public humiliation by the authorities, to out "the poor one" of the neighborhood.

The thing is, on the con side of it, what happens if she is planning on moving at the end of the month, and doesn't have to see you ever again?

Personally I always give money(when it comes to charity or strangers), that I can part with, with expectations it might not ever come back to me, either in hand or in karma, but because someone asked for help. I feel fine with being a part of the human race.

There are people out there actively trying to rob people at gun point, or run scams that get themselves rich. But I will give you a small personal experience to tell you how I sleep at night with it...

A long time ago, I came to France, and thought I could live with my girlfriend, and work, just as immigrants do in the US without papers. As I was promised a contract and papers when I got there. I found out that I was actually going to be paid under the table, when I in the first place I was told I would have a work visa and the normal wages.

I was soon in the realization that I was there, without papers, and getting paid 80% less then promised and having nothing I could do about it. I left there and survived on what is basically 80 rappen a day. Or at the time of the French franc 5 franks per day.

I couldn't find work because I had no French skills, no papers, and stood out like a sore thumb. In these pre internet times I had almost no ability, on the money I had left in my pocket to call anyone for help. And was at a time when there was no dialog with my family as well.

The most poorest and humble of the working class there are the produce markets. They barely make anything, and have very little to spare.

I never begged, never stole from anyone. But spent considerable amounts of time walking around, getting doors slammed in my face, and barely surviving. But the one thing I learned about where I lived, with as bad of a reputation as it has even in it's own country, you can never starve if you are honest.

I would go into small shops, and buy 1 egg, or two potatoes, or ask if I could keep the green onions they would cut from the white onions and throw away, one slice of cold cuts, and so on. Shop owners or fish mongers, would never allow me to leave without taking a full bag of potatoes, or carrots, or anything.

I could speak almost no words at all, and people who had nothing to gain from me, gave me enough to survive on. I felt great embarrassment when shop keepers insisted I not go without taking more. These people never even knew my name, nor did it matter. I can't imagine how terrible I would feel if I asked for something extra and had the police called on me. I would never be able to show my face there again.

My point is this...if your fellow human being needs help, if you can, you should. And there shouldn't need to be a checklist that goes along with if the need is great to justify your money. Your conscience should be enough. Who knows when you might find yourself needing the help of others.
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Old 20.12.2012, 17:17
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

The teachings of Christianity are totally relevant to this thread- as we live in a predominantly Christian country which advocates helping those in need (as do most if not all other religions). One of the reasons many are turning away from traditional Churches is that it is often a case of 'do as I say, not as I do' And I'd say especially relevant at Christmas time.
I saw a Priest yesterday, and he talked about the very thing to the group of people present, the elderly having Christmas dinner and where we were serving the meal.

Angela, agreed about not being stupid - which is why I said i would make very discreet enquiries to try and ascertain whether this lady makes a habit of this and what the background is (which i understand would be difficult for the OP to do). And I wouldn't give the money to her, but agree on terms for a zero interest loan until she can re-pay.

Last edited by Odile; 20.12.2012 at 17:42.
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Old 20.12.2012, 17:55
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

Odile, Christianity has nothing to do with it if OP is not Christian, and even if he is I am not going to judge him...which I am pretty sure is also a Christian teaching.
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Old 20.12.2012, 18:03
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

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Odile, Christianity has nothing to do with it if OP is not Christian, and even if he is I am not going to judge him...which I am pretty sure is also a Christian teaching.
I think her point was, since we are discussing this as something to do with Switzerland, and that it is predominantly Christian country, something should be addressed to why there is or is not compassion. Or living up to Christian morals. Some of you guys make way far flung comments on threads just to sound cheeky but neither gives or takes anything from the conversation.
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Old 20.12.2012, 18:08
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

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The world is full of really quite nasty people.
Yep, and a few of them are here on EF judging by some of the posts on this thread.

Funny how the thanks/groan names on certain posts speak volumes too, isn't it?



(not aimed at you at all btw, DB - I'm just hi-jacking your post for my own point scoring exercise, you understand )
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Old 20.12.2012, 18:35
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

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I think her point was, since we are discussing this as something to do with Switzerland, and that it is predominantly Christian country, something should be addressed to why there is or is not compassion. Or living up to Christian morals. Some of you guys make way far flung comments on threads just to sound cheeky but neither gives or takes anything from the conversation.
Which takes me again to a very OT point, goodness or badness, compassion or lack there of have very little to do with religion.
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Old 20.12.2012, 18:48
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

I'd hazard a guess that the OP might not be a Christian, and possibly finds all this moralising on the subject a bit embarrassing, if not downright offensive.

Switzerland might well be "a predominantly Christian country" but that doesn't mean that everyone who lives here is Christian, or that they should abide by Christian teaching.
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Old 20.12.2012, 18:53
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", or however that saying from the bible goes.

I would never impose myself upon my vaguely known neighbour for 500 Franks, I would wish that my vaguely known neighbour would never impose her/himself upon me in the same respect.

The assumption of the askee is massive and so off board I call bullshit.

How come the askee thinks it is alright to ask this almost unknown neighbour such a thing,,, honestly, pah! Why should the asked neighbour have to feel they have to even consider such a request!?

I have so often been asked for similar requests, it really is a burden and I truly dislike having to say no so often, but the fact is, I can't afford to help them, even if they think I am in a better position than they.

It's true, I may be in a better position than they consider themselves to be (or they are taking the piss, both equally valid points to note ), but they are imposing their will over mine, I resent that greatly.

A truly hateful spot for the OP to be in, truly hateful....
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Old 20.12.2012, 19:04
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

I often digress threads because I get all caught up in my thoughts, but this one I'd really like to keep on topic.

Can we forget religion please ?

1) Why do people allow themselves to judge another person just because they know one single element about that person (in this case poverty) ?
Some of the opinions have been very very harsh.

2) What if her approach was due to true despair ?
Maybe she doesn't have an income
Maybe she's unemployed and won't receive her money from the "arbeitsamt" until the book-keeping is done
Maybe her partner isn't there and she has no other means until he chips in
Maybe she can't bear to tell her children there will be no presents this year (and why don't presents for children qualify as a reason to give ?)

I wouldn't give 500 CHF either and I'd really have to think about the amount I'd want to give, but to me, shutting the door on a mom just doesn't seem right.

And it's just not fair to judge her or question her either.

Give or don't give, but who has the right to an opinion regarding another person's life just because they are vulnerable ?
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Old 20.12.2012, 19:16
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

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Which takes me again to a very OT point, goodness or badness, compassion or lack there of have very little to do with religion.
I think they have everything to do with religion.
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Old 20.12.2012, 19:17
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I think they have everything to do with religion.
And I think it doesn't so we just disagree and keep on...
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Old 20.12.2012, 19:19
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

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I'd hazard a guess that the OP might not be a Christian, and possibly finds all this moralising on the subject a bit embarrassing, if not downright offensive.

Switzerland might well be "a predominantly Christian country" but that doesn't mean that everyone who lives here is Christian, or that they should abide by Christian teaching.
Totally agree- my comment was not meant for the OP, but for those who profess to be Christian but seem to think that helping people in need is not relevant. All major religions agree btw, and so would most secular humanists. Compassion is thankfully universal.
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Old 20.12.2012, 19:19
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

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I'd hazard a guess that the OP might not be a Christian, and possibly finds all this moralising on the subject a bit embarrassing, if not downright offensive.

Switzerland might well be "a predominantly Christian country" but that doesn't mean that everyone who lives here is Christian, or that they should abide by Christian teaching.
I need to read more of the posts. But in any of the major religions, there is compassion for your fellow human beings in all of them. I agree that not everyone has to abide by Christian teaching. But it is an interesting point, which I don't see why it has to be closed off from this discussion.

Even if the OP is an atheist, morals don't exclude them either.
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Old 20.12.2012, 19:20
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

If someone I hardly know approaches me with a request for an enormous sum of money, then it's my absolute right to assess that person (or 'judge them', if you like) regarding the possibility that they might be trying it on.

I'll say it again: 500 CHF is an awful lot of money. I'd be pretty shocked if one of my friends asked for a loan that big, let alone some random woman I recognised from the school gates.

And as to the suggestion that one should make "discreet enquiries" with the neighbours: where I come from, that's called "gossiping".

Much kinder to refuse the request and tell nobody.
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Old 20.12.2012, 19:21
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Re: A lady came to my house to ask for money

Religion is not a mandatory requirement for compassion.
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