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  #141  
Old 29.03.2019, 12:24
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

Germany is discussing mandatory vaccinating as a hot topic at the moment.
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  #142  
Old 29.03.2019, 12:39
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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Germany is discussing mandatory vaccinating as a hot topic at the moment.
And some country—is it Italy?—has mandated vaccinations for all children who attend school.

At last, common sense has prevailed!
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  #143  
Old 29.03.2019, 12:45
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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And some country—is it Italy?—has mandated vaccinations for all children who attend school.

At last, common sense has prevailed!
Yes, it's Italy. And California seems to be toughening its stance, too.
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  #144  
Old 29.03.2019, 13:22
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

And Switzerland?
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  #145  
Old 29.03.2019, 13:27
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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And some country—is it Italy?—has mandated vaccinations for all children who attend school.

At last, common sense has prevailed!
I recalled that Belgium had some mandatory vaccinations and having to give the completed form in to the commune once they were done.
On closer inspection it seems that polio is the only one that is legally mandatory but I know some of the others were required for some crèches and schools.
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Old 29.03.2019, 14:38
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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And Switzerland?
Certainly not all of the usual/recommended vaccinations are mandatory—what else would you expect of a country where homeopathy is reimbursed under health insurance? I do not know if there are any mandatory vaccinations here; I think not.
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  #147  
Old 29.03.2019, 15:00
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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I recalled that Belgium had some mandatory vaccinations and having to give the completed form in to the commune once they were done.
On closer inspection it seems that polio is the only one that is legally mandatory but I know some of the others were required for some crèches and schools.
In Belgium or here?
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  #148  
Old 29.03.2019, 15:06
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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In Belgium or here?
Belgium.
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  #149  
Old 29.03.2019, 15:08
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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Belgium.
ah ok cause I didn't think they did here

I know they push certain vax here more than other countries, it's odd how different the lists can be.
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  #150  
Old 29.03.2019, 17:12
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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Certainly not all of the usual/recommended vaccinations are mandatory—what else would you expect of a country where homeopathy is reimbursed under health insurance? I do not know if there are any mandatory vaccinations here; I think not.
None. The Bundesrat can declare vaccinations mandatory when an epidemic or a pandemic is looming, for parts of the population (say, all employees in the medical sector) or for everybody.

How would you enforce general mandatory vaccinations? I don't see how this would be possible even for pupils, the right to free and adequate education ranks pretty high in the Constitution and removes the option of allowing only vaccinated pupils into your school, which is what Italy is doing if memory serves.
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Old 29.03.2019, 17:31
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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None. The Bundesrat can declare vaccinations mandatory when an epidemic or a pandemic is looming, for parts of the population (say, all employees in the medical sector) or for everybody.

How would you enforce general mandatory vaccinations? I don't see how this would be possible even for pupils, the right to free and adequate education ranks pretty high in the Constitution and removes the option of allowing only vaccinated pupils into your school, which is what Italy is doing if memory serves.
Many countries offer, sometimes as a right, free education, but I don't see why that should be inconsistent with mandatory vaccination. There's no reason why the right can't be conditional. Even continued citizenship is conditional upon meeting certain expectations, as some returning ISIS devotees are now finding out.
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  #152  
Old 29.03.2019, 17:40
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

While I'm the strongest advocate of vaccinations as a safe and effective method of keeping the population safe from easily preventable diseases, I'm a bit put off by an almost dystopian approach of mandatory vaccinations.

I think public health should be an important element of education along with an effort to clean up the damaging bad-science littering the internet and confusing parents. Everyone deserves their opinion but when it starts to tip in the direction of hysteria-based woo, there should be some safety measures available to curtail it.

I think I read either on here or on another site that the Italian approach also entailed fining parents of unvaccinated kids. Often hitting people in their pocket concentrates the mind somewhat.

If you ban kids from school for whatever reason you end up with another generation of hysterical-woo-believers and the cycle never ends.
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  #153  
Old 29.03.2019, 17:47
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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Many countries offer, sometimes as a right, free education, but I don't see why that should be inconsistent with mandatory vaccination. There's no reason why the right can't be conditional. Even continued citizenship is conditional upon meeting certain expectations, as some returning ISIS devotees are now finding out.
How do you enforce mandatory vaccination?
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  #154  
Old 29.03.2019, 17:49
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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How do you enforce mandatory vaccination?
Blow-pipe snipers from the roof-tops?
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  #155  
Old 29.03.2019, 17:53
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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Blow-pipe snipers from the roof-tops?
I was thinking of visits by the ImpfZwangDurchsetzungsPolizeiPatrouille at 4am.
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  #156  
Old 29.03.2019, 18:09
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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I was thinking of visits by the ImpfZwangDurchsetzungsPolizeiPatrouille at 4am.
https://i0.wp.com/kidocs.org/wp-cont...jpg-large.jpeg
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  #157  
Old 30.03.2019, 09:42
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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How do you enforce mandatory vaccination?
Seem to remember waaaaaaaay back in the swinging sixties we were all vaccinated at school by a guy in a white coat and something that looked like a cross between a stapler and the spray gun you use in a car body shop. We all lined up with rolled up sleeves and TAK, TAK, TAK, we got our.... "shots."
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  #158  
Old 30.03.2019, 10:21
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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Seem to remember waaaaaaaay back in the swinging sixties we were all vaccinated at school by a guy in a white coat and something that looked like a cross between a stapler and the spray gun you use in a car body shop. We all lined up with rolled up sleeves and TAK, TAK, TAK, we got our.... "shots."
I think that was probably the TB skin test or Mantoux test as it is often called.

https://www.medicinenet.com/tubercul...kin_test_facts

I remember that at school too, those of us who didn’t react had to have the vaccination a few days later. Our parents did have to sign a consent form first, though. I hated my mother for agreeing to it as I was shit scared of needles at the time.
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Old 30.03.2019, 10:31
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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Seem to remember waaaaaaaay back in the swinging sixties we were all vaccinated at school by a guy in a white coat and something that looked like a cross between a stapler and the spray gun you use in a car body shop. We all lined up with rolled up sleeves and TAK, TAK, TAK, we got our.... "shots."
Yup, similar here although I don't remember being tackered. I also remember two occasions where I was vaccinated by our house doc, could have been the flu though. Perhaps I should ask Mom.

Anyways, that's why I mentioned pupils, everybody (less 2k homeschooled kids, I'd wager significant amounts that anti-vaccers are far overrepresented among them) goes to school so that's where you could grab them. But what do you do if the parents refuse? The right to personal integrity is one of the highest-rankig rights there are, if not the hightest-ranking.

And of course that's kids only. How do you enforce it among grownups?
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Old 30.03.2019, 11:03
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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Anyways, that's why I mentioned pupils, everybody ... goes to school so that's where you could grab them. But what do you do if the parents refuse?
Based upon my own experience, I'm in two minds about this approach.

As I've said previously in this thread, as a kid, I wasn't allowed to have vaccinations after having violent reactions to the innoculations babies are given. The Rubella vaccinaton was administered to girls in my school in year 9, and I was excluded. In year 10, I was taken from class to the nurse's office for the Rubella vaccination. I refused the vaccination and demanded that they speak to my mum or my family doctor. Turned out that there was a girl in year 9 with the exact same name as me who was absent on the day of her scheduled vaccination, so they 'assumed' that I was the person who should receive it. That was a narrow escape from god knows what.

To give a little perspective, I have a allergy to a group of chemicals, which isn't rare, and the worst effect of it is that I'm still allergic to general anaesthetic. Just in my old office of 105 people, two of us were declared to the medical officer as having this allergy.

There are pre-tests available, where a doctor can properly asses if an individual will react badly to various vaccines, and it's only the cost that prevents this pre-testing being rolled out. I would hope that such a test could go a long way to allaying the fears of the anti-vaxxers, and we (the herd) can move forward whilst also protecting those who cannot (for many clinically defined reasons) be vaccinated themselves.
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