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  #161  
Old 30.03.2019, 10:07
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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Yup, similar here although I don't remember being tackered. I also remember two occasions where I was vaccinated by our house doc, could have been the flu though. Perhaps I should ask Mom.

Anyways, that's why I mentioned pupils, everybody (less 2k homeschooled kids, I'd wager significant amounts that anti-vaccers are far overrepresented among them) goes to school so that's where you could grab them. But what do you do if the parents refuse? The right to personal integrity is one of the highest-rankig rights there are, if not the hightest-ranking.

And of course that's kids only. How do you enforce it among grownups?
Well I was vacc´ed, I am still alive, I think. But that was the sixties UK for you, personal integrity was not high on the list of the "we-are-living-in-the-future" way of thinking of that time. Can you imagine telling a doctor from 1966 that in the future people would refuse to vaccinate because of an irrational fear of vaccines?
How to enforce vaccinating grownups? No idea, you can´t vaccinate against stupid.
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  #162  
Old 30.03.2019, 18:26
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

I think vaccines are the victim of their own success. I bet if people had seen the consequences of what used to be common diseases in real life, all to often with crippling or even lethal outcome, they'd beg on their knees to get protection.

Science and technology in all their forms are taken for granted these days.
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  #163  
Old 29.04.2019, 08:36
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

I’m hearing that those (now) adults who had a single jab in the 60s/70s may not be (as) immune as they think.

I wasn’t jabbed myself as I had measles and rubella and a few other childhood diseases.

Is it likely that I am still immune?
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  #164  
Old 29.04.2019, 09:08
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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I’m hearing that those (now) adults who had a single jab in the 60s/70s may not be (as) immune as they think.

I wasn’t jabbed myself as I had measles and rubella and a few other childhood diseases.

Is it likely that I am still immune?
The only way to tell reliably is to have an antibody titer, I think. I had all the diseases in the 1960‘s and had a titer done in 1998, and my immunity was fine, but now that i‘m older and have had some chronic disease stuff, i‘m going to ask my doctor if I should be vaccinated or at least do a titer.

I‘m also going to ask about a shingles vaccine since that‘s fairly common in old bats. And hey, I qualify for a senior GA, so I guess I am officially an Old Bat.
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  #165  
Old 29.04.2019, 13:59
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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I‘m also going to ask about a shingles vaccine since that‘s fairly common in old bats. And hey, I qualify for a senior GA, so I guess I am officially an Old Bat.
I was reading up about this last night because of problems my mother-in-law has had with Postherpetic neuralgia (PHN) for the last 9yrs, since developing shingles when she was 81. Apparently, the shingles vaccine is offered to everyone between 70 and 80 in the UK, but not to the over 80s.

After seeing the endless pain my mother-in-law endures with PHN, I'll be grabbing that vaccine with both hands when I reach that level of old bat. We're currently investigating the availability of CBD patches for her, as she suffered too badly with side effects from the two main treatments, for them to worth continuing with.
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  #166  
Old 08.05.2019, 11:32
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

It seems (if The Local is to be believed) that there's a political push for compulsory vaccination in Switzerland, motivated by recent outbreaks of measles.

It can't come too soon. If it's mandatory to protect yourself by wearing a helmet on a motorcycle, I see no reason why children shouldn't be compulsorily protected against diseases if they're going to mingle with other children in higher-risk areas such as schools.
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  #167  
Old 08.05.2019, 11:48
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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It seems (if The Local is to be believed) that there's a political push for compulsory vaccination in Switzerland, motivated by recent outbreaks of measles.
.
It's in the Swiss newspapers too.

It seems there are politicians on both the left and the right who don't really understand the issues.

If they are unable to (as are a few Swiss voters on this forum), I hope it doesn't go to a referendum.

They can't seem to understand that not getting your child immunized can mean that children with, for example, a suppressed immune system or otherwise unable to get vaccinated could get seriously ill or die due to your decision not to get your own children immunized.
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  #168  
Old 08.05.2019, 11:58
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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It's in the Swiss newspapers too.

It seems there are politicians on both the left and the right who don't really understand the issues.

If they are unable to (as are a few Swiss voters on this forum), I hope it doesn't go to a referendum.

They can't seem to understand that not getting your child immunized can mean that children with, for example, a suppressed immune system or otherwise unable to get vaccinated could get seriously ill or die due to your decision not to get your own children immunized.
It's not exactly a problem unique to Switzerland, is it? There are mentalists everywhere that think vaccinations are bad.

In principle it makes sense to push for compulsory vaccinations for kids but one bit of me is a bit uncomfortable with the state "forcing" stuff onto people, especially where kids are involved and medication of all things. I suspect others will feel the same, which is understandable and, again, not a uniquely Swiss thing. I can imagine any nationality getting arsey if they're told what to do with their kids by the state.

The most effective way of increasing uptake of vaccinations is to tackle the utterly unfettered bollocks online. That is the singularly worst culprit for killing the argument for vaccinations.
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  #169  
Old 08.05.2019, 12:41
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

I'm an 32 and I was vaccinated, when I was a child. Last week I've done a blood test last week and got a confirmation that my antibodies for measles are gone. I have to do a new vaccine.
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  #170  
Old 08.05.2019, 13:21
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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It's in the Swiss newspapers too.

It seems there are politicians on both the left and the right who don't really understand the issues.

If they are unable to (as are a few Swiss voters on this forum), I hope it doesn't go to a referendum.

They can't seem to understand that not getting your child immunized can mean that children with, for example, a suppressed immune system or otherwise unable to get vaccinated could get seriously ill or die due to your decision not to get your own children immunized.

I think that it would actually be great if there would be a referendum about such vaccinations, as it would give a much stronger mandate.
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  #171  
Old 08.05.2019, 14:14
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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It's not exactly a problem unique to Switzerland, is it? There are mentalists everywhere that think vaccinations are bad.
The big difference is that here, the people would probably hold a referendum to make that decision.

In other countries, it would be made by a government advised by healthcare professionals (not fool-proof granted)

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The most effective way of increasing uptake of vaccinations is to tackle the utterly unfettered bollocks online. That is the singularly worst culprit for killing the argument for vaccinations.
I know a few people here adamantly against immunisation here who don't exactly understand the concept of 'online'.

Misinformation is passed the old-fashioned way - over a cup of coffee.
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Old 08.05.2019, 14:26
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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The big difference is that here, the people would probably hold a referendum to make that decision.
Yes, probably it would. You know there is a possibility that people who are pro-vaccination and have fully vaccinated kids would be AGAINST forced vaccination. Like me, for instance.

Education, persuasion and maybe restricted access to playgroups and nurseries, etc., sure, but state-enforced meds? Nah.


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I know a few people here adamantly against immunisation here who don't exactly understand the concept of 'online'.

Misinformation is passed the old-fashioned way - over a cup of coffee.
I don't know anyone like that (that's allowed to vote here, anyway).
Anecdotes are anecdotes.

You know people who have kids of vaccination age that don't know what "online" is? Wow! That's a tough one to swallow.
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  #173  
Old 08.05.2019, 14:38
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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Yes, probably it would. You know there is a possibility that people who are pro-vaccination and have fully vaccinated kids would be AGAINST forced vaccination. Like me, for instance.

Education, persuasion and maybe restricted access to playgroups and nurseries, etc., sure, but state-enforced meds? Nah.
We got rid of smallpox years ago. Why the hell have we still got people dying of measles or measles-related illnesses.

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I don't know anyone like that (that's allowed to vote here, anyway).
Anecdotes are anecdotes.

You know people who have kids of vaccination age that don't know what "online" is? Wow! That's a tough one to swallow.
That's a bit rude. Are you insinuating that I am a liar?

Yes, there are people like that here, there and everywhere.

I know of women here who's husbands don't let them have Facebook accounts, for example.
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  #174  
Old 08.05.2019, 14:48
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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We got rid of smallpox years ago. Why the hell have we still got people dying of measles or measles-related illnesses.
Because of people like Andrew Wakefield, et al.

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That's a bit rude. Are you insinuating that I am a liar?
I wasn't aware I was insinuating you were a liar. I was just pointing out that anecdotes don't really prove anything.

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Yes, there are people like that here, there and everywhere.

I know of women here whose husbands don't let them have Facebook accounts, for example.
However, I'm always a bit suspicious of the "I know people with this extreme behaviour which conveniently proves my point" kind of stories but, hey, your story your rules.

I only seem to know women here in normal non-dysfunctional relationships whose husbands aren't petty enough to micromanage their lives but, again, that's just anecdotal so doesn't count.
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  #175  
Old 08.05.2019, 14:53
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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However, I'm always a bit suspicious of the "I know people with this extreme behaviour which conveniently proves my point" kind of stories but, hey, your story your rules.

I only seem to know women here in normal non-dysfunctional relationships whose husbands aren't petty enough to micromanage their lives but, again, that's just anecdotal so doesn't count.
You're being rude again.

It's not anecdotal. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Why do you always insist on 'point-scoring' in your posts to me? Can't you manage more grown-up arguments to back up your posts?
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Old 08.05.2019, 15:01
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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You're being rude again.

It's not anecdotal. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Why do you always insist on 'point-scoring' in your posts to me? Can't you manage more grown-up arguments to back up your posts?
How do you define anecdotal, Tom? Seriously, google it. It's an unsubstantiated story which has personally been witnessed by the teller or writer. That is what you are doing.

Calling you out on it is not "rude", nor is disagreeing. I can manage to disagree with you without all the histrionics and groaning.

I'm not trying to "point-score". I think you are wrong in many of your posts and will tell you so. If you can't take that, perhaps you shouldn't be on a public forum.

I disagree with mandatory vaccinations, preferring a more reasonable approach of killing the bad science available to people (whether it's in the mysterious "online" or over a coffee or on the telly or on the bus), education and discouraging/restricting non-vaccinated kids from group scenarios such as playgroups and nurseries.

I can't say I know any parents with the same weird attitude as you know, so can't really agree that it's a valid point as regards forcing vaccinations.
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  #177  
Old 08.05.2019, 15:16
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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How do you define anecdotal, Tom? Seriously, google it. It's an unsubstantiated story which has personally been witnessed by the teller or writer. That is what you are doing.

Calling you out on it is not "rude", nor is disagreeing. I can manage to disagree with you without all the histrionics and groaning.

I'm not trying to "point-score". I think you are wrong in many of your posts and will tell you so. If you can't take that, perhaps you shouldn't be on a public forum.

I disagree with mandatory vaccinations, preferring a more reasonable approach of killing the bad science available to people (whether it's in the mysterious "online" or over a coffee or on the telly or on the bus), education and discouraging/restricting non-vaccinated kids from group scenarios such as playgroups and nurseries.

I can't say I know any parents with the same weird attitude as you know, so can't really agree that it's a valid point as regards forcing vaccinations.
Please point out where in my posts I said I was in favour of 'forced vaccination' (this is apparently one of my arguments that you disagree with)?

Of all the people I have talked to here who are anti-immunization (and who are Swiss), none of them have heard of Andrew Wakefield (you mentioned him in your post).

You may have a lovely little group of friends where everything is lovely but if you don't believe there is coercion and other manipulation between spouses, friends and so on then that really isn't my fault.

BLP's thread on how her husband is treating her (I appreciate we have only heard one side of the story) is nothing compared to what some people have to go through.

There really are lots of people how don't have an online presence. Even some businesses barely have a website which is pretty extraordinary in this day.
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  #178  
Old 08.05.2019, 15:17
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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It's not anecdotal. Why is that so difficult to understand?
It is pretty much the dictionary definition of anecdotal.
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  #179  
Old 08.05.2019, 15:21
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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Please point out where in my posts I said I was in favour of 'forced vaccination' (this is apparently one of my arguments that you disagree with)?
So what exactly are you saying? Your posts certainly imply that you are in favour of forced vaccination to me.
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Old 08.05.2019, 15:28
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Re: Are you vaccinated against measles?

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Please point out where in my posts I said I was in favour of 'forced vaccination' (this is apparently one of my arguments that you disagree with)?
So you're not, then? Fine. We're on the same page...

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Of all the people I have talked to here who are anti-immunization (and who are Swiss), none of them have heard of Andrew Wakefield (you mentioned him in your post).
So? You asked me why people are dying of measles. I said because of Andrew Wakefield ET AL (it means "and others" so if that's the lady with the coffee cup then so be it...)

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You may have a lovely little group of friends where everything is lovely but if you don't believe there is coercion and other manipulation between spouses, friends and so on then that really isn't my fault.
Just got normal friends that aren't arseholes. Seems I'm in the minority...

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BLP's thread on how her husband is treating her (I appreciate we have only heard one side of the story) is nothing compared to what some people have to go through.
Full sympathy for her but it's not relevant to vaccinations.

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There really are lots of people how don't have an online presence. Even some businesses barely have a website which is pretty extraordinary in this day.
Not really. The tailors shop round the corner from me has been run for a billion years by an old bloke who still works with a clunky cash register. Drives a massive Beemer - business doesn't really need a website. Not relevant to vaccinations, though...
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