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Old 22.08.2013, 14:32
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French frontalier insurance

Hi

I have just been told by my colleagues that potentially and most likely next year the French are changing the system for frontaliers health insurance and making us take the French social health insurance instead, which will mean a huge dent in our salaries of between 7-16% from what I understand. I already took a 10% pay cut from my company due to the crisis, so i cannot afford any more.

I cannot support this as my salary isn't fab, and as a single mother, I must now consider my options.

Where would be the most beneficial place to move to, should this be the case if this change goes ahead? Germany or Switzerland - I live near Basel, so both are an option.

I have a 6 year old daughter, and I am a single parent. Do any of you know where I can get the information or maybe you know already tax benefits or breaks you get for being a single parent?

Childcare in either Germany or Switzerland, which is better? Could my kid stay at school in France? I'm a bit stuck.
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Old 22.08.2013, 15:41
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Re: French frontalier insurance

Move to Switzerland or Germany or if you want to stay in Alsace, you should opt for LAMal if you want good medical coverage in Basle's excellent medical facilities. FYI care in Basle or Southern Ba-Wü is much better than anything you can get in Haut-Rhin.

In all situations be ready to pay more for your health coverage.

The truth is that Bercy is increasing the pressure on frontaliers working in CH and things will get worse and worse for them. A lot of Swiss citizens are beginning to sell their properties in France voisine and moving back to CH. France is in desperate need of money and the budgetary hurdles is persisting while Bercy's coffers remain empty. French economic misery is deepening while unemployment keeps going up. The very sick French economy cannot compete with other European's much more dynamic and prosperous economies (Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Benelux, Scandinavia... ). French industry is crippled by lack of innovation, investment and bad government policies, and I highly doubt the French economy will recover any time soon (if ever)...

No, your children cannot go to French public school in case you move to D or CH.

Last edited by Ramtin[e]; 22.08.2013 at 15:57. Reason: Add-on
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Old 22.08.2013, 16:08
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Re: French frontalier insurance

Wow, doom and gloom, but I can see the same.....that is why I will start looking for a contingency plan.
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Old 26.09.2013, 11:32
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Re: French frontalier insurance

Game over for cheap health insurance:

http://www.tdg.ch/geneve/france-vois...story/21965778

Which also means no access to swiss doctors or hospitals...
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Old 26.09.2013, 12:12
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Re: French frontalier insurance

As I have said before, frontaliers had a special deal compared to all other inhabitants of France. That deal is now being terminated. I have been in the French State system since 2007, when everyone was originally supposed to move. I pay 8% of my net salary, same for everyone, I believe.

Admittedly, I live in one of France's most dynamic and prosperous regions, but I do not get any of the doom and gloom feel that those who only read the financial pages and the Economist enjoy expressing.

France's public sector is too big. It has too few middle sized companies. And surely many other problems, but neither the UK or Germany are in good positions either, to name two. And I certainly know where I get the best quality of life.
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Old 26.09.2013, 12:32
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Re: French frontalier insurance

Sorry, probably a silly quesion but does this mean that those of us with French insurance that currently covers basic medcial fees in Basel will no longer have access to this?

Our daughterr was recently quite sick and we attended our paediatrican in Basel and then the Kinderspital. Both were exceptional and of course spoke excellent English to us (I can speak German bt my husband can't).

I have been to the hospitals here in France, namely Altkirch and the polyclinique in St Louis, in my opinion neither of them are a patch on the Basel ones.

What a pain if this is true!
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Old 26.09.2013, 12:58
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Re: French frontalier insurance

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I pay 8% of my net salary, same for everyone, I believe.
I thought I heard a figure of 11% of salary being stated in the press, etc.. perhaps they got it wrong though.
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Old 26.09.2013, 14:35
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Re: French frontalier insurance

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As I have said before, frontaliers had a special deal compared to all other inhabitants of France. That deal is now being terminated. I have been in the French State system since 2007, when everyone was originally supposed to move. I pay 8% of my net salary, same for everyone, I believe.

Admittedly, I live in one of France's most dynamic and prosperous regions, but I do not get any of the doom and gloom feel that those who only read the financial pages and the Economist enjoy expressing.

France's public sector is too big. It has too few middle sized companies. And surely many other problems, but neither the UK or Germany are in good positions either, to name two. And I certainly know where I get the best quality of life.
This is today's best post! I couldn't agree more with you!
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Old 26.09.2013, 15:27
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Re: French frontalier insurance

this is all very interesting. There's one thing which isn't clear to me though. Will we have the choice to go with Lamal after the change, or do we have to move to Lamal before then (if we want to avoid being only in the French system). Can anyone shed any light on this?
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Old 26.09.2013, 15:44
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Re: French frontalier insurance

Seems to me and from the info my colleagues provide that the choice will not be ours and joining is compulsory.
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Old 26.09.2013, 18:06
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Re: French frontalier insurance

As I remember it, and I'm being a wee bit lazy here, you get to make the call at the moment when French private insurance is no longer possible: either French state or Swiss LAMAL. Once you have made that choice it is irrevocable (that bit I'm certain of).
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Old 26.09.2013, 22:08
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Re: French frontalier insurance

Hi,

I was told that you cannot go back once you signed up for the french system, whether private or public. So unless you have a swiss Lamal insurance already NOW, you will be subject to the famous 8%.

No swiss cover included btw - that would need a separate complementary insurance which may be very, very expensive - easily 500EUR for 2 adults + 2 kids ... per month

Two frontalier colleagues are moving over the border into Switzerland as financially it doesn't pay off ... They are tired of increased taxes, but no infrastructure in the Gex area such as doctors & hospitals or public transport, and on top being insulted by Genevans when driving their french-plated cars
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Old 26.09.2013, 22:15
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Re: French frontalier insurance

Wooow it seems that you guys are going to give 270 millions € to french government with this new regulation.

@sedebu: Genevans insult all who are not from geneva undistinctive of country/canton plate
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Old 26.09.2013, 22:22
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Re: French frontalier insurance

It will be very interesting to see how many frontalier decide to move over to CH, due to the new insurance rules, combined with RAV/unemployment benefits limitations on French side. I live in a border area, and many French choose to live here, as flats and houses are very reasonable here, and they prefer the schools, infrastructure, health system and are fed up with spending hours commuting in frontaliers traffic. I was really surprised when I found this out. (nb in Geneva, frontaliers pay taxes in Switzerland anyway, whereas in other border areas, they pay tax in France, a small proportion behind paid back to the Swiss commune where they work by French Gov).

Last edited by Odile; 26.09.2013 at 22:35.
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Old 27.09.2013, 08:25
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Re: French frontalier insurance

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Hi,
Two frontalier colleagues are moving over the border into Switzerland as financially it doesn't pay off ... They are tired of increased taxes, but no infrastructure in the Gex area such as doctors & hospitals or public transport.
1) I would love to know which taxes they are referring to. Not income tax, that is paid in Switzerland. Property tax is not very heavy. The first 5,000€ (roughly) of unearned income goes tax-free. So ...
2) Pays de Gex has developed too fast with too little infrastructure. The main reason for that: the refusal of Geneva to allow development of its accomodation in step with its development needs. The second reason is the stupidity and/or corruption of the mayors in Gex who have let developers build houses everywhere without forcing through the putting in place of the corresponding infrastructure.
3) Geneva frontaliers might look in the mirror a little. They pay almost nothing into the local or state budget and then moan that there is not a good infrastructure.
4) IMHO, the main reason for becoming a Geneva frontalier is housing costs, especially if you want to buy a house. If the advantages of buying in France outweigh the disavantages then you move. If they do not, then you stay in Geneva. No need for grumpy polemics in either case .
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Old 27.09.2013, 08:33
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Re: French frontalier insurance

The Geneva frontaliers really do have the best of both worlds but this is not the case for other cantons.
Geneva has a special arrangement regarding taxes but for the other cantons as Odile has said the tax is paid in France and the French then pay a certain amount to the Swiss canton. For these frontaliers the advantages are not quite as clear cut as they are for those of you in Geneva.

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1) I would love to know which taxes they are referring to. Not income tax, that is paid in Switzerland. Property tax is not very heavy. The first 5,000€ (roughly) of unearned income goes tax-free. So ...
2) Pays de Gex has developed too fast with too little infrastructure. The main reason for that: the refusal of Geneva to allow development of its accomodation in step with its development needs. The second reason is the stupidity and/or corruption of the mayors in Gex who have let developers build houses everywhere without forcing through the putting in place of the corresponding infrastructure.
3) Geneva frontaliers might look in the mirror a little. They pay almost nothing into the local or state budget and then moan that there is not a good infrastructure.
4) IMHO, the main reason for becoming a Geneva frontalier is housing costs, especially if you want to buy a house. If the advantages of buying in France outweigh the disavantages then you move. If they do not, then you stay in Geneva. No need for grumpy polemics in either case .
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Old 01.10.2013, 08:44
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Re: French frontalier insurance

Hi,
Can anyone tell me what is the "fate" of those who had opted for the Swiss LaMAL system? Do these folks also need to switch over to the CMU? Or is it only people who were part of private insurance in France?
Thanks
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Old 05.06.2020, 09:57
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Re: French frontalier insurance

Very useful posts from 6-7 years ago. Has anything changed since then? If one is making the decision now whether to live in Geneva or Ferney, what are the main considerations? I'd be starting "from scratch", i.e. no pre-existing insurance or anything.


Is the tax arrangement still the same, i.e. that someone working in Geneva but living in Ferney would pay income tax in Switzerland?
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Old 05.06.2020, 10:24
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Re: French frontalier insurance

If you are non-Swiss and just arriving into the "system", you'll be with the French CMU / Social Security, which is 8% of your salary. For a small French salary that might be OK, but on a Swiss salary, it's going to make Swiss health insurance premiums look almost like a bargain!
If you're working in Geneva, you will be taxed at source and part of the taxes collected will be sent to Paris. If you're working anywhere else in Switzerland, you'll declare and pay your taxes directly in France.
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Old 05.06.2020, 11:27
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Re: French frontalier insurance

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If you are non-Swiss and just arriving into the "system", you'll be with the French CMU / Social Security, which is 8% of your salary. For a small French salary that might be OK, but on a Swiss salary, it's going to make Swiss health insurance premiums look almost like a bargain!
If you're working in Geneva, you will be taxed at source and part of the taxes collected will be sent to Paris. If you're working anywhere else in Switzerland, you'll declare and pay your taxes directly in France.
Just to add to this: you'll also want a "mutuelle" to top up your medical treatment. There's no free lunch. Expensive Mutuelles reimburse more/ give you more benefits (guaranteed single room in the hospital, for instance).

Some years ago there was a nasty rumour that the CMU would be going up to 14% . Don't know where we are on that as I'm not a frontalier any more.

Check the "Groupement de Frontaliers" for all imaginable information on the subject. Including low cost filling-in of your tax forms for you.
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