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  #21  
Old 21.01.2014, 10:36
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

If you think that schools are relaxed with safety, wait til you send your kids to Pfadi camp. It's a complete throwback to the 50's - 70's. My kids absolutely love it.
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  #22  
Old 21.01.2014, 10:46
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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I just bought a UK friend's 8 yr old a knife for Christmas. I made sure I asked her first, and he is a sensible kid..... but I did get some words from others about it!
How old has an British human being to be until he or she is allowed to use a pocket knife? When are they taught to use proper cutlery? What about scissors?
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  #23  
Old 21.01.2014, 11:14
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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The kids in my son's class (1st grade) are allowed to bring a pocket knife along when they have a forest morning (my UK-based family was mortified ).

So far none of the kids have managed to stab themselves or each other. Each is responsible for his or her knife and the knives have to stay in their school bags when they get back to school.

As a result my son is now perfectly safe handling a knife, knows how to carry it and can use it with fair dexterity.

His UK cousins have access to plastic knives in the school canteen. Nuff said...
Lucky kids. Iirc in elementary school we only had forks and spoons to use. And that was up to age 12! Didn't get knives in the school canteen until junior high.
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  #24  
Old 21.01.2014, 11:35
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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Lucky kids. Iirc in elementary school we only had forks and spoons to use. And that was up to age 12! Didn't get knives in the school canteen until junior high.
Huh? Surely at home you were allowed to eat properly, no?
I don't understand this attitude. The earlier children learn to deal with so called potential safety hazards the better they handle them and the less of a novelty they become.
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Old 21.01.2014, 11:39
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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Lucky kids. Iirc in elementary school we only had forks and spoons to use. And that was up to age 12! Didn't get knives in the school canteen until junior high.
I still remember my boy being all proud of being allowed to use an 'adult' knife at canteen at age 5
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  #26  
Old 21.01.2014, 11:41
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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Huh? Surely at home you were allowed to eat properly, no?
I don't understand this attitude. The earlier children learn to deal with so called potential safety hazards the better they handle them and the less of a novelty they become.
Yeah, I get your point. Meanwhile European children learn how to use their cutlery, the American children alread learn how to crawl with guns in their hands (in some families wild wild west).
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Old 21.01.2014, 11:42
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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Huh? Surely at home you were allowed to eat properly, no?
I don't understand this attitude. The earlier children learn to deal with so called potential safety hazards the better they handle them and the less of a novelty they become.
Exactly. My son has nicked himself with his pocket knife (it closed a bit quick on his finger) and he touched a red hot grill on the fire they had at forest morning giving him a blister and a new respect for all things sharp and hot.

If you don't let kids find out the dangers for themselves, all the pep talks are totally abstract.

This also has wider benefits because they understand what "danger" and the resulting "pain" can be if they lark about with stuff, which then gives them a better understanding of more serious "dangers" they really shouldn't experience.
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  #28  
Old 21.01.2014, 11:44
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

Best to send your kids to bed wearing their kevlar jackets, you never know who might stray into their 'hood during the night.

Always plan ahead and keep a spare clip of ammo under your pillow just in case.
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  #29  
Old 21.01.2014, 12:00
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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Yeah, I get your point. Meanwhile European children learn how to use their cutlery, the American children alread learn how to crawl with guns in their hands (in some families wild wild west).
... but at least these children can't cut themselves with dangerous cutlery
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  #30  
Old 21.01.2014, 12:05
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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Exactly. My son has nicked himself with his pocket knife (it closed a bit quick on his finger) and he touched a red hot grill on the fire they had at forest morning giving him a blister and a new respect for all things sharp and hot.

If you don't let kids find out the dangers for themselves, all the pep talks are totally abstract.

This also has wider benefits because they understand what "danger" and the resulting "pain" can be if they lark about with stuff, which then gives them a better understanding of more serious "dangers" they really shouldn't experience.
How should they know what pain they can inflict on somebody without knowing what pain is?
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  #31  
Old 21.01.2014, 12:15
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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This also has wider benefits because they understand what "danger" and the resulting "pain" can be if they lark about with stuff, which then gives them a better understanding of more serious "dangers" they really shouldn't experience.
Then you learn even more and faster. What doesn't kill you makes you stornger! Cliche that I find more and more relevant each day while working in corporate environment.

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  #32  
Old 21.01.2014, 12:20
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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Huh? Surely at home you were allowed to eat properly, no?
I don't understand this attitude. The earlier children learn to deal with so called potential safety hazards the better they handle them and the less of a novelty they become.
Yes, that was the silly thing about it really. I don't know of any kid who couldn't use a knife at the table when eating at home, yet not allowed to at school.
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  #33  
Old 21.01.2014, 12:23
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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What doesn't kill you makes you stornger! Cliche that I find more and more relevant each day while working in corporate environment.

Actually, that touches on another aspect.

In my humble opinion, kids that are allowed to be kids and get into trouble for doing naughty stuff, and who are allowed to get into fights and spats with their peer group equips them better when they hit adulthood.

If you've constantly had your battles fought for you either by parents intervening or the school making everyone shake hands and love each other, or you've never been in trouble for being a little b**tard , (petty theft or chucking snow balls at trains or cars, for example), you will probably have a harder time fathoming out cause and effect, or conflict resolution when you get older.
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  #34  
Old 21.01.2014, 12:26
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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Yes, that was the silly thing about it really. I don't know of any kid who couldn't use a knife at the table when eating at home, yet not allowed to at school.
Picnics, outdoors and team building events can help to learn how to use paper plates an plastic forks/knives. One must make sure though that they dont stumble over stones or hurt themselves with twigs. Learn to eat using hands while kneeling can also be a solution - very helpful in far eastern world. Why everything has to be narrowed down to thousands of years the western civilization was built on.
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  #35  
Old 21.01.2014, 12:30
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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Picnics, outdoors and team building events can help to learn how to use paper plates an plastic forks/knives. One must make sure though that they dont stumble over stones or hurt themselves with twigs. Learn to eat using hands while kneeling can also be a solution - very helpful in far eastern world.
Or, just give them everything in liquified form, through a straw, but be careful it's tepid or they might burn themselves.
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  #36  
Old 21.01.2014, 12:45
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

The rigid adherence to rules in adult age does not indicate more independence than other countries. I would worry about not giving enough specific type of attention, as opposed to pushing kids to be unattended in a silly age. It's easy to mock and laugh at worried parents, but maybe the core is somewhere else than a kid putting a coat on by herself at 3 or working a knife at 4 (both achieved, most kids do).

The same system that pushes kids to walk by themselves to school slows them down purposely in a class, when they are over average. Tells parents to not work with kids at home because they might be better than other kids. There are better ways to teach kids real independence than throw them into traffic. I am glad our school is quite reasonable with the push. But adjusted cognitive stimuli at a correct age, decent books for early age school programs, not so, unfortunately. The never ending plastic folders and poor quality copies, ugh.
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  #37  
Old 21.01.2014, 12:51
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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Lucky kids. Iirc in elementary school we only had forks and spoons to use. And that was up to age 12! Didn't get knives in the school canteen until junior high.
we gave our daughter a knife when she was 3 years old. you should have seen the eyes of my mother in law. she thought i was insane.

we never had a accident - and I still think that a fork is actually more dangerous than a knife.
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Old 21.01.2014, 12:53
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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The same system that pushes kids to walk by themselves to school slows them down purposely in a class, when they are over average.
This bonkers logic is backed up exactly how?

In schools around here, it is common that kids consistently showing above average abilities can be boosted up a year (provided they are mature enough to cope) in the same way an under achieving child is held back a year to shore up his or her learning.
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Old 21.01.2014, 16:53
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

Forcing a child to leave his social group to integrate (in all subjects and disciplines, mind you) with one year older kids is not what differentiating teaching is. It's lazy and zero investment. When classes are so small here.

Pushing a "trouble" away or a peg that does not fit into a colleague's class, where he/she will be pushed again towards the average, irrespectively of the whole science of cognitive and social skill acquisition, is inefficient and doesn't foster independence at all, the opposite. It creates people who do not want to risk, conform to rules and averages.

They do know how to jaywalk without being ran over, though, which they would learn anyways.
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  #40  
Old 21.01.2014, 17:07
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Re: Family safety in Switzerland

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Forcing a child to leave his social group to integrate (in all subjects and disciplines, mind you) with one year older kids is not what differentiating teaching is. It's lazy and zero investment. When classes are so small here.

Pushing a "trouble" away or a peg that does not fit into a colleague's class, where he/she will be pushed again towards the average, irrespectively of the whole science of cognitive and social skill acquisition, is inefficient and doesn't foster independence at all, the opposite. It creates people who do not want to risk, conform to rules and averages.

They do know how to jaywalk without being ran over, though, which they would learn anyways.
I think it is a little more thought out than that, but you probably know this..

I said they "can" be moved up a year. This is after consultation with the child and its parents and if they aren't mature enough in other ways they stay put.

Nobody is forced (but, again, you probably know that), and it is certainly not pushing a "trouble" child into a next class to become average. It's about recognising a child that needs and is ready for more of a challenge, not about pushing problem kids around to make them feel uncomfortable.

Is that really how you as a teacher thinks? I'm surprised... Laziness and zero-investment is found in schools which do not create opportunities and challenges for children who need it, no matter how small the number.

In my son's class there was a girl who was consistently over achieving in her work and her teacher proposed that she try out the next class up. Everyone agreed and the girl went up midway through the year. She is flourishing and apparently is performing excellently with the children in that year group.

Do you have the same attitude towards struggling children that need to be kept down a year or do you think they should be "forced" to continue to the next class just so they can keep with their buddies?
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